On 17/07/2015 at 14:18, Wrecker45 said:

  On 17/07/2015 at 13:12, dee-luded said:

http://gfdl.noaa.gov/bibliography/related_files/td0802.pdf

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141208/ncomms6752/full/ncomms6752.html

dee-luded you are prolific poster of meaningless links. Unless you say why you are posting them I am not going to read them.

open you mind & your eyes & other senses wrecka

  On 15/07/2015 at 07:46, dee-luded said:

the temperature is shifting around the globe, & is also being absorbed into the oceans; changing current flows, & speed, & the Oceans are shifting the heat around as well, impacting on things like 'El Nino', & 'La Nina'...

CO2 is also being absorbed into our waterways & oceans, increasing salinity acidity of our Oceans.

..... its nothing the Earth wouldn't have been thru before, but we are bringing it on quicker, & possibly more severely.

the dinosaurs would have witnessed worse... for a short time in their Era.

I not so worried by the increased heat (air temp) on me personally, as I can move to cooler climates, but guessing which climates will be the cooler ones in 20 years time is anybody's guess.

As the changes, will change all known expectations... So Tassie could end up being like West Australia ? Who knows, once this snowball starts really rolling along, just how big it'll get, will be anybody's guess, & how quickly it then melts, well

.... the thing that worries me the most is the devastation it brings, before it tips over into a new Iceage.

The graphs of past climatic temperature rises, show a steady gradual rise in CO2's until it arrives at a point, where the graph spikes upward to a peak, then comes crashing down almost vertically, in next to no time, compared to the rise.

an icy world isn't something that can sustain many populous.

  On 17/07/2015 at 12:08, Wrecker45 said:

ok. Great. Show me the models that predicted that. I follow the IPCC and they said the temperatures would rise and hit a tipping point which couldn't be turned back.

I didn't notice any predictions of heat hiding in the oceans or changing current flows. Point me to them.

take note of the thermohaline circulation shown above

here from your beloved IPCC; some assessments of the climate change starting with the thermohaline currents of the north

http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg2/index.php?idp=681

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

other climate change assessments from your IPCC

http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg2/index.php?idp=680

--------------------------------

heatwave europe 2003

https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg2/en/ch12s12-6.html

&

https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg2/en/ch12s12-7.html

  On 17/07/2015 at 12:15, Wrecker45 said:

The hiatus has lasted as long as the "unprecedented warming" did. You can't have one without the other. If the hiatus is too short to be factually investigated so is the rapid warming.

Please note I acknowledge the warming since the Little Ice Age. The climate has always changed; it has to go up or down.

Sorry Wrecker

I did say "too recent and short term". My emphasis was on the recent which has not allowed the same degree of examination of the data that has been applied to the previous warming and other change records.

The conclusions of the rapid warming led to many models being developed which has only just begun with the hiatus revelations.

I also said some "minority of countries" China is one of the significant countries of that minority due to its total volume of pollution and the measures it imposed to reduce those volumes.

Australia is a minor producer on total volume, but has a significant volume per head.

As a developed advanced country if we wanted to actually have an intellectual leadership we should be recognising the results of the science and research which has occurred with more advanced and sophisticated technology and taking action.

  On 17/07/2015 at 13:20, Wrecker45 said:

Hah? Bill Shorten took payments that weren't disclosed to the electoral commission from companies to buy memberships that increased his powerbase. At the same time those same companies reduced the workers rights and won contracts because they could afford too on the reduced labor costs.More unethical than conflict of interest.

Sorry again wrecker refer to other thread for brief outline. But not sure if unethical as the increase in his power base directly gave his union and its members greater power. The perceived reduced workers rights used by the company to win contracts was the intended outcome of the legislation. Bill would probably also add that his members received greater long term benefit which was the rhetoric of the government of the day not so much in favour by our current infrastructure PM

  On 18/07/2015 at 03:55, dpositive said:

Sorry Wrecker

I did say "too recent and short term". My emphasis was on the recent which has not allowed the same degree of examination of the data that has been applied to the previous warming and other change records.

