Dermie and Robert Walls on SEN

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

They just had a 20 minute discussion about the Dees and where we went wrong - which can be summed up as:

Walls: Bailey was progressing the group well although slowly

Walls: The players were causing infighting

Dermie: Aaron Davey looks like he doesnt want to be out there

Walls: why would you go and watch the team - there are no exciting players to go and watch

Dermie: they have gone far backwards in the last 12 months and it doesnt look good.

Usual 'analysis' really...

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

And the biggest point i forgot:

Dermie: why appoint two 20 year olds as captain? [censored] off all the older players and ruin their careers,et c

[Guest Jackie]

I have been trying looking back to pinpoint when the rot may have started. In 2010 we were progressing well until the last 4 rounds. We were an ouside finals chance and had form. The 4th last game of the season we played Richmond. A very disapointing game though we won. Richmond were a very bad side then and tired in the finish. However I throught we played very lazy and dispassionate football and the game plan that looked so promising during the middle of the season seemed to be unravelling under moderate pressure and enthusiasm from Richmond. Then we went on to lose the last 3 games in meek fashion. This was also the time Junior got retired, Bruce walking out of the club soon after and the delisting of Miller. Since then its been all downhill.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Jackie

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

I have been trying looking back to pinpoint when the rot may have started. In 2010 we were progressing well until the last 4 rounds. We were an ouside finals chance and had form. The 4th last game of the season we played Richmond. A very disapointing game though we won. Richmond were a very bad side then and tired in the finish. However I throught we played very lazy and dispassionate football and the game plan that looked so promising during the middle of the season seemed to be unravelling under moderate pressure and enthusiasm from Richmond. Then we went on to lose the last 3 games in meek fashion. This was also the time Junior got retired, Bruce walking out of the club soon after and the delisting of Miller. Since then its been all downhill.

I think you've summed it up nicely. But I must also say that I used to have a greater expectation of our list even in the final years under Daniher. There was always so much unproven about our list under Bailey for mine and I thought I was being proven wrong in 2010. What I mean is that I always trusted that the lists under daniher would put in a decent effort usually - whereas with our list of Bail, Garland, Batram and the like you never knew what you were going to get.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Norm Smith's Curse

[praha 11,240]

They're not wrong.

Two years ago we were beating the Swans by 100 points. Last year, slamming teams, albeit crap ones, by 10-15 goals.

Now we're losing to Brisbane by 7 goals, Bulldogs by 4 goals (probably 10 if not for the "Jimmy" factor), Tigers by 10 goals.

I think a certain level of accountability should certainly go onto Neeld, even if you think he doesn't deserve it.

We're a pretty awful side. I think the discrepancies between uncontested possessions, tackles, inside 50s is certainly indicative of that.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Cudi_420

[stuie 7,374]

They're not wrong.

Two years ago we were beating the Swans by 100 points. Last year, slamming teams, albeit crap ones, by 10-15 goals.

Now we're losing to Brisbane by 7 goals, Bulldogs by 4 goals (probably 10 if not for the "Jimmy" factor), Tigers by 10 goals.

I think a certain level of accountability should certainly go onto Neeld, even if you think he doesn't deserve it.

We're a pretty awful side. I think the discrepancies between uncontested possessions, tackles, inside 50s is certainly indicative of that.

I've been shot down everywhere for saying we were better last year, so I expect those posters to now say Walls, Dermie, and Roos (with his article today) are all wrong about that too.

[leehow 303]

i've given up reading the papers and listening to footy on the radio. with so many ex-players and journalists looking for a story, the amount of pointless articles is incredible. do you think neeld and the coaching team dont know about the problems that we have? yes we have gone backwards since the sydney game, but there is a reason for it.

essendon went through the same thing after they got rid of matthew knights. they were a team of downhill skiers who won very well some weeks, and got smashed others. that was the path i think we were going down. while it is incredibly frustrating at times (most of the time) watching the demons, im confident that neeld is going down the right path.

our defensive side was terrible, and he has made that a focus, and it is something that will take time. fitness will play a big part in it, as will a bit of time. coming from a basketball background myself, i understand that zone defence and the structures they are trying to implement take time to learn. we have looked stupid at times this year when the opposition has a free man, and one of our guys leaves his man to to go him, only for him to kick the ball over his head to his man, and so on. this is something that will improve once our structures are better, and when players know exactly what their role is, and when to go. its not something you can put into practice overnight, so unfortunately we just have to be patient.

as for people questioning trengove and grimes being appointed captains, it is 4 games into the season, give them some time. there was obviously an issue with our senior group, which neeld identified straight away. we could have gone down the same old track, and left one of them in charge, or we can make the bold decision to give it to a young guy. time will tell whether we made the right decision. i think we did, because i didnt see too much leadership from the older guys last year. and if they cant handle being overlooked for the leadership, which in part was decided by the players, then they should move on and give someone else a go.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

essendon went through the same thing after they got rid of matthew knights. they were a team of downhill skiers who won very well some weeks, and got smashed others. that was the path i think we were going down. while it is incredibly frustrating at times (most of the time) watching the demons, im confident that neeld is going down the right path.

