I'm not worried as much as I am deeply frustrated.

As a club, things have improved dramatically in recent years. We now have a really good coaching team and football department. I think we have a good CEO, and I think our board is sound.

We've had a few incredibly bad hits this year, but some of them could ultimately turn out to be positives. Our on-field start to the season is the real concern though, particularly given we're hunting for a major sponsor at the moment. I am very confident Neeld will turn it around though, but it's going to take a long time - and that's simply a gut wrenching realisation, given what we've had to endure since 2006.

What really frustrates me though is that we've not seized the opportunity that we had over the past 4 or 5 years to recruit some genuine red hot talent. It was almost like some nerd designing video game algorithms was selecting our players. Reality went out the window, and unrealistic, clever dick strategies kicked in.

How we thought consistently picking under age, skinny players with our top picks was a smart thing to do has always troubled me. The reasoning in not picking Darling over Cook really troubles me. The fact that a dedicated recruitment team failed to even interview Dustin Martin, the much publicised likely third draft pick, when we had picks one and two in that draft troubles me. It shows the process was amateur and lazy and possibly arrogant. That sacking Junior on a flight to Adelaide prior to the Port game, a widely respected leader and club stalwart and former AA player who was still clearly in our best 22 and who still had a big role to play in developing this list, even occurred troubles me. Again, completely amateur stuff. And wholly lacking in proper judgement too.

None of this is hindsight. I thought all of this at the time.

Some conveniently come back at me with EVERY OTHER club would've picked Scully. And EVERY OTHER club overlooked Darling.

My response. Not EVERY OTHER club was in our situation. Not EVERY OTHER club had our needs and our deficiencies. And not EVERY OTHER club has such an ordinary list now, so perhaps not every other club would actually have done what we did, because (1) their lists are much better than ours; and (2) their lists are much better than ours despite us having better draft picks than them over a long period of time.

The thing that also troubles me is that this should not have been that hard. I look at North - they seem not to get too clever - they make practical selections, and I reckon it will pay off for them sooner than it will for us.

And yep Rhino Richards - I reckon I would've done a better job than our recruiters over the past few years. Hard not too to be honest.

I would've just telephoned Kevin Sheehan and said, "these are our needs, and these are our draft picks - who the hell should we pick?". I reckon we'd now have a better list had I been in control and we done that, and it would've saved us a lot of dough. I wouldn't have charged the club a cent for my services - all just for the love of the club.

I'm not worried as much as I am deeply frustrated.

As a club, things have improved dramatically in recent years. We now have a really good coaching team and football department. I think we have a good CEO, and I think our board is sound.

We've had a few incredibly bad hits this year, but some of them could ultimately turn out to be positives. Our on-field start to the season is the real concern though, particularly given we're hunting for a major sponsor at the moment. I am very confident Neeld will turn it around though, but it's going to take a long time - and that's simply a gut wrenching realisation, given what we've had to endure since 2006.

What really frustrates me though is that we've not seized the opportunity that we had over the past 4 or 5 years to recruit some genuine red hot talent. It was almost like some nerd designing video game algorithms was selecting our players. Reality went out the window, and unrealistic, clever dick strategies kicked in.

How we thought consistently picking under age, skinny players with our top picks was a smart thing to do has always troubled me. The reasoning in not picking Darling over Cook really troubles me. The fact that a dedicated recruitment team failed to even interview Dustin Martin, the much publicised likely third draft pick, when we had picks one and two in that draft troubles me. It shows the process was amateur and lazy and possibly arrogant. That sacking Junior on a flight to Adelaide prior to the Port game, a widely respected leader and club stalwart and former AA player who was still clearly in our best 22 and who still had a big role to play in developing this list, even occurred troubles me. Again, completely amateur stuff. And wholly lacking in proper judgement too.

None of this is hindsight. I thought all of this at the time.

Some conveniently come back at me with EVERY OTHER club would've picked Scully. And EVERY OTHER club overlooked Darling.

My response. Not EVERY OTHER club was in our situation. Not EVERY OTHER club had our needs and our deficiencies. And not EVERY OTHER club has such an ordinary list now, so perhaps not every other club would actually have done what we did, because (1) their lists are much better than ours; and (2) their lists are much better than ours despite us having better draft picks than them over a long period of time.

The thing that also troubles me is that this should not have been that hard. I look at North - they seem not to get too clever - they make practical selections, and I reckon it will pay off for them sooner than it will for us.

