Everyone Stand Up And Applaud Mark Neeld

[Hardnut 327]

I think that there is a focus on defensive intent both with the ball and without, but Neeld is not about to throw out Footy 101, which is spread the footy, get it out the back and run forward and into space.

The players are not willing to do the daring run and carry, and they are more interested in 'see ball, get ball' even when their teammates are a chance to get it themsleves.

So while I agree that the defensive mindset is a focus - the players will be told to run and be creative and spread and carry the footy.

They just aren't doing it, as I said - for a variety of reasons.

Wait a minute rpfc - how do you know this? The players will be told.... but they just aren't doing it? The players are at fault yet again. What are the reasons in your view?

[Sir Why You Little 37,119]

I think that there is a focus on defensive intent both with the ball and without, but Neeld is not about to throw out Footy 101, which is spread the footy, get it out the back and run forward and into space.

The players are not willing to do the daring run and carry, and they are more interested in 'see ball, get ball' even when their teammates are a chance to get it themsleves.

So while I agree that the defensive mindset is a focus - the players will be told to run and be creative and spread and carry the footy.

They just aren't doing it, as I said - for a variety of reasons.

Do not pay them until they do it....Simple.

[rpfc 28,729]

Wait a minute rpfc - how do you know this? The players will be told.... but they just aren't doing it? The players are at fault yet again. What are the reasons in your view?

Because, as I have said a few times, it is Footy 101 to spread, look for the defensive side handball, and move it quickly when from a stoppage.

Our players rarely do this and get sucked into the contests like they are playing under 8s.

So either Neeld and co. are utterly hopeless, self-defeating idiots who hate the MFC or the players are ball watching and not trusting their teammates to get the footy.

[rpfc 28,729]

Happy to let it go rpfc, but let me clarify the comments:

'You will all be lauding this guy as the Savior in 18 months time.' This was RR's comment, not mine - a quirk of the quote system I think.

'Somehow I doubt it RR!

Just before the Hawks game, did you see the clip on Fox showing primary school teacher Neeld talking to the players? Not a professional sight!'

This was my comment.

Yes, I know what your quote was.

I thought you were being unfair by accusing Neeld of being unprofessional because of his address to the players.

There is plenty of worthy things to get angry about without resorting to this kind of off-hand 'long-bow' of a criticism.

[Hardnut 327]

Yes, I know what your quote was.

I thought you were being unfair by accusing Neeld of being unprofessional because of his address to the players.

There is plenty of worthy things to get angry about without resorting to this kind of off-hand 'long-bow' of a criticism.

Understand the confusion rpfc - my comment was from an experienced educational viewpoint in how to deliver a message.

[Rogue 585]

The players are not willing to do the daring run and carry

Not willing? Rather it's that the daring run and carry isn't the gameplan.

[Hardnut 327]

Because, as I have said a few times, it is Footy 101 to spread, look for the defensive side handball, and move it quickly when from a stoppage.

Our players rarely do this and get sucked into the contests like they are playing under 8s.

So either Neeld and co. are utterly hopeless, self-defeating idiots who hate the MFC or the players are ball watching and not trusting their teammates to get the footy.

I think you are painting two rather extreme positions here rpfc - there are ways other than the Neeld method to get players trusting their teamates as other clubs have done as I have posted elsewhere.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Still not sold RR, but applaud the sentiment of support.

[deejammin' 2,373]

Here's that "The first half year" thread . 86% predicted 4 or more wins . And nobody predicted anything less than 2 wins . It's difficult for me to take seriously those who say that this was how our season could start .

http://demonland.com...irst-half-draw/

Hey Macca, we still could get 4 wins (ba-doom chish!), it seems you are looking into the future afterall........

Edited May 14, 2012 by deejammin'

[thaipantsman 180]

Back him Master Demon but it's going to be hell I'm afraid. The Guy doesn't seem to be a motivator. His selections of Grimes and Trengove as Co Captains ahead of Jones, Clark, Frawley , Jamar demonstrates his poor judgement. Melbourne have no leadership and appear completely rudderless.

Melbourne were sucked in Badly!

[rpfc 28,729]

I think you are painting two rather extreme positions here rpfc - there are ways other than the Neeld method to get players trusting their teamates as other clubs have done as I have posted elsewhere.

Well I put that on the players to rectify, as it is poor decisions they are making at a basic level. To crowd the footy and get sucked into contests is dumb footy reminiscent of junior footy. Neeld holds responsibility but it is the players who must address this as this will in no way be what they are taught or told to do.

And I rarely have extreme positions - there is nuance everywhere - even in this situation. But the players are the ones who are playing selfish, 'see ball, get ball' footy and not Neeld.

[H_T 3,049]

I doubt anyone on this site would have envisaged a game plan such as the one we're seeing . Nobody predicted this at the start of the season . Nobody .

It's all very well to talk in hindsight here . That stuff doesn't cut it with me .

Well if it must be said a couple of posters declared before the season started that a 0-11 start to the season was a possibility. Of course no one would want that for their club, but...

Ask yourself this (for clarity), where do I rank my teams midfield ?

