I grew up in the eastern suburbs, Box Hill actually. No pubs so we had to travel. The Fitzroy pubs were a no go for us when I played footy by order of the coach as I remember. We went east to such upstanding establishments such as the Burvale, the Blackburn, the Whitehorse and the Manhatten. Watered down beer and brawlers in the car park as I remember it. 0.05 when did that start? Somehow me and all of my footy team mates over 15 years managed to survive those days. Not just drink driving but also the punch ups between the Boxhill and Blackburn guys. Totally mindless stuff but I don't remember any ambulances being required. We were not as vicious back then as they can be today. Maybe we were jut wimps.

It's tough living in a dry area isn't it

It's tough living in a dry area isn't it

Is that why I now live in Fitzroy? there is a pub or bistro on every second corner. Not sure how they all make a quid but then that is why they all want 3 am licences.

Rob, I'll admit I thought of you when I heard about this - http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/chairman-jim-spigelman-defends-abc-against-attacks-announces-bias-audit-20131211-2z5gr.html

I understand you'll give it absolutely no weight unless the audit reveals 100% of programs and interviews are leftist hippy garbage, but at least they are making an effort in response to your criticisms.

Rob, I'll admit I thought of you when I heard about this - http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/chairman-jim-spigelman-defends-abc-against-attacks-announces-bias-audit-20131211-2z5gr.html

I understand you'll give it absolutely no weight unless the audit reveals 100% of programs and interviews are leftist hippy garbage, but at least they are making an effort in response to your criticisms.

Of course it will be fair and impartial, seriously, how old are you P_man?

I could get an unbiased impartial report done on the Murdoch press that would give me any answer I wanted.

The Chairman, allegedly asked the ALP for a seat at the last election but they turned him down.

Of course it will be fair and impartial, seriously, how old are you P_man?

I could get an unbiased impartial report done on the Murdoch press that would give me any answer I wanted.

The Chairman, allegedly asked the ALP for a seat at the last election but they turned him down.

You're way too easy to wind up champ.

You're way too easy to wind up champ.

Of course I am, and don't call me champ.

Of course I am, and don't call me champ.

Sorry chief.

Sorry chief.

Chief Champ or Champ Chief?

Abbott Government become toxic for the Australian Economy

Holden stop making cars in Australia in 2017

Under the Standards set by Abbott as opposition leader, this is the fault of the Government of the day.

Mr Abbott that is you!

??

only last year julia did a deal with holden where she announced publicly that holden's future in australia was safe for the next 10 years

was julia lying?

was holden lying?

??

only last year julia did a deal with holden where she announced publicly that holden's future in australia was safe for the next 10 years

was julia lying?

was holden lying?

Was Julias month moving at the time?

Was Julias month moving at the time?

I with you on a lot of stuff mate, but this one's over the line IMO.

I with you on a lot of stuff mate, but this one's over the line IMO.

Sorry Choke but I had no time or trust when it comes to Julia.

Once they lie, I lose all respect.

It gotten to a stage where they don't care if they get caught lying these days.

so you really blame the libs for ford leaving in 2017?

in that case

you must blame labor for mitsubishi and ford leaving?

seems to me to be a very narrow and partisan view which ignores the economic and business realities

Sorry Choke but I had no time or trust when it comes to Julia.

Once they lie, I lose all respect.

It gotten to a stage where they don't care if they get caught lying these days.

Ah you meant mouth! lol.

Typo was 'month', I thought it was a menstruation joke which I thought was in poor taste.

Jumped the gun, sorry.

so you really blame the libs for ford leaving in 2017?

in that case

you must blame labor for mitsubishi and ford leaving?

seems to me to be a very narrow and partisan view which ignores the economic and business realities

Agreed. The government is not ultimately accountable for this one.

Arguments about Hockey's rhetoric or withdrawal of funds don't alter the fact that this was inevitable. The automotive industry has been propped up for a long time, some might say too long. The ability to compete in a fragmented global market has diminished to the point where it is pretty much unsustainable. You would think it is only a matter of time until Toyota pulls the pin here as well.

so you really blame the libs for ford leaving in 2017?

in that case

you must blame labor for mitsubishi and ford leaving?

seems to me to be a very narrow and partisan view which ignores the economic and business realities

Agree its all their fault

But I want to hear how the Monk explains his latest failure!

Agree its all their fault

But I want to hear how the Monk explains his latest failure!

i'll just leave you to your delusions

jc couldn't have saved ford/mitsubishi/holden

this is not the issue to pick a fight with pollies

i'll just leave you to your delusions

jc couldn't have saved ford/mitsubishi/holden

this is not the issue to pick a fight with pollies

Keato would have crushed the Car companies earlier too.

I'm a right -winger on this issue-sink or swim you parasites-that includes miners digging our assets up for sweet FA.

In fact -much as Robbie thinks i am a Pinko for accepting the baby bonus from Costello ,I don't agree with govt assistance to anyone but the neediest .

Keato would have crushed the Car companies earlier too.

I'm a right -winger on this issue-sink or swim you parasites-that includes miners digging our assets up for sweet FA.

In fact -much as Robbie thinks i am a Pinko for accepting the baby bonus from Costello ,I don't agree with govt assistance to anyone but the neediest .

I for one are sorry to see the car makers go myself. I don't think I have interviewed or employed a young mechanical engineer over the past 20 years who hasn't cut their teeth at GMH or Ford. Where do they get their first university work experience or their first grad position now? The fact is kids will walk away from engineering because there are limited job opportunities. If they follow the market trends they will become financial advisors or lawyers, instead I suppose. That will add value to the national economy!

