Dumb or down on confidence?

[DemonPremiers2015 10]

Let me preface this by saying I wasn't at the game tonight (work comittments) so people watching may have seen differently. From my reading of comments now (and previous weeks), it seems players still aren't learning. I mean we've been planning, practicing, training and discussing the new game plan about 6 months now and I would have thought we'd see more improvement than the odd 10 minute glimpse here and there.

I know a game plan takes time to learn but jeez i'm getting worried. We've seen other sides with new coaches arrive (not just this year, but in other years) and players have shown some sense of idea of what to do and improve a heap quicker than ours have. I don't know if I can sit through another rebuild, another 2 of years of absolute crap and pity from other supporters and joking from the media. At the end of the year it will have been 6 years or torture (2007-2012) and nothing to show for it.

I think there's going to be a few changes at the end of the year where players we don't think would leave will if they don't show improvement - I'm speaking about Sylvia Moloney Garland, Pettard. (yes they're contracted I guess so maybe not). It's probably lucky we can't chop 10 players in a year otherwise a few players would be pretty worried.

Are the players just plain dumb?, don't learn? or take instruction or is it confidence? If it's confidence then surely it either the captains/leadership group job to step up and lead and give direction. WTF is going on. You'd hope Neeld is providing them with how do I say this - forthright feedback !

If they're dumb and slow and can't adapt then it's time to move them on, because sure as hell in a few years if Neeld is still coach, he will have to tinker with how we play (it's the nature of the evolving game) and they'll struggle with change again.

[Little Richard 6,216]

There aren't many things harder than supporting the MFC I would say. The worst part of it is seeing some of the players, such as Sylvia, seemingly not giving a sh$t, closely followed by copping it from other supporters week in week out, as you said. Garland must stay, I truly hope Sylvia goes at the end of the year. I don't care if I cop it for saying this because he has been at the club 8 years (?) and contributed nothing but a lazy attitude, and I believe we would be better off without him. Moloney doesn't seem to be playing with his heart on his sleeve as he was last year, and that indicates to me that there are definitely issues between the senior players and coaching staff (obviously that has been mentioned here plenty of times). If we were to cut the senior players who clearly offer little leadership and little on the field, where would we be? A team with a bunch of 19 to 24 year olds and little experience. So what direction do we take?

[Tatu 416]

The intensity for tonight's game was there........could see flashes of the game plan, in the first quarter and bits of it in the third...... It will look good, when up an running for a whole game....

Recently it's been really hard work, being a MFC supporter......but I can see the light and I have faith in the new coaching panel and the new game plan.....

We've lost Scully, Aussie, Bruce and maric, all big pieces of the recent rebuild. Also Jarrah hasn't played and it's possible he won't, Watts and Green are out of the team with bad form and players like Sylvia, Moloney and Davey(resenable tonight) have shown little to no leadership or form....

Our rebuild that began in late 2007, has had some set backs that will take some time to recover from.....

As a passionate Melbourne member and supporter, all I have for is

Pick 1, pick 2, pick 12, Jack Viney

Pick 1, pick 2, pick 12, jack viney

Pick 1, pick 2, pick 12, jack viney...........................rebuild complete!!'!!!!!!

Edited May 11, 2012 by tatu

[Guest José Mourinho]

Hawthorn's style of footy cut us apart.

We haven't faced a team that played this way until now, and we are not yet fit to cope with it.

[rjay 24,615]

Yeah, he does make some mistakes but he did a good job on Rioli as he has the last few weeks. He is the least of our problems.

[rhaz 342]

or our gameplan is [censored] and we dont have the skill to execute it

[Dr. Gonzo 23,723]

Fitness plays a part.

But last year I called the team dumb and lazy and not much has changed. They make some of the most blatantly stupid decisions I see on a footy field. Laziness is exemplified by Davey running forward loose into the F50 at the Punt Road end. The ball wasn't kicked to him and was turned over with a Hawks player marking on our HFF Southern Stand side. So does Davey get on his bike to run hard back the other way? No he just sits their spectating until the ball is kicked to a loose Hawthorn player who he then decides to half-heartedly chase while giving him a 20-25 metre head start. Laziness is also exemplified by Sylvia having 6 possessions and Petterd and Bennell having 4 each. How the hell can you have 3 senior players play 120 minutes and combine for 14 touches? That is not fitness or smarts that is just plain couldn't give a f*** laziness.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Are people aware Hawthorn was a popular pick for the flag during preseason..?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Are people aware Hawthorn was a popular pick for the flag during preseason..?