The conclusions of the rapid warming led to many models being developed which has only just begun with the hiatus revelations.

Temperature is measurable. If it hasn't warmed it hasn't warmed. How much time do we need to examine a hiatus?

  On 18/07/2015 at 04:02, dpositive said:

Sorry again wrecker refer to other thread for brief outline. But not sure if unethical as the increase in his power base directly gave his union and its members greater power. The perceived reduced workers rights used by the company to win contracts was the intended outcome of the legislation. Bill would probably also add that his members received greater long term benefit which was the rhetoric of the government of the day not so much in favour by our current infrastructure PM

No the increase in his power base gave Shorten greater power within the union movement and the Labor party. The workers got burnt on the back of Shorten's ambition.There is no perceived loss of workers rights. They lost rights.

  On 18/07/2015 at 03:12, dee-luded said:

take note of the thermohaline circulation shown above

here from your beloved IPCC; some assessments of the climate change starting with the thermohaline currents of the north

http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg2/index.php?idp=681

Which part of show me anybody that predicted the hiatus don't you understand? It is no good quoting the 5th assessment report published in 2014. The hiuatus had already been going for over a decade and a half. Are there any global warming predictions that have actually materialised? There are so many probability alone says some must have.

  On 17/07/2015 at 11:48, Wrecker45 said:

How is this link? https://theconversation.com/sea-level-is-rising-fast-and-it-seems-to-be-speeding-up-39253

A left wing rag trying to hype up the scare despite saying the sea level has risen 2 - 3 mm since 1993. If you miss the bit about only 3mm sea rises over 3 decades you could be forgiven for thinking we are about to drown because that is the tone of the article.

But but but but but it says we will rise 1m by 2100. Based on current rising that will take alot of pissing in the ocean.

Sorry, but I'm not sure I can see any link between rising sea levels and Abbott's turning back of the boats (other than the fact that the boats do travel through water). And you question the value or relevance of DL's links?

  On 18/07/2015 at 12:13, Wrecker45 said:

Temperature is measurable. If it hasn't warmed it hasn't warmed. How much time do we need to examine a hiatus?

what is the temperature of a fire wrecka?

  On 18/07/2015 at 12:31, Wrecker45 said:

Which part of show me anybody that predicted the hiatus don't you understand? It is no good quoting the 5th assessment report published in 2014. The hiuatus had already been going for over a decade and a half. Are there any global warming predictions that have actually materialised? There are so many probability alone says some must have.

wrecka, I'll go with the professional scientists working on this area, of which I am not, over & above your opinion. Or any others on the payroll you want to trot out, just so you don't have to change anything.

now, OK, its a show me yours & show you mine time is it?

well OK then, you show me the proof that all these scientists the world over are lying or are just plain wrong about this climate change & the dire warnings they give us all about the health climate of our earth.

you give US the proof wrecka.

Tony's defence of the Bishop probably will cost him some political capital. God knows how he has any capital left. But for the grace of Uncle Rupert of course. I mean the man is a an abomination, the protector of old Australia and his LNP donators from the fossil fuel industries and others of the old school who need to be protected to survive in the real world.

  On 17/07/2015 at 13:01, Wrecker45 said:

Nutbean - I appreciate your post. Unlike some who have posted in this thread you have read and have an understanding of the information available.

The data is always evolving and that is why I am in the skeptics camp. If we get rapid warming again I will be in the the global warming camp.

Whilst I am not familiar with the NOAA data I have looked at it. I am genuinely interested, did the website begin before or after the hiatus?

I think we nailed our differences - The data is ever evolving but I won't sit in the skeptics camp until the "dangers of climate change" are well and truly debunked - I don't think we can afford to be wrong on the debate.