Victoria will feel the economic effects no doubt in the coming years. If we can't afford to prop GMH up well as you say Biff let's get some consistency so we can stop subsidising the mining companies with their diesel costs; nd we can stop giving industry assistance to the foreign multinational health funds via the private health rebate. This all adds up to several billion dollars that adds SFA to our exports or skill development. If you are going to do go down this track lets do it properly.

Of course the current LNP Government is a mix of hard economic dries, agrarian socialists, flat earth loonies and religious zealots that there is no way of predicting what decisions they may make except the ones to dismantle any former Labour policies. It will be interesting to see how Tony keeps this lot in check and how Big Joe deals with the very real prospect of an economic downturn at least in Victoria and SA when these manufacturing companies walk.

It would be great to see an industry strategy for the future so we have some confidence that there is a future for engineering and manufacturing in some form.

I for one are sorry to see the car makers go myself. I don't think I have interviewed or employed a young mechanical engineer over the past 20 years who hasn't cut their teeth at GMH or Ford. Where do they get their first university work experience or their first grad position now? The fact is kids will walk away from engineering because there are limited job opportunities. If they follow the market trends they will become financial advisors or lawyers, instead I suppose. That will add value to the national economy!

Victoria will feel the economic effects no doubt in the coming years. If we can't afford to prop GMH up well as you say Biff let's get some consistency so we can stop subsidising the mining companies with their diesel costs; nd we can stop giving industry assistance to the foreign multinational health funds via the private health rebate. This all adds up to several billion dollars that adds SFA to our exports or skill development. If you are going to do go down this track lets do it properly.

Of course the current LNP Government is a mix of hard economic dries, agrarian socialists, flat earth loonies and religious zealots that there is no way of predicting what decisions they may make except the ones to dismantle any former Labour policies. It will be interesting to see how Tony keeps this lot in check and how Big Joe deals with the very real prospect of an economic downturn at least in Victoria and SA when these manufacturing companies walk.

It would be great to see an industry strategy for the future so we have some confidence that there is a future for engineering and manufacturing in some form.

Your argument is of course correct .The loss of skill sets is essentially detrimental on the whole .

I was told a story about Japanese temple builders who constructed timber temples and burnt them every 25 years.

The point of the exercise was to maintain the passing down of essential skills to the next generation.

It makes no sense to manufacture in wealthy countries now.It makes little sense to support a multinational either(GMH)

We can still teach Engineering here.

It's an inevitable consequence of Chinese growth that our car industry is now closed.

The effects on the economy will not be good short term but let's not forget GMH is a private company-not our baby.

Ah you meant mouth! lol.

Typo was 'month', I thought it was a menstruation joke which I thought was in poor taste.

Jumped the gun, sorry.

Ouch LOL

Your argument is of course correct .The loss of skill sets is essentially detrimental on the whole .

I was told a story about Japanese temple builders who constructed timber temples and burnt them every 25 years.

The point of the exercise was to maintain the passing down of essential skills to the next generation.

It makes no sense to manufacture in wealthy countries now.It makes little sense to support a multinational either(GMH)

We can still teach Engineering here.

It's an inevitable consequence of Chinese growth that our car industry is now closed.

The effects on the economy will not be good short term but let's not forget GMH is a private company-not our baby.

I take on board your points but I still don't like to see one of our economic options go out the door for ever. For instance you cough up a few hundred million $ over the next five years and in that time the AUS $ drops to 80 cents US and we then have a seious export industry worth billions. Holdens to the the US and middle east, tnis happens now. This has happened in the past all dependent on the dollar. The high dollar had destroyed this industry more than some of the other factors that we know are working against the industry.

Is it a wise strategy to try to nurse the industry through to a lower dollar era when they can become competitive? I tend toward that strategy myself. The mining boom has caused much of this problem. A trillion invested to dig up our resources and ship them out as soon as possible. The mining tax wil only kick in when production ramps up following the invested expansion, but the tax is being withdrawn so we get little benefit from the invested expansion but cop the negative effects in the higher dollar. its called Dutch Desease.

i'll just leave you to your delusions

jc couldn't have saved ford/mitsubishi/holden

this is not the issue to pick a fight with pollies

Really?

As leader of the opposition the Monk set a very high standard for all Governments to follow. No one would have to wonder too hard what he would of said about the Government of the day if he was still in opposition with regards to Holden no longer manufacturing in Australia. If he was honest with his many past criticisms about the then Government of the day and we all know he is only out for political points scoring and has very little to no substance with regards to so many issues. Well may be the rusted on Library supporter here may not know that he was actually doing, but the rest of us do.

Of course the car industry is in such a mess because of a number of factors that outside of the Government of the day control. As in the end its all about producing vehicles at the lowest possible price for all car makers. The loss of tariffs over the years has meant that local manufactories who pay reasonable employee benefits are competing against overseas companies that don't. No rocket science here to determine where all manufacturing will move to in the end.

The only options that any Government has is to reintroduce protection to the car industry. Although this will have a negative impact on the Australian economy as its trading partners will likely do the same. Another approach would be to provide heavy subsidies to the car industry, but that opens the issue of why the government is supporting one industry over another. So the real question must be asked if the Car Industry is not sustainable, why should it be supported at all? Would it be better to spend money on other industries that Australia could be a world leader in and actual make real money from?

I agree there should not be political points scoring on this issue but Australian has such low quality politicians in both sides of politics it will always happen.

Main reason I used this issue is to demonstrate the Monks hypocrisy.

DC I was going to respond to your negative comment but simple could not be bothered. If that comment made you feel good at the time so be it.

Are we going to discuss the NBN rollout that is not only going to require an upgrade in 5-10 years, but is discovered to cost an additional $30 billion and will be finished about 8 years later than was promised? Or are we just looking the other way?

Maybe it was another pre-election misunderstanding.

lol..what a complete shambles. I feel for Malcolm. He has to sell something that he knows by global standards is an embarrassment.