Were they?

Well we take all the stuff about our game plan being suspect and the Melbourne players being lazy and unfit because Hawthorn were favourites for the flag.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Were they?

Well we take all the stuff about our game plan being suspect and the Melbourne players being lazy and unfit because Hawthorn were favourites for the flag.

No, but it really shouldn't be a surprise.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

No, but it really shouldn't be a surprise.

Again, it's no surprise the team lost, it's how they lost.

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

Probably all crap but this is my take on it FWIW.....feel free to wack me.....

> SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS by hand and foot (including the accuracy and speed at which those skills are executed....time and space). Improve this area substantially and up goes the confidence as will the run and spread (obviously being last in disposal efficiency against the competition isn't great).

> Can't string any quick succession of handballs together to get out of trouble or to find the 2nd/3rd rider from a clearance (mind you there's rarely any 2nd rider in the open at this point, let alone a 3rd, as we turn the ball over in the clearances so often we don't have the belief in each other for the designated riders to run and spread). Emphasis on speed and accuracy (even if that means cheating and getting a few cheap throws in in close.....top teams do this quite often. Hawks had plenty of in close throws tonight which weren't picked up). See below re handball.

> Not enough damaging "burst speed" and/or evasive players other than Howe, Jones and Davey.

> No classy quick small forward to worry the opposition (goal snap/kicker and just to help gain possession or regain possession) when the ball hits the deck up forward on the occasions it goes in there.

> No classy/speedy outside rider/s either through the middle or off half back to carry and deliver the ball with speed and accuracy further up the field (Howe trying hard and doing quite well though, Davey/Morton trying hard).

> We're playing an old 80's style kick long to a our advantage around the boundary where possible. Or if under severe pressure just kick long up the line to any contest, few handballs. Because we are slow both across the ground and in our decision making, we're often getting caught and we end up kicking under pressure to virtually any contest up the ground (ie., mostly to the wrong contest or an uneven one)....even an opposition only contest! Our kick to handball ratio would be a big turn around from the Bailey era i would think where we hand balled much more often.

> As a result of the emphasis on long kicking, our handball skills appear very low as we hardly ever handball in succession to link our way out of trouble. We either have no confidence in our hand balling generally (there are exceptions to this but too few to impact) or we are under instruction not to overdo it and when we do handball we're just woefully under done or lacking the belief to do so (under done in training drills here maybe? Too much emphasis/training on defense?)

> Need to find one more solid option to goal (see below for fix suggestion)

> Need to find a small crumbing forward (see below for short term fix suggestion)

> We attempt a forward press, sometimes successfully for short periods but usually let down by one player not playing close enough on his opponent or occasionally letting him run behind the press to take easy long kick/mark out the back. There's one player in particular who's letting us down here week after week but i won't mention him as there's plenty of other players doing dumb things.

In the short term, i would dump Garland, Petterd, Bail, Sylvia & Bate. In Couch, Blease and in 2 to 3 weeks Watts (hopefully) if he's deemed to be ready around then. Someone else for Watts in the short term till Watts is ready (haven't looked yet...suggestions?) and another for Sylvia (again i haven't looked...suggestions?). And another for Bate? And this is the problem. Do we have these 3rd, 4th, & 5th alternatives? Probably not.

Chip to CHB to create (loves to run and carry and can create a little mayhem in the opposition at least...drawing players, creating a potential overlap for the run etc).

Watts to FB (in 2 to 3 weeks) where he shares this role/duty with T McDonald.

Davey in the back pocket on the opposition's best small. Get him away from his problem area (ie., playing up forward or through the middle) and provide some clean ball use, run and to cut through the press with accuracy and hopefully put him in a defensive mind set on his opponent to shut him down. He'll also (in many cases) have most players in front of him so he wont hear as many footsteps as he does up the field atm!

Morton to the HB (occasionaly with Howe) to add further marking strength in the back half, extra run and long kicking out of the press.

Watts and Davey (Only at this point) to take the kick outs.

Couch into the middle to rotate with Moloney, Magner, and Mckenzie. Howe and Morton occasionally pushing up as the outside riders through the middle.

Jones up forward to try and add the small crumbing forward type role (even though he isn't really that i realise) pushing up high at times to offer the outside option and run.

Jurrah (when fit enough) mostly an outside rider/runner in the middle, occasionaly pushing up forward to offer the crumbing/marking option (swapping with Jones in these two roles)

Blease in if he has anywhere near the speed of last year.....just blood him to become a key receiver runner off half back to eventually take over full time from Howe (part time when not resting up forward).