On NOAA

NOAA's roots date back to 1807, when the Nation’s first scientific agency, the Survey of the Coast, was established. Since then, NOAA has evolved to meet the needs of a changing country. NOAA maintains a presence in every state and has emerged as an international leader on scientific and environmental matters.

  On 18/07/2015 at 12:13, Wrecker45 said:

Temperature is measurable. If it hasn't warmed it hasn't warmed. How much time do we need to examine a hiatus?

You obviously need none but some including myself would like to know what caused the hiatus and I don't know how long that examination will take

they may find that it has occurred due to something we have done

  On 18/07/2015 at 12:19, Wrecker45 said:

No the increase in his power base gave Shorten greater power within the union movement and the Labor party. The workers got burnt on the back of Shorten's ambition.There is no perceived loss of workers rights. They lost rights.

Power bases? That's the way parties work. Ask Malcolm Turnbull or Peter Costello

Re workers rights

The government legislated body that approved the agreement disagrees with you

Or the Royal Commision if given the powers to examine that would be able to reinforce your contention

But I don't think even Abbott wants to open that can of worms

  On 20/07/2015 at 13:52, dpositive said:

Re workers rights

The government legislated body that approved the agreement disagrees with you

i don't think "approved" means what you are implying

they effectively just rubber stamped an agreement that both parties had agreed to (for what ever reasons)

it was just procedural

  On 21/07/2015 at 02:07, daisycutter said:

i don't think "approved" means what you are implying

they effectively just rubber stamped an agreement that both parties had agreed to (for what ever reasons)

it was just procedural

Not implying anything approved means approved under the legislation which was in existence which was where the debate commenced. Wrecker asked where was the legislation etc you identify it as "rubber stamp.......(for what ever reason)and yes it was "procedural" so seem to understand my nuanced argument that the Royal Commission is a waste of time money and effort ans it has found nothing but it impresses Wrecker Bolt and Bronwyn so I suppose that makes it worthwhile.

  On 20/07/2015 at 13:46, dpositive said:

You obviously need none but some including myself would like to know what caused the hiatus and I don't know how long that examination will take

they may find that it has occurred due to something we have done

I think you have an outcome you want to believe.

Let's break this down you think the warming caused by man may have been stalled by man?

Natural climatic influences that have been going on forever didn't occur to you?

  On 22/07/2015 at 12:52, Wrecker45 said:

I think you have an outcome you want to believe.

Let's break this down you think the warming caused by man may have been stalled by man?

Natural climatic influences that have been going on forever didn't occur to you?

Genuinely sorry I have trouble expressing through a keyboard sometimes.

Yes the warming that may have been caused by the actions of humans (which much scientific data supports)

May have been stalled by the actions of humans (which is too recent for enough evidence to be yet collected and analysed)

Natural climatic influences that have been going on forever have certainly been identified and I am not certain that they have or have not been related to the hiatus you refer to. Will be interesting to see if the volcanic activity impacts in any way. But Ill wait for the scientists on that too

The definition of natural is also confusing as mankind is part of the natural construct so even any consequences of our actions which seem to provide a trend of global warming may be considered by some to be natural influencers.

  On 23/07/2015 at 05:54, dpositive said:

Genuinely sorry I have trouble expressing through a keyboard sometimes.

Yes the warming that may have been caused by the actions of humans (which much scientific data supports)

May have been stalled by the actions of humans (which is too recent for enough evidence to be yet collected and analysed)

Natural climatic influences that have been going on forever have certainly been identified and I am not certain that they have or have not been related to the hiatus you refer to. Will be interesting to see if the volcanic activity impacts in any way. But Ill wait for the scientists on that too

The definition of natural is also confusing as mankind is part of the natural construct so even any consequences of our actions which seem to provide a trend of global warming may be considered by some to be natural influencers.

yes, it's more than just the definition of "natural"

the use of natural implies there is some state in nature that things magically tend towards. some also refer to this in ignorance as natural state, natural order, pristine or original

in fact there is nothing natural other than change.

the old egyptians thought chaos was natural and order was fleeting

  On 22/07/2015 at 12:52, Wrecker45 said:

I think you have an outcome you want to believe.