Yeah but we arent winning some weeks. Infact given the four previous performances I cant see us winning before round 13 and judging by how GWS look against the doggies maybe not even then if Im brutally honest.

[Nasher 33,617]

I've been shot down everywhere for saying we were better last year, so I expect those posters to now say Walls, Dermie, and Roos (with his article today) are all wrong about that too.

If you think it's because you said we were better last year that you got shot down then you've got a severe reading comprehension problem.

[Guest Jackie]

I've been shot down everywhere for saying we were better last year, so I expect those posters to now say Walls, Dermie, and Roos (with his article today) are all wrong about that too.

We certainly were better at the begininng but ended up pathetic at the end of the season and just as bad if not worse this season. What ever poison it was, it is still in our system..

[leehow 303]

Yeah but we arent winning some weeks. Infact given the four previous performances I cant see us winning before round 13 and judging by how GWS look against the doggies maybe not even then if Im brutally honest.

i meant under bailey we were winning some weeks. but i agree, i cant see us winning for a long time. what i am looking for is an improvement in our structures, our intensity, and hopefully starting to take the game on a bit more and get a bit closer in the uncontested ball stats. i

[stuie 7,374]

If you think it's because you said we were better last year that you got shot down then you've got a severe reading comprehension problem.

Care to explain at all?

[stuie 7,374]

We certainly were better at the begininng but ended up pathetic at the end of the season and just as bad if not worse this season. What ever poison it was, it is still in our system..

Agree to a point there. 186 will not be forgotten anytime soon. But I'd be willing to take any bet that we'll finish with a much worse record than last year.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Ask a kid, when did the Rot set in?

A: The kid thinks back, his whole life is just 19 years. Oh, the rot set in last year in Geelong.

The truth as I see it is, the Rot never left us.

We were the Fuscias Until Checker Hughes came from the Tigers to Coach, & said to himself, how do I get this mob to play Hard??? first step, get rid of 'Fuscias', & Bring in Demons...

2nd step, tell them to go out and play like real men,,, don't play them if they play like sooks.

Harden them up. bring in some tough bastards.

MY point is the Culture of 'Cushy' is inbred, into the walls of the MCC/G.

We had to import toughness, but when we sack the 'King Tough Bastard', the impotence Ekes out of the walls yet again.

The Rot has been going for well over a hundred years, Except for spells where we bought in some Special Hardness to Lead Us. We got Flags in a few quick spells of success, punctuated by long stints of Failure.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

5 premierships in 6 years can hardly be described as rot LOL

[stuie 7,374]

Ask a kid, when did the Rot set in?

A: The kid thinks back, his whole life is just 19 years. Oh, the rot set in last year in Geelong.

The truth as I see it is, the Rot never left us.

We were the Fuscias Until Checker Hughes came from the Tigers to Coach, & said to himself, how do I get this mob to play Hard??? first step, get rid of 'Fuscias', & Bring in Demons...

2nd step, tell them to go out and play like real men,,, don't play them if they play like sooks.

Harden them up. bring in some tough bastards.

MY point is the Culture of 'Cushy' is inbred, into the walls of the MCC/G.

We had to import toughness, but when we sack the 'King Tough Bastard', the impotence Ekes out of the walls yet again.

The Rot has been going for well over a hundred years, Except for spells where we bought in some Special Hardness to Lead Us. We got Flags in a few quick spells of success, punctuated by long stints of Failure.

Yet you barrack for this team... Why?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If you think it's because you said we were better last year that you got shot down then you've got a severe reading comprehension problem.

Agree entirely. There has been nothing of the sort.

I've been shot down everywhere for saying we were better last year, so I expect those posters to now say Walls, Dermie, and Roos (with his article today) are all wrong about that too.

???

I dont think so Stuie. And Walls and Dermie have said anything new nor incorrect that has not been said by other AFL media commentators.

[stuie 7,374]

Agree entirely. There has been nothing of the sort.

???

I dont think so Stuie. And Walls and Dermie have said anything new nor incorrect that has not been said by other AFL media commentators.

Don't really see what point you're trying to make Rhino? (Although that's nothing new).

I've said in other threads that we were better last year and many a poster has disagreed much to my amazement.

I actually like our list better this year, with Magner and Clark added, but it's a fact we performed better last year.

I'm not talking about where we're at in our development, gameplan blah blah, I'm talking runs on the board.

[bing181 9,328]

Two years ago we were beating the Swans by 100 points. Last year, slamming teams, albeit crap ones, by 10-15 goals.

Now we're losing to Brisbane by 7 goals, Bulldogs by 4 goals (probably 10 if not for the "Jimmy" factor), Tigers by 10 goals.

FFS, we lost to Brisbane, Bulldogs and Richmond last year, the Swans game was a one-off that we couldn't even repeat in 2011, we only had two 10 goal wins over "crap" teams (Adelaide and GC), and we were thrashed from pillar to post by every team that mattered, including the infamous and record-breaking 186. We lost 6 out of the last 7 games last year, and are just continuing on, albeit struggling with a whole new FD, game plan etc. etc.

