I agree with your core, but put Watts in there too. Byrnes has played one game for this club, Watts has had five years.....

Watts turned 22 about a week ago. I'm not getting sucked in by media pressure, he needs to lift, but it's the senior guys that need to lift the team.

One. You like quoting numbers.

One final series, on the back of Northey's work...and then he ran down the club.

Lazy. Self satisfied AND NEVER COACHED AGAIN.

He's been great for the Cats in his role though, maybe that was the suggestion of the article, rather than getting him back as a coach?

Watts turned 22 about a week ago. I'm not getting sucked in by media pressure, he needs to lift, but it's the senior guys that need to lift the team.

Granted.

But, with the retirements/delisting/pushing aside of Junior, Yze, Robbo, Whitey, Green etc, he needed to see the writing on the wall 2 or 3 years ago and start stepping up.

Stop playing the age card - Viney is 18 and is fierce at the footy. Something you-know-who lacks in buckets.

Granted.

But, with the retirements/delisting/pushing aside of Junior, Yze, Robbo, Whitey, Green etc, he needed to see the writing on the wall 2 or 3 years ago and start stepping up.

Stop playing the age card - Viney is 18 and is fierce at the footy. Something you-know-who lacks in buckets.

It's not fair to compare ANYONE to Chuck Norris Jack Viney though!

It's not fair to compare ANYONE to Chuck Norris Jack Viney though!

You're right, sorry. The boy is definitely one out of the box.

wow this thread is a lot of garbage.

Watch the interview. Bloke said nothing wrong.

Now i remember why i never read these Jack Watts threads.

wow this thread is a lot of garbage.

Watch the interview. Bloke said nothing wrong.

Now i remember why i never read these Jack Watts threads.

Yeah. Glad to see this thread really ticking along. It's like a runaway train; not even a forum wipe could stop it.

Edited April 4, 201312 yr by Chook

There was a crap movie made in the 80's that made an amazing point... Stay with me, the punch line's a killer! In this movie 3 want-to-be-wizards lined up on stage hoping to be selected by the Grand-Master Wizard to be his apprentice. The Grand-Master Wizard held up his hand and put a question to each of the three "Choose the finger that a wizard uses for his magic...?" The first one chose the index finger, he was wrong. The second chose his middle finger, he was wrong. The third after great pause, chose the little finger... He was WRONG!

It was later revealed that the answer was to point to anyone of your own fingers...

People put up with as much crap as they think they deserve. They speak with as much authority as they believe they deserve. They pressure themselves to what they think are their boundaries.

To take the next step, you need to believe that you're capable of something you haven't done. That means, that you get to the last quarter and someone needs to stand up, you say "That's alright, Daddy's got it under control."

If you walk around with a certain swagger, with your shoulders back and your head high, you'll become the person that you think you deserve to be. Become something great Jack...

Another Jack Watts thread.

Just let the barely 22 year old play.

Go start some threads for Frawley, Jamar, Sylvia, Garland, Byrnes.

My message to Jack Watts... if you are reading this, don't.

Another Jack Watts thread.

Just let the barely 22 year old play.

Go start some threads for Frawley, Jamar, Sylvia, Garland, Byrnes.

It's gonna take a bit of work stuie, but if more and more references are made about our senior players then the penny will drop eventually.

Who amongst the following players could we give more than a 5 out of 10 for last year (10 = Champion year, 9 = Elite year, 8 = Great Year, 7 = Very good year, 6 = good year, 5 = fair year and 4 or less = not up to standard.

Frawley, Garland, Jones, Jamar, McKenzie, Sylvia, Trengove, Tapscott, Dunn, Watts, Howe. Of those 11 players I can only give Jones a mark higher than 5 for actual output. Injuries played a part but can't be used as an overall excuse.

One good year from one player out of 11 blokes is diabolical. And they've started the year off in the same fashion. (save for Trengove who didn't play and Jones who played ok)

We've got to stop pointing the finger at one bloke all the time. Scapegoating achieves nothing. It's a team game and all our senior players need to step it up.

By the way, all 11 players were involved in the '186' game.

It's gonna take a bit of work stuie, but if more and more references are made about our senior players then the penny will drop eventually.