And is it stronger or weaker than 2010-2011 midfield ? Has the dynamic changed ?

Remember since the seasons mentioned we are minus Junior and Scully.

To be frank, I rate it stone motherless last.

That's what Neeld inherited.

We haven't been able to get Blease, Gysberts ready, nor Tapscott as yet for long periods of time due to interruptions in their development.

And people ask themselves wtf has happened ? What has Neeld done ?

Well FM !

[Hardnut 327]

Well I put that on the players to rectify, as it is poor decisions they are making at a basic level. To crowd the footy and get sucked into contests is dumb footy reminiscent of junior footy. Neeld holds responsibility but it is the players who must address this as this will in no way be what they are taught or told to do.

And I rarely have extreme positions - there is nuance everywhere - even in this situation. But the players are the ones who are playing selfish, 'see ball, get ball' footy and not Neeld.

I understand the 'see ball, get ball' issue, but there are usually contributory reasons for this sort of problem. For example, could the boundary line approach lead to overcrowding and a more complicated extraction process? Have the players lost their natural footy instincts due to an unusually complex and uncommon plan? Given the club's present and potential finishing position this year, could the players also now be suffering from a fear for their own careers?

I don't see the Neeld plan in action at too many other clubs - I do see good footy principles at most other clubs, even when some of those clubs are struggling to implement those principles.

[Macca 17,032]

Well if it must be said a couple of posters declared before the season started that a 0-11 start to the season was a possibility. Of course no one would want that for their club, but...

Ask yourself this (for clarity), where do I rank my teams midfield ?

And is it stronger or weaker than 2010-2011 midfield ? Has the dynamic changed ?

Remember since the seasons mentioned we are minus Junior and Scully.

To be frank, I rate it stone motherless last.

That's what Neeld inherited.

We haven't been able to get Blease, Gysberts ready, nor Tapscott as yet for long periods of time due to interruptions in their development.

And people ask themselves wtf has happened ? What has Neeld done ?

Well FM !

Even if there were a couple of posters predicting a 0 - 11 start , it's not a big enough percentage to take seriously . Less than .1% of the more than 2,500 Demonland members . At least in that 'The first half draw' thread nobody predicted an 0 - 11 start . But as 'deejammin' alluded to , that 0 - 11 hasn't happened yet and may not anyway . I've a feeling we'll win 1 game in the next 4 but that wasn't the crux of my argument anyway (if people have read the whole thread)

The rest of what you've said is most probably true but how many were saying this before the start of the season ? Not many or certainly not enough posters . I understand what you're trying to say though and don't worry , I fully expected to cop a bit of criticism for daring to question Neeld's game plan . Time will tell of course

[H_T 3,049]

Even if there were a couple of posters predicting a 0 - 11 start , it's not a big enough percentage to take seriously . Less than .1% of the more than 2,500 Demonland members . At least in that 'The first half draw' thread nobody predicted an 0 - 11 start . But as 'deejammin' alluded to , that 0 - 11 hasn't happened yet and may not anyway . I've a feeling we'll win 1 game in the next 4 but that wasn't the crux of my argument anyway (if people have read the whole thread)

The rest of what you've said is most probably true but how many were saying this before the start of the season ? Not many or certainly not enough posters . I understand what you're trying to say though and don't worry , I fully expected to cop a bit of criticism for daring to question Neeld's game plan . Time will tell of course

Next time when i predict more pain, I'll yell it from the rooftops, that might work. It's within the posts, not the votes.

I'm sure old55 feels the same way.

[old55 23,687]

Next time when i predict more pain, I'll yell it from the rooftops, that might work. It's within the posts, not the votes.

I'm sure old55 feels the same way.

Yep, altho I was hoping for less pain - clearly because I voted for 4 wins I think - but I knew 0 was always a possibility as was 8. I was hoping we might simulate the Bombers Knights-Hird transition but it looks like we're going to do it a lot harder.

[Macca 17,032]

Next time when i predict more pain, I'll yell it from the rooftops, that might work. It's within the posts, not the votes.

I'm sure old55 feels the same way.

Fairly sure there was one poster who was yelling it from the rooftops but when he posts things like , there is a real entertainment factor tinged with plenty of humour !

I've long felt that some people post with a negative slant but are secretly wanting or hoping for something much better . The reverse can apply as well HT , I'm often overly optimistic but deep down I'm expecting the worst ! For instance , I'm tipping us to win 1 of our next 4 .

Edited May 15, 2012 by Macca

[timD 994]

Not willing? Rather it's that the daring run and carry isn't the gameplan.

I don't think that arguing that Neeld is using a game plan that has not evolved at all since Norm Smith is a credible argument. It defies belief that, after decades of coaching experience at different levels, including coaching the 'pies midfield, Neeld has come to melbourne and thought that the gameplan that will work best is to not run and create. Instead he has gone back to a plan that is largely unchanged from that evident at our club 50 years ago. He is ignoring any trends that have existed in footy and all he has got is "hug the boundary and bomb to the forward"?