Rest/play Howe mostly up forward to give us the 2nd dangerous option until (IF) Watts is ready to step in later this year or next . If Watts does make it up forward (as the 2nd dangerous forward along with Mitch as the main of course) then Howe can be freed up a little higher up the ground as required to provide a utility role (as per now) pushing up on occasions to give a 3rd dangerous forward option (along with Jurrah) or providing a /decoy for Watts/Clarke/Jurrah. Watts, Howe, Jurrah as decoys for each other and Clark.

Focus on SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS and speed of delivery, run, spread!!

Defensive aspects (other than forward press) later!!

That's me short term fix for some short term gains and by round 17. At least 4 wins lol! Sydney, GWS, Brisbane & Port. Now on to my next J&B to numb the pain of tonight

Edit: Having slept on this o'night .....Tappy in for Bate. Tappy in at BP only. Long raking kick out of defence and wont get so lost here as he only has one way to look to an d one direction to head in (share kick outs with Watts and Davey, Tappy going long as he can at times to a boundary contest...predictable but distance outside 50 the key and wont be too predictable if we share the role between Watts & Davey for change up). Green in for Sylvia. Green to FF only. Hit up on the lead inside 40 as alternative to Mitch's lead out to 50 and sometimes beyond.

Note: Time inside forward 50's last night .... Hawks 63%. Demons 37%. Nothing surprising but ugly nonetheless.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Rusty Nails

[Guest José Mourinho]

Again, it's no surprise the team lost, it's how they lost.

Even that I didn't find too surprising.

A lot of it had to do with fitness - we ran out of legs.

[Nasher 33,607]

Even that I didn't find too surprising.

A lot of it had to do with fitness - we ran out of legs.

In the second quarter?!

[Guest José Mourinho]

In the second quarter?!

Yeah, I reckon I've seen it most of this year.

We look dead on our feet at times, mostly in the 2nd and final quarters.

We're not too bad after half time cos we've had a rest.

I'd be interested to look at the GPS data.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,723]

Even that I didn't find too surprising.

A lot of it had to do with fitness - we ran out of legs.

[censored]. Some of it is fitness but a lot of our players just don't seem to give a stuff or want to push themselves beyond just doing enough to get a game. Sylvia had 6 possessions for the game. 6! Petterd 4. These aren't first or second year players so how can their fitness be so poor that they can't get more than a handful of possessions for the match. Davey refuses to run hard defensively. That has nothing to do with fitness it is a soft pissweak mentality.

You might be able to comfort yourself week in week out by saying "well everyone expected us to lose, what did you expect?" I'll tell you what I expect, I expect the team to have a crack every time they step out on to the field and make a contest of every single game. Who cares who rated which clubs where before the season. Win, lose or draw you need to be able to look in the mirror and say you did your best. Only a handful of players can do that this year and two of them weren't even at the club last year.

As for guys like Sylvia, Moloney, Petterd, Bennell even Jamar, Bate, Dunn they can all get stuffed as far as I'm concerned.

[Guest José Mourinho]

I'm beginning to form the opinion that Bailey had them trained to play and playing "easy" football, that required a lesser amount of running.

The current game style requires greater fitness that the players have never developed.

[Friday 71]

you weren't there. Nor have you seen the game. Comments are nil and void.

kthnxbai

[Johnny Karate 559]

Are people aware Hawthorn was a popular pick for the flag during preseason..?

Hawthorn were crap last night, missing two of their best players and yet they could've easily wiped us by more than 100 points. They looked nothing like a premiership team but there was a gaping chasm between the desire of the two sides.

[Geddy Lee 582]

We're just [censored].

The only player last night who can shred the opposition running through the midfield is Davey, and for a glimmer Jeremy Howe.

Which says a hell of a lot about our midfield squad that our most damaging guys through the middle are part-timers in there.

McKenzie, Trengove, Magner, Jones, Moloney, Sylvia, and Jamar DOES NOT WORK. Slowest midfield in the history of the AFL, and not terribly bright either. No spread, no quick and dangerous movement. Completely stagnant midfield.

Special mention to the truly horrendous kicking skills of our team, which doesn't help. I like our ferocity at the ball carrier, but we can't maintain it.

[H_T 3,032]

Again, it's no surprise the team lost, it's how they lost.

This comment doesn't look out of place in 2008, 2009, some of 2010 and in 2011.

Must say something about our list, midfield, lack of leadership and no stars.