Who amongst the following players could we give more than a 5 out of 10 for last year (10 = Champion year, 9 = Elite year, 8 = Great Year, 7 = Very good year, 6 = good year, 5 = fair year and 4 or less = not up to standard.

Frawley, Garland, Jones, Jamar, McKenzie, Sylvia, Trengove, Tapscott, Dunn, Watts, Howe. Of those 11 players I can only give Jones a mark higher than 5 for actual output. Injuries played a part but can't be used as an overall excuse.

One good year from one player out of 11 blokes is diabolical. And they've started the year off in the same fashion. (save for Trengove who didn't play and Jones who played ok)

We've got to stop pointing the finger at one bloke all the time. Scapegoating achieves nothing. It's a team game and all our senior players need to step it up.

By the way, all 11 players were involved in the '186' game.

Someone pin this to the top of Demonland.

Great post Macca.

It's gonna take a bit of work stuie, but if more and more references are made about our senior players then the penny will drop eventually.

Who amongst the following players could we give more than a 5 out of 10 for last year (10 = Champion year, 9 = Elite year, 8 = Great Year, 7 = Very good year, 6 = good year, 5 = fair year and 4 or less = not up to standard.

Frawley, Garland, Jones, Jamar, McKenzie, Sylvia, Trengove, Tapscott, Dunn, Watts, Howe. Of those 11 players I can only give Jones a mark higher than 5 for actual output. Injuries played a part but can't be used as an overall excuse.

One good year from one player out of 11 blokes is diabolical. And they've started the year off in the same fashion. (save for Trengove who didn't play and Jones who played ok)

We've got to stop pointing the finger at one bloke all the time. Scapegoating achieves nothing. It's a team game and all our senior players need to step it up.

By the way, all 11 players were involved in the '186' game.

Yep, fair enough about the one bloke thing. The whole point is Jack Watts stated that there is no leadership. He is blessed with tall, speed, skills, endurance, good mark. He needs to be a competitor like McKenzie, gritty like Jones, smart like Trengove, tough like Tapscott. If he gets a couple of those things he'll be a star. The main thing he needs is BELIEF.

It really disturbed me his comment about lack of leadership. It was a very weak comment, for lot's of reasons. So, not trying to scapegoat anyone. He's just got to realise what he can do.

Also, let's look at the list you gave me and compare the natural talent. Frawley = big, speed (for his size); Garland = speed, tall; Jones = nuggety, gritty, ok skills; Jamar; tall, (can be) tough, good mark; McKenzie = endurance, competitor; Trengove = smart, endurance, skills, competitor; Tapscott = tough, skills, competitor; Dunn = tough, competitor; Howe = skills, great mark, endurance, speed (he's another one)

Frawley and Garland are the one's wasting the most talent, which is why they become the targets with ok results. They should both be game breakers.

22.. That's 1/3 of a career, no longer a kid.

STEP UP JACK

Yep, fair enough about the one bloke thing. The whole point is Jack Watts stated that there is no leadership.

No. He didn't. Read the article.

My message to Jack Watts... if you are reading this, don't.

Yep, name says it all. Thanks for contributing big boy.

No. He didn't. Read the article.

Ok, I'm paraphrasing. Here's the quote.

"You look at the good teams like Geelong and Hawthorn and Fremantle and those kind of things. You've got guys like Selwood, Joel Corey, Stevie Johnson, Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis - they stand up and they don't accept that (losing) for their club.

"We don't have anyone like that today and that's the kind of thing that we need to work on."

You shouldn't be making statements like that. It's not acknowledging reality. It's not taking responsibility.

My problem is that you don't look at those blokes enviously. It takes you further away from being their kind of character. It's a weak statement.

Yep, name says it all. Thanks for contributing big boy.

Haven't heard Ms Jaded called 'Big Boy' in a long time!

Ok, I'm paraphrasing. Here's the quote.

"You look at the good teams like Geelong and Hawthorn and Fremantle and those kind of things. You've got guys like Selwood, Joel Corey, Stevie Johnson, Sam Mitchell and Jordan Lewis - they stand up and they don't accept that (losing) for their club.

"We don't have anyone like that today and that's the kind of thing that we need to work on."

