DEAD WOOD

[robbiefrom13 887]

Funny. You do realise that 87.3% of statistics are made up!

hmm. you're just having fun, right? Maybe figures is a dumb way to try and make a point.

[daisycutter 29,613]

Funny. You do realise that 87.3% of statistics are made up!

Hmmmmm....does that mean your statement is only 12.7% correct?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Does the Russiian go on to vets list next year and davey?

I think greeny has done a bit of coaching with the tas u-18s over the years so def into the coaching game. I think it wise to keep him on for 1 more if he gets a kick for the rest of the year. Purely as insurance and I know i will get bottled over this but other than Jnr he has been one of the greatest servants of this club in recent times. Sometimes sheer brilliant. The next few week will tell us where hes at.

Col- i still love and think with some form and a no-nonsense coaching group he will thrive.

Bail, Ricky-Bobby, Bate lets see what we can get and Morton, I simply dont know.

Big Steph- hold on again for insurance

Cook- give him a crack but i like the way hes apparently developing

Dunn- def keep purely for the MO

Dunn - def keep purely for the MO

Tokyo demons want it off !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PIH5bFQmiI&feature=relmfu

[monoccular 17,427]

A "team" team beats a cartel of all-stars, comfortably, regularly; what's more, the fans love them, and it can grow into culture...

A fantastic post, robbie.

This last sentence struck me though -- Sydney on the one hand, and Carlton on the other immediately spring to mind.

Let's see if Neeld and Missen with Craig can get these guys firstly fully fit, and determined to play for the team and for each other. I would certainly rather see a successful team of good players than one full of top draft picks that teases and flashes in the pan, then flushes from the pan!

[old dee 23,788]

what, and start again, again? Pretty destabilizing! I should hope nothing of the kind happens, and I very much doubt it will.

My thoughts are based on concern about the damage that was done when the club under Bailey began cutting senior players, culminating in the cutting of their highly regarded captain James MacDonald; and then followed that a year later with cutting almost all the 2011 leaders, and this year allowed it be generally believed that Neeld intends to clear out a whole lot more players at the end of the year. I hope the club shares the view that overall this has damaged the club more than it has benefited us.

Elements of the present poor performance of the team are confidence, player development, perhaps club culture, the team not carrying out a well-oiled game plan, and so on. In some ways it is the lack of esprit de corps that has been the biggest disappointment in a disappointing year - being able to joke and laugh while your team is being or just has been thrashed, not spreading for the player taking possession, not shepherding, etc etc.

These are things we need to see improving, quite apart from the talent of the individuals on our list. Importing talent obviously will not automatically fix them.

On the other hand, if we ignore these things, and make the club a revolving door for players, instead just focusing on importing talent, strength, speed, etc - and thereby, by implication, blaming the existing players for our poor season - what effect will that have? It certainly won't help develop confidence, or the individual development, of those players spared the axe. Can we afford to further weaken confidence (and job security) among the playing group?

Maybe we should focus on player development. Misson is still a long way from having completed his work, and benefits are certain to follow as he gets the players closer to what he is aiming for. Neeld will be working out more about how to develop his players as he goes along. Teaching is an endless exploration of what works best with the students in front of you, as well as, over time, an inevitable growing understanding of one another, between teacher and students; similarly at the footy club, unless something is going drastically wrong, the benefits of Neeld's coaching of the players should only increase.

Scotty and Juicebox (#56 and 57 above) both shift focus away from which players to turf out, and instead raise questions about the club's development staff. Curry & Beer (#39) offers the view that "some of Collingwood's better players would be battling in the VFL had Melbourne drafted them". A lot of posters see player development as an issue at least as worrying as recruitment.

At the end of the year, then, I suggest we ought to be giving the message that in general we have faith in the players. We have faith in Misson and Neeld and the whole club to be getting more and more out of our players. This would be a positive for the players, before we even look at the pre-season. It might help to draw a line under the negativity most notably fueled by the sacking of JMac. It would place the focus squarely on the real issue of how to get the maximum out of those people who actually are the Melbourne Footy Club. With the coach's faith in them demonstrated, player confidence in both the coach and themselves could be expected to be much higher than it was last summer. Clear the bad air, and have a good run at it in 2013...

With growing esprit de corps we might get 80% efficiency out of players with 75% talent - which is a much better outcome than 60% efficiency out of a group of 90% talented players (there for the money and who have only known one another for a short while). Do the maths: 80x75 = 60%, while 60x90 = 54%. A "team" team beats a cartel of all-stars, comfortably, regularly; what's more, the fans love them, and it can grow into culture...

Robbiefrom13

A large amount of what you say maybe true However we have draft picks that must be used I think it is 5 in the first three rounds ( comp picks have been activated )

I cannot see us delisting less than 5 and could easily be 6 or 7.

Inspite of what you say We are currently a poor team You do not end up effectively Bottom with 1 genuine win if you have talented players even if there are other problems.

Our average losing score screams not enough talent.

You are also assuming no one wants to leave the MFC IMO there could easily be 4 - 5 players who want out.

The nett result is IMO we will have 6 new players in 2013 and it could easily be 8.

Some have to be replaced they will never be good enough as the do not have the required skill level.