And yep Rhino Richards - I reckon I would've done a better job than our recruiters over the past few years. Hard not too to be honest.

I would've just telephoned Kevin Sheehan and said, "these are our needs, and these are our draft picks - who the hell should we pick?". I reckon we'd now have a better list had I been in control and we done that, and it would've saved us a lot of dough. I wouldn't have charged the club a cent for my services - all just for the love of the club.

Some Sanity at last Good post couldn,t agree more

The club has been very poor at recruiting. I like you cannot understand the blind faith some here have had in our recruiters over the last years

Well it's hard to gauge success solely by premierships, when there's only one trophy worth winning. By that measure, 17 clubs will ultimately fail each year.

But this is the reason we chose to rebuild our list so dramatically, and why a champion like McDonald was sacked. The club and its supporters were prepared to endure 5+ years of pain in order to give ourselves the best opportunity to win a premiership.

The reason supporters are so disheartened at the moment is because the plan doesn't appear to be working - after 5 years, the 100 point drubbings continue as our prized recruits are outshined by a player off the rookie list.

When I think about this mindset, I spare a thought for the minnows in the English Premier League. How do they value a season, knowing that every trophy will almost certainly be taken out by the big 4? Is it a success just to avoid relegation or do they just savour each victory along the way? Melbourne has given us some wonderful games, stories and moments over the years - are they all worthless without the validation of a premiership? Of course not.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have my concerns. We've gone backwards since 2010 and I can't see where the improvement is coming from. I don't know how much of a factor the loss of James McDonald has been, but it's plainly obvious that importance of true leadership was grossly undervalued. To assume that any player could easily take on the mantle and set the standard for the team was a huge mistake.

This club won 5 flags in 7 years and we now are compared to an EPL Minnow side. Couldn't have said it better myself. Yes i too have seen a few great wins, but it was too often met with a loss the week after to bring us all back to Earth....

I'm not worried as much as I am deeply frustrated.

As a club, things have improved dramatically in recent years. We now have a really good coaching team and football department. I think we have a good CEO, and I think our board is sound.

We've had a few incredibly bad hits this year, but some of them could ultimately turn out to be positives. Our on-field start to the season is the real concern though, particularly given we're hunting for a major sponsor at the moment. I am very confident Neeld will turn it around though, but it's going to take a long time - and that's simply a gut wrenching realisation, given what we've had to endure since 2006.

What really frustrates me though is that we've not seized the opportunity that we had over the past 4 or 5 years to recruit some genuine red hot talent. It was almost like some nerd designing video game algorithms was selecting our players. Reality went out the window, and unrealistic, clever dick strategies kicked in.

How we thought consistently picking under age, skinny players with our top picks was a smart thing to do has always troubled me. The reasoning in not picking Darling over Cook really troubles me. The fact that a dedicated recruitment team failed to even interview Dustin Martin, the much publicised likely third draft pick, when we had picks one and two in that draft troubles me. It shows the process was amateur and lazy and possibly arrogant. That sacking Junior on a flight to Adelaide prior to the Port game, a widely respected leader and club stalwart and former AA player who was still clearly in our best 22 and who still had a big role to play in developing this list, even occurred troubles me. Again, completely amateur stuff. And wholly lacking in proper judgement too.

None of this is hindsight. I thought all of this at the time.

Some conveniently come back at me with EVERY OTHER club would've picked Scully. And EVERY OTHER club overlooked Darling.

My response. Not EVERY OTHER club was in our situation. Not EVERY OTHER club had our needs and our deficiencies. And not EVERY OTHER club has such an ordinary list now, so perhaps not every other club would actually have done what we did, because (1) their lists are much better than ours; and (2) their lists are much better than ours despite us having better draft picks than them over a long period of time.

The thing that also troubles me is that this should not have been that hard. I look at North - they seem not to get too clever - they make practical selections, and I reckon it will pay off for them sooner than it will for us.

And yep Rhino Richards - I reckon I would've done a better job than our recruiters over the past few years. Hard not too to be honest.

I would've just telephoned Kevin Sheehan and said, "these are our needs, and these are our draft picks - who the hell should we pick?". I reckon we'd now have a better list had I been in control and we done that, and it would've saved us a lot of dough. I wouldn't have charged the club a cent for my services - all just for the love of the club.

Well said RB. Did we recruit the players we needed or the players we thought looked good in the newspaper?

Tough question, but it aint looking good right now.

