I reckon he's alright. Kicked 13 goals in 8 games this year including two bags of 4. Averaged just over 4 marks a game and 9.5 disposals.

He's a true lead up CHF who struggles to get a game because of Brown, and he is still only 22.

I'm not saying he's a world beater, but with the new location and some work he could become a servicable player for us.

Hell 13 goals in 8 games and he would have been one of our leading goal kickers in less then half a season!

All good teams have 2 key forwards. I hear the "can't get a game because of Brown", but reality is, Brisbane need support for Brown, hence them playing big Sauce Merrett down there at times. They would've loved having big Mitch there this year...oh well!

If the recruiting dept think that Hogan is a better prospect than whomever is at 3 then you do it.

It's not hard.

If the recruiting dept thinks that Toumpas is a better fit for our team than Hogan, then don't do it.

You're right, it's not hard at all.

Why wouldn't we offer pick 4 to the GWS for Hogan and keep pick 3 for Toumpas?

Assuming JV goes second round.

Scenario 4?;

Pick 3 (Toumpas)

Pick 4 (Hogan)

Pick 12ish (Garlett)

Pick 20ish (Viney)

Why wouldn't we offer pick 4 to the GWS for Hogan and keep pick 3 for Toumpas? assuming JV goes second round.

Would GWS take it? They'll then ask themselves Toumpas v Wines. If they prefer Toumpas, they ask for Pick 3, if they're happy with Wines, Pick 4 could do it.

All good teams have 2 key forwards. I hear the "can't get a game because of Brown", but reality is, Brisbane need support for Brown, hence them playing big Sauce Merrett down there at times. They would've loved having big Mitch there this year...oh well!

I agree to a fair extent. When Cornelius played this year for Brisbane however, he mainly played at FF with Brown at CHF. Personally I think Cornelius is moreof a natural CHF where he can lead up a bit more and use his aerobic capacity where as at FF he's in a lot more pack situations.

Seeing as we have Clark at FF i reckon he'd be a good CHF for us. And worst case scenario and he doens't work out and we get Hogan in the mini draft, then we have a replacement straight away.

Why wouldn't we offer pick 4 to the GWS for Hogan and keep pick 3 for Toumpas?

We could try that. But as has been mentioned elsewhere, it may be an in principle agreement between Melbourne, GWS & GC. We give them pick 3 and they wont nominate Viney, we give them pick 4 and they do.

GWS happy cuase they get the first 3 picks and take Whitfield, Toumpas, Grundy.

GC happy cause they get pick 1 in the MD and take Martin

We're happy because we get pick 2 in the MD and take Hogan and can use pick 4 on either O'Rourke or Wines who are the type of players Neeld would love and we get Viney in the 2nd round!

Edit: We get Viney 2nd round.

Surely we won't draft Pearce he is a dud soft as butter

Am I the only one who doesn't think Wines will go in the top 10? He's quickly become a Demonland favourite based (in the minds of many) on one National Champs game and a playing history with Jack Viney. I want more with a pick 3 or 4. Does that make me greedy?

If the recruiting dept think that Hogan is a better prospect than whomever is at 3 then you do it.

It's not hard.

RP, is it realistic to make an informed decision on that with the information available and the uncertainty that another 12 months before Hogan can be listed throws into the mix?

It would seem very difficult to be absolutely sure it's the right move based on the known information.

Pick 3 will likely be a question of either Toumpas, Grundy or Hogan.

If they can't split them then it will become a question of needs to the playing group, to which I think it would go key forward, outside midfielder, ruckman.

May also depend on what type players we're looking at through free agency.

RP, is it realistic to make an informed decision on that with the information available and the uncertainty that another 12 months before Hogan can be listed throws into the mix?

It would seem very difficult to be absolutely sure it's the right move based on the known information.

Mate, this is the Teenage Lottery Draft of the AFL ©... (he says exasperatedly)

17 year old or 18 year old - it would hardly make a difference. A talented 17 year old is going to be a talented 18 year old soon enough (hint: in a year).

We drafted Watts as a 17 year old - he didn't look like Hogan but...

lol, people are so deluded. As if GC or GWS are not going to bid for viney. They know we have committed to him, we created a job for his dad just so we could draft him. It's a sure thing that we will get Viney and unfortunately it's going to be with a number 3 draft pick.

lol, people are so deluded. As if GC or GWS are not going to bid for viney. They know we have committed to him, we created a job for his dad just so we could draft him. It's a sure thing that we will get Viney and unfortunately it's going to be with a number 3 draft pick.

Phew! This has made my day...

But we can always dangle Pick 3 in front of GWS and give GC Petterd for very little.

oh as in pick 3 for a mini draft pick with GWS and make an arrangement with GC to give them petered for cheap if they don't bid?

Isn't the mini draft thing done after father son nominations though which means we would have to commit to viney before we can trade pick 3 away?

Phew! This has made my day...

But we can always dangle Pick 3 in front of GWS and give GC Petterd for very little.

That's if we think Hogan is a better prospect than Toumpas.