You shouldn't be making statements like that. It's not acknowledging reality. It's not taking responsibility.

My problem is that you don't look at those blokes enviously. It takes you further away from being their kind of character. It's a weak statement.

"That's the kind of thing that we need to work on."

That's the important part. Do you disagree? Do you think we need to work on our attitude? He has said NOTHING wrong.

Haven't heard Ms Jaded called 'Big Boy' in a long time!

Oops, no offence Ms Jaded. Replace 'Big Boy' with 'Love'

Dear Jack, the patience tap has been turned off. The last of your defenders spat the dummy after you trained all summer and got 2 kicks in round 1. This is your fifth year as number one draft pick. We have all seen your gifts. No effing excuses, do something.

Also, let's look at the list you gave me and compare the natural talent. Frawley = big, speed (for his size); Garland = speed, tall; Jones = nuggety, gritty, ok skills; Jamar; tall, (can be) tough, good mark; McKenzie = endurance, competitor; Trengove = smart, endurance, skills, competitor; Tapscott = tough, skills, competitor; Dunn = tough, competitor; Howe = skills, great mark, endurance, speed (he's another one)

Frawley and Garland are the one's wasting the most talent, which is why they become the targets with ok results. They should both be game breakers.

We should be critiquing groups of players more often so as we can have a clearer picture on where the team sits going forward.

I wasn't pointing the finger at you or any poster in particular re the scapegoating reference. Individual threads about certain players are always going to happen and maybe that can be fair enough. RR started a thread about 9 players and I'd like to see more of the same. Maybe those type of threads aren't as 'interesting' but they are probably a lot more beneficial in explaining the big picture.

I just reckon we get sidetracked on the 'micro' sometimes when the emphasis should be on the 'macro'. There is no doubt in my mind that a number of our players have gotten off the hook and collectively, they need to be held accountable.

I cannot imagine Barassi, Northey or Daniher putting up with these sub standard performances. They just wouldn't stand for it and more than a few of our 'so called' senior players would be kicking the dew off the grass in the magoo's (so to speak) However, a coach should only drop a player to improve him, not punish him.

Edited April 4, 201312 yr by Macca

Let's stop blaming a 22 year old for a whole team problem.

Should have read like this...

Dear MFC, the patience tap has been turned off. The last of your defenders spat the dummy after you trained all summer and got 2 kicks in round 1. This is your seventh year rebuilding. We have all seen your gifts. No effing excuses, do something.

"That's the kind of thing that we need to work on."

That's the important part. Do you disagree? Do you think we need to work on our attitude? He has said NOTHING wrong.

Stuie, don't want to be obtuse, but I don't agree at all.

The initial part reeks of envy.

I'll try and put it in another way. In the same situation Sam Mitchell would never have talked about players from other teams. He would take ownership and say something like "we didn't want it bad enough." That's because he would never consider that he didn't have the right people in his team.

Unintended or not, as soon as you start looking over the fence at your neighbour's back yard for ideas, you become a follower. True leaders would try to never do this, maybe do it in the dark of night, but never acknowledge doing it. They'd be more focused on their internal situation, their own back yard.

Jack Watts is right, when he say's it's about changing the teams mindset. The mindset should be that of a champion, and his statements reflect the work that has to be done.

Stuie, don't want to be obtuse, but I don't agree at all.

The initial part reeks of envy.

I'll try and put it in another way. In the same situation Sam Mitchell would never have talked about players from other teams. He would take ownership and say something like "we didn't want it bad enough." That's because he would never consider that he didn't have the right people in his team.

Unintended or not, as soon as you start looking over the fence at your neighbour's back yard for ideas, you become a follower. True leaders would try to never do this, maybe do it in the dark of night, but never acknowledge doing it. They'd be more focused on their internal situation, their own back yard.

Jack Watts is right, when he say's it's about changing the teams mindset. The mindset should be that of a champion, and his statements reflect the work that has to be done.

What a load of rubbish.

You're trying to make his comments into something they're not because you're a typical Watts hater.

The meaning of everything he says (not the article, but what HE actually says) is CLEARLY "we weren't good enough, we have lots of work to do".

You're looking for things to complain about when all he is saying is what we've all been saying ALL WEEK.