This club won 5 flags in 7 years and we now are compared to an EPL Minnow side. Couldn't have said it better myself. Yes i too have seen a few great wins, but it was too often met with a loss the week after to bring us all back to Earth....

I wasn't comparing us to an EPL minnow side, I was comparing the definition of success between the AFL and EPL and the way a season is valued. Are there any other sporting codes where supporters will willingly sacrifice 5 years in order to improve their chances of achieving ultimate success? I’m not sure...

Either way, since priority picks have been taken off the table – I doubt we’ll ever see a side rebuild its list as pragmatically and swiftly as we did from 2007 to 2010.

I wasn't comparing us to an EPL minnow side, I was comparing the definition of success between the AFL and EPL and the way a season is valued. Are there any other sporting codes where supporters will willingly sacrifice 5 years in order to improve their chances of achieving ultimate success? I’m not sure...

Either way, since priority picks have been taken off the table – I doubt we’ll ever see a side rebuild its list as pragmatically and swiftly as we did from 2007 to 2010.

We are going to need a lot more than 5 years Wise. The 2007 rebuild is far from looking strong at this stage.

A VFL rookie is leading the club...That says a lot about the MFC.

Agreed.

Agreed.

I have seen this cycle happen too many times before Wise, with Free Agency it will be even harder, unless Neeld can turn these kids around.

Another 5 year plan is required

Another 5 year plan is required

Yep. Norm is stilled [censored] off.

Yep. Norm is stilled [censored] off.

IMO, it's not Norm that haunts us but the meaning of God. We bashed one of the most Honest & forthright people we've ever had. A person with such love & passion for the club it gave him incredible truthfulness for his adopted passions. A genuine artist of his field. That honesty gives great insight into what you do.

Our so called leaders of that time, took it upon themselves to smash him & & his beliefs. Pretensions types got rid of him & stuffed the place.

They're still about.

It's thru the honesty of Love & Real Guts, that'll see us thru.

Jimma had this as well, but not the Fire & Brimstone to Coach.

IMO, it's not Norm that haunts us but the meaning of God. We bashed one of the most Honest & forthright people we've ever had. A person with such love & passion for the club it gave him incredible truthfulness for his adopted passions. A genuine artist of his field. That honesty gives great insight into what you do.

Our so called leaders of that time, took it upon themselves to smash him & & his beliefs. Pretensions types got rid of him & stuffed the place.

They're still about.

It's thru the honesty of Love & Real Guts, that'll see us thru.

Jimma had this as well, but not the Fire & Brimstone to Coach.

Who/what the hell are you talking about?

Who/what the hell are you talking about?

Yes i was wondering that!!

Deeluded has written some off the wall gear..This one is right up there!

BUILD THE STATUE OF NORM SMITH AT THE MCG...PRONTO.

I'll try to come up with a few suggestions around our biggest mistakes when looking at the current list and why it's so poor. Chiefly, we have extremely little talent and leadership in the 25 and over bracket at our club. While we can debate the merits of some of Prendergast's picks (and yes, missing out on Darling was a catastrophe most were worried about from day one), our current shambles is less about his picks than about what happened between 1999-2006. I'm not going to touch on player development as a 'mistake', but it's clear that has been sorely lacking as well. Some of what I'm going to list aren't Melbourne mistakes, just negative events that happened outside of our control. Where are our leaders and good players aged 25-32? Here goes...

1999: MFC found guilty of salary cap breaches and stripped of its 1999 first round pick (#3) and second and third round picks in 2000 (#32 and #48). For the record, Aaron Fiora was taken at #3 in 1999, but maybe we would have taken Pavlich, who went at #4. Picks 32 and 48 in 2000 were no names, but missing out on the opportunity to pick anyone outside the two best players in 1999 hurts, especially with the calibre of someone like Pav still around.

2001: MFC spends pick 9 in the 2001 superdraft on Luke Molan, and backs it up by picking Aaron Rogers (not of the superstar from Green Bay fame) at 26. Most articles written on the pick at the time expressed surprise that we had picked Molan much higher than he should have been selected, but Melbourne was after the "toughest player in the draft", and got their man. Neither he or A-Rod would play a game for Melbourne.

2001: A flurry of trades were confusing to decipher, but effectively (thanks Demonwiki), Melbourne received Bizzell, Ellis, Vardy, pick 26 (A-Rod), and pick 55 (Brad Miller). Bizzell was the centrepiece of the ins there, and had some (albeit brief) very good years in red and blue. In exchange, Melbourne lost a homesick Jeff Farmer, Brent Grgic, Troy Simmonds, Pick 17 and 41 (Playfair). What hurts is that #17 turned into James Kelly.