Christ RP, you have got this thing in your head about giving away our pick 3 for Hogan. It's a terrible shame you aren't looking at both sides of the argument, your posts on this topic would be far more pleasing on the eye if you could. The sad part is that you're starting to convince me that this would be the best outcome (making a deal with GWS/GC), only because I fear for your wellbeing if it doesn't eventuate.

oh as in pick 3 for a mini draft pick with GWS and make an arrangement with GC to give them petered for cheap if they don't bid?

Isn't the mini draft thing done after father son nominations though which means we would have to commit to viney before we can trade pick 3 away?

Yeah, but there's nothing to stop Melbourne, GWS & GC coming to an agreement before hand. GWS don't bid on Viney because they know that we'll give them pick 3 for a MD pick they have to trade. GC don't bid on Viney so they can trade pick 2 also for MD pick. We get Viney 2nd round. Everyone wins!

And worst case scenario and GWS do bid on Viney, don't be suprised to see Neeld call GWS's bluff. It was the last regime that committed to Viney. If Neeld see's an openning to getting say both of Toumpas and Grundy or something like that I wouldn't be suprised if he took it and GWS are left with Viney at Pick 1.

how does GC win out of that? they can trade their pick 2 anyway.

All roads lead to Rome

Would GWS take it? They'll then ask themselves Toumpas v Wines. If they prefer Toumpas, they ask for Pick 3, if they're happy with Wines, Pick 4 could do it.

They would have to take it, its not like they can get any better offers then pick #4 by the time trading occurs.

Though if they know this before hand, they can bid on Viney and then trade MD2 to bulldogs as pick #5 would become #4 anyway. (Alot more beating around the bush but GWS probably would do this)

how does GC win out of that? they can trade their pick 2 anyway.

They get pick 1 in the MD and pick up Jack Martin who from all reports is an absolute freak!

Would GWS take it? They'll then ask themselves Toumpas v Wines. If they prefer Toumpas, they ask for Pick 3, if they're happy with Wines, Pick 4 could do it.

Mind you in saying that Billy.... what else are they going to get that is better? Melb have 3 and 4... play hard and force them into a lesser pick being the priority pick. Its not about what they want, its about what people are prepared to give up to them as an offer. They just get to choose the best option.

Theoretically GC and Melb could say not interested.... then the best GWS can hope for would be pick 5 or 6 from WB, GWS have to use the 2 picks this year, so it's not like they can roll them over this time like they could last year.

Pick 4 got O'Meara to the GC last year.... and he was/is touted as an absolute gun, are Hogan and Martin expected to be better than him? If he was able to progress into this draft would he be rated better than Toumpas? Whitfield? Grundy? Viney? Pick 3 for the second pick this time around? Are we that confident of a superstar?

Pick 3 for the second pick this time around? Are we that confident of a superstar?

That is the question.

Personally I'm just as confident that Hogan will be a star as I am that either Toumpas or Grundy will be stars. But it's not my call.

17 year old or 18 year old - it would hardly make a difference. A talented 17 year old is going to be a talented 18 year old soon enough (hint: in a year).

True, but Tom Swift (at one point as a 17yr old touted as a potential number 1. Jake Stringer too, I think he'll be a talented player, but not top 3 as was thought last year...

Your comment about a lottery is very true. Higher the pick, higher the stakes,... more certain we need our drafting team to be!!!

That is the question.

Personally I'm just as confident that Hogan will be a star as I am that either Toumpas or Grundy will be stars. But it's not my call.

See I wouldn't have a clue like a lot of people. If I did, I wouldnt' be typing about it here I'd be getting paid the big pies like Ol' Poppa Scully!!

I do get a little concerned that people see the mini draft as a prize in itself, and that it's something that we beat the other clubs too... it's like one of those cartoons where they give someone the choice between a million dollars, or '***the mystery prize***'.

Ultimately, we have the chips to buy in some talent in 2013, hopefully its the right talent for our team, and the football department is in a position to develop these youngsters. If that happens, I'll be a happy boy!

Mind you in saying that Billy.... what else are they going to get that is better? Melb have 3 and 4... play hard and force them into a lesser pick being the priority pick. Its not about what they want, its about what people are prepared to give up to them as an offer. They just get to choose the best option.

Theoretically GC and Melb could say not interested.... then the best GWS can hope for would be pick 5 or 6 from WB, GWS have to use the 2 picks this year, so it's not like they can roll them over this time like they could last year.

Pick 4 got O'Meara to the GC last year.... and he was/is touted as an absolute gun, are Hogan and Martin expected to be better than him? If he was able to progress into this draft would he be rated better than Toumpas? Whitfield? Grundy? Viney? Pick 3 for the second pick this time around? Are we that confident of a superstar?

If we upset them and tell them pick #4 behind closed doors, they could get upset, and Bid for Viney. This would result in bulldogs pick 5 becoming a pick #4. Same result.

I doubt the doggies or Port would trade for the MD pick, they need kids now, not in a years time, they will take pick 4 as the alternative would be 6+ and maybe higher.