Let's break this down you think the warming caused by man may have been stalled by man?

Natural climatic influences that have been going on forever didn't occur to you?

wrecka you continually miss the point... this idea of man-made global warming is totally outside the point...

...... If the Earth, our Home; starts to threaten OUR very survival, as a species, Via climate change, then we either lay down & die, accepting the outcome ahead of us, Or we try to undo the hostile changes, so we can continue to survive in relative comfort, & harmony.

I cannot believe you continue to argue such a childish thought process.. that idea of 'man made', is grade 2 stuff.

looking for fault, or blame, is totally beside the point, of finding the solution to the problem, & fixing the problem.

  On 19/07/2015 at 11:28, Earl Hood said:

Tony's defence of the Bishop probably will cost him some political capital. God knows how he has any capital left. But for the grace of Uncle Rupert of course. I mean the man is a an abomination, the protector of old Australia and his LNP donators from the fossil fuel industries and others of the old school who need to be protected to survive in the real world.

You should look up the Institute of Public Affairs.

Abbott comes out and openly declares that we can't trust the courts to get it right in relation to National Security (in regards to citizenship) which by extension means that we can trust politicians. - Unbelievable for someone that has a law degree (where's the separation of powers here) - he's just parroting the master I guess. Howard knew he was on a political winner with National Security because the best health and education policies in the world won't get you votes -fear gets you votes - so now Labor have to fall into line or face a similar dilemma.

Yep he remains an embarrassment and abomination. At least we'll have some beautiful new coal mines to sell as tourist destinations (maybe even to underpaid Chinese labourers) instead those ugly disgusting wind turbines! Yuk

  On 29/07/2015 at 03:20, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yep he remains an embarrassment and abomination. At least we'll have some beautiful new coal mines to sell as tourist destinations (maybe even to underpaid Chinese labourers) instead those ugly disgusting wind turbines! Yuk

oh the iron y

the rabbot just loves digging holes

Tony has done it again. His favourite new creation the Australian Border Force with the $10 million fascist regime inspired uniforms has fallen spectacularly on its first planned outage in Melbourne. I thought they should have been looking at the borders given that ISIS is coming to get us but they were planning to walk the streets of Melbourne accosting anyone they crossed paths with and checking visas. I wonder if they would check any 457 visas? Anyway supreme leader Roman QuoVadis has called off Operation Fortitude for now. What a giant cockup! Can it get worse for Tony?

  On 28/08/2015 at 11:04, Earl Hood said:

Tony has done it again. His favourite new creation the Australian Border Force with the $10 million fascist regime inspired uniforms has fallen spectacularly on its first planned outage in Melbourne. I thought they should have been looking at the borders given that ISIS is coming to get us but they were planning to walk the streets of Melbourne accosting anyone they crossed paths with and checking visas. I wonder if they would check any 457 visas? Anyway supreme leader Roman QuoVadis has called off Operation Fortitude for now. What a giant cockup! Can it get worse for Tony?

since the just the other week, It seems the Libs have come out all guns loaded, trying to divide the nation, to conquer it after the next election. they cannot win the polls & are heading towards a loss at the next election.

...... so it seems to me they're new strategy is to play 'the lift & seperate' game. Lift the aggression, & play the team Australia cards, & do all they

can to try to seperate & divide this nation, prior to the coming election. the quickest way to halve their deficit in the polls...

expect more from uncle rabbot's MP's in the near future, at they're divisive best.. hockey teasing with hypothetical tax cuts, obviously aimed at those earning a big quid.

they are trying to distract, with things designed to catch the hip pocket optic-nerve, of the middle income earners & above.

expect the next election to be fought around the rabbott's team Australia concept, running the scare campaigns on security, taxation & the business community.