2002: A bit of a stretch here, but Steven Armstrong's injury in the Bali bombings certainly didn't have a positive impact on his playing ability, and a promising early career didn't amount to much in red and blue.

2002: MFC trades Shane Woewodin in a salary dump for pick 14, which is used on Daniel Bell, and takes Nick Smith at 15.

2004: Scott Thompson wants to go home to Adelaide due to family reasons. We essentially got Brent Moloney for him in the trade period, but in Scott Thompson, we lost a player who would have been our best over the last 8 seasons, and an easy choice as captain.

2002: MFC trades Darren Jolly for pick 15 in the draft, a defensible move if you can draft well, given Jolly's output. We used the pick on Lynden Dunn however, after taking Bate at 13. Neither are starting 18 players. Not a whole lot of talent was taken after them, but with that being the case, the Jolly trade doesn't make sense.

2004: Troy Broadbridge passes away.

2005: MFC had a trade completed for Brad Sewell for the meagre sum of Ryan Ferguson. Unfortunately, old Ferg refused to go, and instead of having Sewell currently running around in his seventh season of play in a Melbourne guernsey, we have to rack our brains trying to remember how many games Ferguson played for Melbourne after that ill-fated trade. Thanks for the loyalty, but in this case, no thanks.

There must be other instances I'm forgetting - I'm not writing a thesis on this or anything. But when we look at our sorry team, our leadership void, and our sickening midfield, oh how things could have been different with Scott Thompson, Brad Sewell and James Kelly running around today, stuffing the ball down Pavlich's throat. Hopefully that brightens your day.

I'll try to come up with a few suggestions around our biggest mistakes when looking at the current list and why it's so poor. Chiefly, we have extremely little talent and leadership in the 25 and over bracket at our club. While we can debate the merits of some of Prendergast's picks (and yes, missing out on Darling was a catastrophe most were worried about from day one), our current shambles is less about his picks than about what happened between 1999-2006. I'm not going to touch on player development as a 'mistake', but it's clear that has been sorely lacking as well. Some of what I'm going to list aren't Melbourne mistakes, just negative events that happened outside of our control. Where are our leaders and good players aged 25-32? Here goes...

1999: MFC found guilty of salary cap breaches and stripped of its 1999 first round pick (#3) and second and third round picks in 2000 (#32 and #48). For the record, Aaron Fiora was taken at #3 in 1999, but maybe we would have taken Pavlich, who went at #4. Picks 32 and 48 in 2000 were no names, but missing out on the opportunity to pick anyone outside the two best players in 1999 hurts, especially with the calibre of someone like Pav still around.

2001: MFC spends pick 9 in the 2001 superdraft on Luke Molan, and backs it up by picking Aaron Rogers (not of the superstar from Green Bay fame) at 26. Most articles written on the pick at the time expressed surprise that we had picked Molan much higher than he should have been selected, but Melbourne was after the "toughest player in the draft", and got their man. Neither he or A-Rod would play a game for Melbourne.

2001: A flurry of trades were confusing to decipher, but effectively (thanks Demonwiki), Melbourne received Bizzell, Ellis, Vardy, pick 26 (A-Rod), and pick 55 (Brad Miller). Bizzell was the centrepiece of the ins there, and had some (albeit brief) very good years in red and blue. In exchange, Melbourne lost a homesick Jeff Farmer, Brent Grgic, Troy Simmonds, Pick 17 and 41 (Playfair). What hurts is that #17 turned into James Kelly.

2002: A bit of a stretch here, but Steven Armstrong's injury in the Bali bombings certainly didn't have a positive impact on his playing ability, and a promising early career didn't amount to much in red and blue.

2002: MFC trades Shane Woewodin in a salary dump for pick 14, which is used on Daniel Bell, and takes Nick Smith at 15.

2004: Scott Thompson wants to go home to Adelaide due to family reasons. We essentially got Brent Moloney for him in the trade period, but in Scott Thompson, we lost a player who would have been our best over the last 8 seasons, and an easy choice as captain.

2002: MFC trades Darren Jolly for pick 15 in the draft, a defensible move if you can draft well, given Jolly's output. We used the pick on Lynden Dunn however, after taking Bate at 13. Neither are starting 18 players. Not a whole lot of talent was taken after them, but with that being the case, the Jolly trade doesn't make sense.