Get over it guys this is the AFL 2012 free agency and all.

[robbiefrom13 887]

Robbiefrom13

I cannot see us delisting less than 5 and could easily be 6 or 7.

You are also assuming no one wants to leave the MFC IMO there could easily be 4 - 5 players who want out.

The nett result is IMO we will have 6 new players in 2013 and it could easily be 8.

all true enough - I'd just like our preferred position to be, "we've weathered the worst of it, taken a battering, now we prepare to climb back up. We are not without resources and ideas, if you want to be part of it and work hard to get the best out of yourself". Time, I'm suggesting, to consider the benefits of closing ranks. It would be a statement. (Of course we will have some new players - but not going overboard may have collateral benefits with the players we keep...)

Plenty of players of less than stunning natural talent have been champions, by hard work and real desire. If guys want out, fair enough. But those who want to stay, and are prepared to push at it harder, keep them! What I am talking about is the perceived default position on our current list. And 8 or more sounds like a lot; how much confidence will the playing group begin the off-season with if this happens?

"Our average losing score screams not enough talent", you say.

I'm questioning whether this is the only possible cause of our average losing score. If it isn't, we could be hasty in reacting.

Edited July 11, 2012 by robbiefrom13

[monoccular 17,427]

......... And 8 or more sounds like a lot; how much confidence will the playing group begin the off-season with if this happens?.......

What it may do is say to the "survivors" : YOU are the ones who we beleive can take us to the top - if you were not you wouldn't still be here"!

So as I see it it could work psychologically quite the opposite way to which you do. But who knows how a footballer's brain sees things?

[BIG JIM 508]

What it may do is say to the "survivors" : YOU are the ones who we beleive can take us to the top - if you were not you wouldn't still be here"!

So as I see it it could work psychologically quite the opposite way to which you do. But who knows how a footballer's brain sees things?

I agree 100% the one's that work there bums off would see that the club is not sitting back letting players just crusie through.

Mark neeld is giving all players a chance and only the strong will make it.

This will build a stong culture were you get reward for effort.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Here's my take:

Two things we need to consider - would these players be getting a game at a side in the top eight?

AND - have these players stood up in a season where we have struggled and the opportunity has been there?

We seem to have a side of battlers and potential. Frequently I heard players defended with statements like 'if he learns to kick' or 'if he works on his skills' or 'if he is given more time' - consider these statements with my two points above and you may conclude that many have been given too much time and many chances already. the fact so few have come on may reflect more about the club and development than anything else, but the truth is there for all to see.

[DemonWA 3,934]

We seem to have a side of battlers and potential.

Good summary of our list IMO

[Doggo 32]

GREAT series!!!!

language warning: [media=]

My favourite show ever

[robbiefrom13 887]

What it may do is say to the "survivors" : YOU are the ones who we beleive can take us to the top - if you were not you wouldn't still be here"!

So as I see it it could work psychologically quite the opposite way to which you do. But who knows how a footballer's brain sees things?

yes - my target in the footballers' brains was bonding, my fear an "every man for himself" outlook, where mateship is not cultivated. I know that could work either way too - I was just starting from perceived weaknesses already visible. And I am a believer in the value of having some sun break through clouds.

For me, the two best things this year have been seeing the passion in Neeld with his players on the siren against Essendon, and the players' exuberant celebration in moments like Watts-to-Trenners and Dunn's chase-down in the game against GWS. There's been a lot of the year when to me they haven't looked enough like team-mates. My biggest concern out of everything.

But you are right - from this distance, who can tell which way anything could go.

[Kento80 83]

I agree with the general gist of this thread, but just remember that as recently as early last season, there was a rather loud majority that were certain one Nathan Jones would never amount to anything more than a bit player. Therefore I say that it is way to early to make that call on James Magner. With Beamer, we know what we have and he would get a run with most teams. Bennell and Jetta have the ability to become very good, and I have no doubt that a team such as the Swans, who have an amazing ability to recycle and get the best out of players would succeed with them. The thing with that is that it means they would probably have some trade currency, but at the same time we need to find a way to get the best out of these blokes, not get the shits with them and delist them for others to develop, otherwise we will never get anywhere near another flag again. The rest of them I'm neither here nor there on.

[old dee 23,788]

I agree with the general gist of this thread, but just remember that as recently as early last season, there was a rather loud majority that were certain one Nathan Jones would never amount to anything more than a bit player. Therefore I say that it is way to early to make that call on James Magner. With Beamer, we know what we have and he would get a run with most teams. Bennell and Jetta have the ability to become very good, and I have no doubt that a team such as the Swans, who have an amazing ability to recycle and get the best out of players would succeed with them. The thing with that is that it means they would probably have some trade currency, but at the same time we need to find a way to get the best out of these blokes, not get the shits with them and delist them for others to develop, otherwise we will never get anywhere near another flag again. The rest of them I'm neither here nor there on.

There is one flaw in your agruement kento80

Jones always got a fair bit of the ball, people used to complain about his disposal etc.

Bennell does not get the ball in the first place, we know he is a good kick but that amounts to nil if you average few possesions a game.

Jetta has been injured so much we have little idea of his worth.

a min. of 6 players will leave the MFC at the end of this season we cannot keep them all.