I have posted the profiles of the players when they were drafted I just see to many similarities to ignore,

Forget Martins of field issues but we seem to draft similar types of players and get sucked into drafting players that play well at SANFL and WAFL level

Trengrove and Jimmy both played SANFL when they were playing under 18sand are very similar players.

Good skills but are not super quick.

Martin and Wines both built like bulls from Bendigo both love hard contested style footy. Very important fact is they WIN there own footy, this is very important, its all fine and well if you are a good kick but you need to be able to get the footy first. This is what melbourne is lacking. We seem to recruit good foot skills players. Strauss, Watts, Tappy and co. But they seem to get lost in the game and struggle to get a kick.

Anyways I just find this very interesting.

Jack Trengrove

Sturt
Midfielder, 18, 185cm, 82kg
A mega-fit runner who is a strong mark and classy finisher. Had superb under-18 carnival as SA captain and was best-on-ground in the SANFL preliminary final with 29 disposals.

. JIMMY TOUMPAS (W'ville West Torrens, 18, 183cm, 77kg)

Goal-kicking midfielder who gets plenty of the ball and has an outstanding work ethic. Proved his credentials by starring in the SANFL seniors in the past two years

Dustin Martin

Bendigo Pioneers
Midfielder, 18, 187cm, 86kg
Hardball winner from Castlemaine who averaged 25 disposals with Bendigo in the TAC Cup this year. Ranked equal second in the inaugural kicking test at draft camp.

OLIVER WINES (Bendigo Pioneers, 18, 185cm, 83kg)

Strong inside midfielder with a hard edge at the ball, especially at stoppages. Ferocious tackler who wins plenty of the ball and runs all day.

Lyon said something similar last night on FC. He specifically mentioned Watts, Blease and Strauss and others whom he described as "nice" footballers. Lloyd quickly interjected and said there was nothing wrong with the players drafted, just the way the Club developed (or didn't develop) them.

They key to Jack Trengoves fitness - before he came to the Dees he was training with his sister. After he came to the Dees, fitness and speed goes down hill.

Conclusion: Jack's sister is probably much fitter and trains harder than most players on the list.

Throwing Toumpas in with Watts, Tapscott and Strauss is unfair. Toumpas has displayed his ability to win the ball in the SANFL and at underage level. Tapscott was just a nice burly forward prospect, Strauss was a half back flanker and Watts a CHF who was quick and had nice skills.

Sure he didn't set the world on fire IN HIS FIRST game but there is no reason why he can't be a star midfielder. He won't be a 100% clearance type like Wines but he might still be the better player. In recent grand finals the best player hasn't always been the clearance bull. Hannebery was damn unlucky not to win a norm smith same goes for Jason gram. Dale Thomas kept Collingwood from losing a grand final. Brendan Goddard nearly won one for the saints.

I'll be damned if we dont lack outside midfielders as much as inside. We took the best player available.

As for Trengove (get his name right please) he only has to be half the footballer that Martin is if he becomes a true leader of this club. His fellow Jack's (Viney and Grimes) played like ones on the weekend. We certainly wont get back into a respectable club with flash in the plan efforts and deserting players.

Our recruiting mishaps have been widespread but I'm not convinced we stuffed these ones up. Wines was always going to try and make us look silly, he's a competitive beast. But Jimmy is no slouch so lets back the kid in.

I think everyone would have loved to take Wines, but were very happy to have gained Toumpas. Having seen Wines, i can see he is pretty talented, but then he was playing in a much better side than jimmy or Jack was. I still see Jimmy is going to be a class player, we just need to let him get settled a bit more and get the ball to him in reasonable fashion his class and skill will show out in the end.

Throwing Jimmy Toumpas under the bus here is an absolute joke. He's played one game. Give the kid some freaking time.

Yes, Wines looked good but it's one game. Does anyone remember when Darren Cuthbertson set the world on fire in his 4th, 5th and 6th game? He never went on to be a world beater.

Just relax about the kids. It's very early.

NEWSFLASH

When MFC produces crap players from high draft picks, it's not because we made a bad call it's because we have a crap culture at developing talent, and no money to develop it

Honestly it blows my mind that our supporters can be so thick sometimes

Throwing Jimmy Toumpas under the bus here is an absolute joke. He's played one game. Give the kid some freaking time.

Yes, Wines looked good but it's one game. Does anyone remember when Darren Cuthbertson set the world on fire in his 4th, 5th and 6th game? He never went on to be a world beater.

Just relax about the kids. It's very early.

Where did i state Toumpas wont become a good player or make it at AFL level ?

I posted this because there are huge similarities

Throwing Jimmy Toumpas under the bus here is an absolute joke. He's played one game. Give the kid some freaking time.

Yes, Wines looked good but it's one game. Does anyone remember when Darren Cuthbertson set the world on fire in his 4th, 5th and 6th game? He never went on to be a world beater.

Just relax about the kids. It's very early.

I think a lot of people have been so spooked by the development of guys like Morton and Gysberts that they're just expecting every slightly-built youngster to fail utterly.

Toumpas will be a huge litmus test for the club. If we can get him to become the AFL footballer he so clearly has the potential to be, then a lot of our problems will have been solved.

Forget Martins of field issues

I think they are important though. Not wanting to be too blunt, but he'd be one of the shortest priced favourites in AFL history to end up dead or in gaol before his career is out, and I'd imagine if we had drafted him and that eventuated then we'd have a 400 page thread on due diligence to endure.

Wines killed the champs last year, looked the best player in the whole championships, he was desperate.

Kid is a ball hunter, he hunts the pill and is ruthless, Port have an absolute ripper on their hands.

Ollie Wines will buy and sell Dustin Martin, no two ways about that.

Wines is something else, Viney is also.

We should get this rumoured 'war chest' we have got and throw it at Ollie Wines when his contract is up.

He is exactly what we need, why we didn't take him is beyond me. - then and more so now.

Toumpas is classy and will be a star, but like we have the time to wait around, it was a baffling choice.

Wines will be a star straight away, he had Selwood written all over him.

Like everyone here, I really like the look of Wines and would love to see him in the red and the blue one day.

BUT I take great comfort in the fact that there's absolutely no way Wines flew under Todd Viney's radar, and, despite Wines' undoubted strengths, he went for Jimmy Toumpas, a kid who was widely touted as a number two draft pick for most of the year.

Given that Todd Viney loves the competitive hard nuts (for eg, I expect, Wines), I feel supremely confident we have landed a little ripper in Jimmy Toumpas.

So much so I recently ordered a size 00 authentic MFC guernsey with number 5 on the back for our kid who's due on 29 April - his first footy guernsey. It arrived the other day, and it's tiny. (And yep, he's a fully paid up member, despite not even being born yet.)

As an aside, I think Trengove will pleasantly surprise a few of the doubters this year. He's got a lot going for him as a footballer, something that some here strangely seem to have forgotten.