On top of that, we haven't been able to get the same team on the park that were involved in those wins, and more importantly, the same leading players. (I posted on another thread - re the Richmond game last year, we have something like 6 out of the 9 highest possession getters out).

People see what they want to see

[jnrmac 20,189]

i've given up reading the papers and listening to footy on the radio. with so many ex-players and journalists looking for a story, the amount of pointless articles is incredible. do you think neeld and the coaching team dont know about the problems that we have? yes we have gone backwards since the sydney game, but there is a reason for it.

essendon went through the same thing after they got rid of matthew knights. they were a team of downhill skiers who won very well some weeks, and got smashed others. that was the path i think we were going down. while it is incredibly frustrating at times (most of the time) watching the demons, im confident that neeld is going down the right path.

our defensive side was terrible, and he has made that a focus, and it is something that will take time. fitness will play a big part in it, as will a bit of time. coming from a basketball background myself, i understand that zone defence and the structures they are trying to implement take time to learn. we have looked stupid at times this year when the opposition has a free man, and one of our guys leaves his man to to go him, only for him to kick the ball over his head to his man, and so on. this is something that will improve once our structures are better, and when players know exactly what their role is, and when to go. its not something you can put into practice overnight, so unfortunately we just have to be patient.

as for people questioning trengove and grimes being appointed captains, it is 4 games into the season, give them some time. there was obviously an issue with our senior group, which neeld identified straight away. we could have gone down the same old track, and left one of them in charge, or we can make the bold decision to give it to a young guy. time will tell whether we made the right decision. i think we did, because i didnt see too much leadership from the older guys last year. and if they cant handle being overlooked for the leadership, which in part was decided by the players, then they should move on and give someone else a go.

Your argument is blown out of the water by the fact that in one summer Hird and Bomber got them close to a NAB cup final and winning the first 4 games of the year. They ran out of gas half way through the year but this crud about changing game plan takes 3 or 4 years was disproven then and there.

We were shiite when Bailey came in and when he left but we have gone backwards since DB left. Its scary and the players are dicing with the life of a football cub. If they don't want to commit then get rid of em.Turn em over I say.

The latest Roos article says 19 of the players from the 2010 smashing of the Swans are still on our list, the 186 game says our players are running the asylum. They are clearly responsible for dishing out insipid weak performances week in week out. ABout time they wore some heat from long suffering fans.

[pitmaster 3,578]

Ask a kid, when did the Rot set in?

A: The kid thinks back, his whole life is just 19 years. Oh, the rot set in last year in Geelong.

The truth as I see it is, the Rot never left us.

We were the Fuscias Until Checker Hughes came from the Tigers to Coach, & said to himself, how do I get this mob to play Hard??? first step, get rid of 'Fuscias', & Bring in Demons...

2nd step, tell them to go out and play like real men,,, don't play them if they play like sooks.

Harden them up. bring in some tough bastards.

MY point is the Culture of 'Cushy' is inbred, into the walls of the MCC/G.

We had to import toughness, but when we sack the 'King Tough Bastard', the impotence Ekes out of the walls yet again.

The Rot has been going for well over a hundred years, Except for spells where we bought in some Special Hardness to Lead Us. We got Flags in a few quick spells of success, punctuated by long stints of Failure.

There is something in this.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Will people please understand that it is an entire ethos of a football club that Neeld is trying to change?

Forget the 'pretty' victories over visiting interstate teams of the Bailey era. It was a period of soft, unaccountable football which would have seen us annihilated in finals (if we'd kept him on and somehow managed to limp in to the eight).

The last time this club had a genuine fighting spirit was during the Northey era and that is what Neeld, along with modern tactical strategies, is now bringing to the club. If you think it's all going to magically click after 4 rounds of footy you're dee-luded.

There were some encouraging signs against the Dogs, from some players. This will be the story of the season as Neeld works through the list to see who's got the necessary temperament and hunger to play the new "Demons" footy.

Do yourselves a favour and don't get too hung up on the results this season. You'll be in for a lot more anguish if you do.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I've said in other threads that we were better last year and many a poster has disagreed much to my amazement.

You must be responding to those voices again Stuie.

You are dreaming. I have not seen any poster claim we are better than last year performance wise.

And get over the misbelief you are making the big claims when Blind Freddie could see we were better in patches last year.

[stuie 7,374]

You must be responding to those voices again Stuie.

You are dreaming. I have not seen any poster claim we are better than last year performance wise.

And get over the misbelief you are making the big claims when Blind Freddie could see we were better in patches last year.

Haha ok tough guy, just settle down... I never said it was a "big claim", in fact I said I couldn't believe people thought otherwise, now to explain to your peanut, if you think everyone else thinks pretty much the same thing as you, then you would not think you're making a "big claim".

Maybe do a bit more research, as a fair few posters DID argue with me about that statement. I don't mind what reality you choose to live in but don't try to pi$$ off the roof and tell everyone it's raining.

[Sloth 8]

Bailey's only apparent stratagem was to 'get games into players'. At least under Neeld obvious direction can be seen. I for one would rather this than just winning a handful of games every year and hoping for players to become guns.