There is a press conference somewhere where Neeld talks about "possession chains" and being pleased at being able to talk about them. That one example really screws the "his game plan is one thing only" argument. Furthermore, the kind of mental limitation and inflexibility implied in your argument would have impeded his trip from coach of ocean grove to midfield coach at a premiership winning team. While it is possible, I think it is pretty unlikely.

[Macca 17,032]

I don't think that arguing that Neeld is using a game plan that has not evolved at all since Norm Smith is a credible argument. It defies belief that, after decades of coaching experience at different levels, including coaching the 'pies midfield, Neeld has come to melbourne and thought that the gameplan that will work best is to not run and create. Instead he has gone back to a plan that is largely unchanged from that evident at our club 50 years ago. He is ignoring any trends that have existed in footy and all he has got is "hug the boundary and bomb to the forward"?

There is a press conference somewhere where Neeld talks about "possession chains" and being pleased at being able to talk about them. That one example really screws the "his game plan is one thing only" argument. Furthermore, the kind of mental limitation and inflexibility implied in your argument would have impeded his trip from coach of ocean grove to midfield coach at a premiership winning team. While it is possible, I think it is pretty unlikely.

You could mount an argument that Swan , Pendlebury , Thomas and Ball could largely coach themselves . They are all stars of the game and are naturally great at what they do . I wouldn't call coaching the Collingwood midfield in the last few years a tough gig .

Chris Scott has gone on record as saying that 90% of what Geelong was doing was fine . He said that when he got there . Not sure he had to "coach" a number of their players last year .

Edited May 15, 2012 by Macca

[H_T 3,049]

Fairly sure there was one poster who was yelling it from the rooftops but he always does things like that with a real entertainment factor tinged with plenty of humour !

I've long felt that some people post with a negative slant but are secretly wanting or hoping for something much better . The reverse can apply as well HT , I'm often overly optimistic but deep down I'm expecting the worst ! For instance , I'm tipping us to win 1 of our next 4 .

I've checked out that thread, and I've been optimistic in the voting selecting 5 but mentioning in the thread 2-9 as a distinct possibility in a few posts, isnt there another thread other than the first draw thread ? Must be a few prediction threads laying around.

[Macca 17,032]

I've checked out that thread, and I've been optimistic in the voting selecting 5 but mentioning in the thread 2-9 as a distinct possibility in a few posts, isnt there another thread other than the first draw thread ? Must be a few prediction threads laying around.

Yeah , there's a few comments like that mixed in with threads of a different nature . Good luck trying to find them !

The reality is that the large majority of Demon fans were expecting a much better start to the season . In fact , the mood was positively buoyant , especially when we beat Collingwood in the nab cup .

Things could turn around , and I really hope I'm way off the mark here , which may seem an odd comment . The counter argument that it's the players who simply can't follow instructions may be correct .

Interesting debate anyway , and no harm done either .

[nutbean 8,838]

Back him Master Demon but it's going to be hell I'm afraid. The Guy doesn't seem to be a motivator. His selections of Grimes and Trengove as Co Captains ahead of Jones, Clark, Frawley , Jamar demonstrates his poor judgement. Melbourne have no leadership and appear completely rudderless.

Melbourne were sucked in Badly!

So obviously when everyone at the club has advised exactly what the process was - all players, coaches and some administrators had an equal vote for LG places and captain. At the end of the vote two players were well ahead of the pack so Neeld didnt try to split them - you dont believe this ? You believe it was a Neeld decision alone on who was captain and the whole voting for Captain by the club is a bogus story ? do I understand you right ?

[H_T 3,049]

Yeah , there's a few comments like that mixed in with threads of a different nature . Good luck trying to find them !

The reality is that the large majority of Demon fans were expecting a much better start to the season . In fact , the mood was positively buoyant , especially when we beat Collingwood in the nab cup .

Things could turn around , and I really hope I'm way off the mark here , which may seem an odd comment . The counter argument that it's the players who simply can't follow instructions may be correct .

Interesting debate anyway , and no harm done either .

Yeah no luck as yet, I'll keep sifting though.. Has to be somewhere.

[Macca 17,032]

Yeah no luck as yet, I'll keep sifting though.. Has to be somewhere.

Ha ha ! Whilst your looking , if you come across that post when I said we should make a play for Cloke or in fact , had already had a bit of a nibble , let me know . It was a couple of months ago !

Just sayin .

Edited May 15, 2012 by Macca

[stinga81 210]

g'day all

first time poster, long time reader of the forum.

Neeld's got a monumental task in front of him and one which that we'll a year or so until we start seeing some postive results.

IMO the game style is a 180 of who melbourne teams have played over the last 15 years. We're a defensive mindset and in and under bodies have taken a backward step to offensive and running the ball style football. That's all fair enough, each to each their own. I think Neeld is the man for the job, although the results have been disheartening of late, the little things like improved contested ball, hardness around the contests have been positives in a bleak start to the year. That being said, our second half of the year should see improvement right across the board as the players gain confidence in the game plan and each other, with a few wins to compliment this improvement.

cheers

stinga81