2004: Troy Broadbridge passes away.

2005: MFC had a trade completed for Brad Sewell for the meagre sum of Ryan Ferguson. Unfortunately, old Ferg refused to go, and instead of having Sewell currently running around in his seventh season of play in a Melbourne guernsey, we have to rack our brains trying to remember how many games Ferguson played for Melbourne after that ill-fated trade. Thanks for the loyalty, but in this case, no thanks.

There must be other instances I'm forgetting - I'm not writing a thesis on this or anything. But when we look at our sorry team, our leadership void, and our sickening midfield, oh how things could have been different with Scott Thompson, Brad Sewell and James Kelly running around today, stuffing the ball down Pavlich's throat. Hopefully that brightens your day.

Well read. Add to the mix The Junction Oval.

Don't sugar coat the statement Trident. We have achieved no cups since '64. That is the aim of the club, or should be.

We have been so wide of that mark.

What a load of crap.. Grand finals in 1988 and 2000, finals in many years Yes plenty of highs and lows and rebuilds. We all want a cup WYL but they are bloody hard to come by and people can blame what they want re the board, coaches, players, supporters, but we just have to keep going and believing that this footy club will eventually suceed

What a load of crap.. Grand finals in 1988 and 2000, finals in many years Yes plenty of highs and lows and rebuilds. We all want a cup WYL but they are bloody hard to come by and people can blame what they want re the board, coaches, players, supporters, but we just have to keep going and believing that this footy club will eventually suceed

Sure. But we have achieved nothing since '64. The sooner people take that on board and do not accept it as not nearly good enough, this club will survive.

'88 & 2000 were good years yep. But Grand Final Day(s) in both cases were over in the first Q.

Hell in 2001 we didn't even make the finals to at least attempt redemption.

Have we really got only 8 players over the age of 25? Compared to Hawthorn's 19? That is the most staggering statistic. When you have very few older players, and they aren't much good, and neither are the younger players (one factor of this being aforementioned lousy senior players), you have a diabolically bad football list.

Keeping incompetent players on our list.

At years end i think we may have a major clean out.

Green, Davey, Bate, possibly Moloney as free agent etc.

I can see Bate too Bulldogs and Davey & Moloney to Bombers! Green to Calton.

i was shocked to read that matthew Bate was pick 13 and Lynden Dunn was a pick 15... Add Daniel Bell and I have to say they arent really impressive picks.

Moloney has never been a Scotty Thompson - when he left it really annoyed me not because it was reasonable but because he was SUCH a talented player and leader. A ripper of a bloke as well.

We have had some good sides sinec 1964 but since around 2004ish I think we've struggled and seemed a bit lost.

Have we really got only 8 players over the age of 25? Compared to Hawthorn's 19? That is the most staggering statistic. When you have very few older players, and they aren't much good, and neither are the younger players (one factor of this being aforementioned lousy senior players), you have a diabolically bad football list.

Yes the list cleanout since 2007 has been unbalanced sadly. Yes we needed kids badly, but we also needed older players.

When the side is 40 points down in the second quarter and one of our 18 year olds asks Green Jamar or Beamer "what do we do now?" those guys have no answer. Sad but true.

Probably keeping Cameron Schwab on after we had sacked him. I dont fully know for sure but I still think there is some fishy business going on behind the scenes that we dont know about.

Time for a fresh change at the top. McLardy will be great I think but Schwab seems to not have the full support of the players.

Also did we ever hear about the outcome of that business report?? Not sure of the name of it now but I'd bet there are a few hidden answers in there as we surely can't be this bad, can we?

We all want to blame someone.

Boards, CEO, Coaches, Recruiters...we've been blaming the same people for 40 years.

The blame game gets us nowhere.

If there is one message in Jim Stynes' Presidency it is that we have to be united if we are to have even the slightest chance of winning a Premiership.

Bingo & in a nutshell - but sadly many of our "fans" cant see it. Until they do we are going nowhere.

Bingo & in a nutshell - but sadly many of our "fans" cant see it. Until they do we are going nowhere.

I would like to think most of us are united and will do whatever to keep this club alive.

But on the other hand I think patience is beginning to wear very thin, especially for the older generation.

But on the other hand I think patience is beginning to wear very thin, especially for the older generation.

Very, Very good point & why people are looking to lay "blame" - they have run out of "patience".

But I question our "older generations" grasp of modern day AFL football issues - I think they have a very, very poor understanding.