The Davey non- chase was right in front of me and he grabbed his leg and pulled up. I guess though he could have chased and tore a hamstring that makes plenty of sense.

Fair enough then I thought he just decided not to chase

We were equally a bunch of boys last week, and were missing virtually all of our (alleged) quality.

Not happy about what I saw today, but atm it is still the NAB Cup, so I'm not too stressed. If these sorts of crap efforts are still occuring come mid season, I will be very unhappy, but as it stands the season hasn't even started. And the Tiges flogged the Cats today, so........

I will however, admit that I am sick and bloody tired of not giving a yelp against the Hawks, but what are you to expect against such a team. I should hate them, but I can't help watching when they play, as they are truly awesome to watch. They may not have won the flag for a couple years, but they have still been the team I think is best to watch from a pure football point of view, and they are my pick for the flag this year, by a bit of a way too I reckon.

Hawthorn were awesome today/night and should be the flag favourites, they will win it I have no doubt.

Welcome to Demons football, Mr Neeld. Dumb, clumsy football.

You have some work to do with this lot.

Besides Essendon, the Hawks are the one pther team I REALLY want to beat this year. It's clear there is absolutely no way that will happen.

Some of the lowlights:

:- Sylvia blindly hacking kicks around the corner like he did all last year.

:- Fitzpatrick running around like a newborn giraffe. Every single time I've watched this guy, I see him fresh-air an uncontested mark. FFS, can we draft some guys who look like they have some COMMAND and confidence even if it's not warranted?

:- Watts is just going through the motions, pretending to attack the contest but really just fluffing around with the bare minimum of body contact.

:- Nicholson was woeful today.

:- Moloney had a shocker, turned it over heaps, tried to blame others.

:- There were probably only 4-5 guys that beat their opponent today.

:- the lack of defensive pressure all over the ground was concerning. So much better last week.

:- We continually had 3-4 guys going up for the same mark/spoil and nobody crumbing, both ends.

:- Really disappointing crowd for a perfect Saturday arvo, I reckon there was only about 3000 Dee's there.

I actually thought Davey was ok today, the lazy effort at the end of the game I think was just because he was absolutely exhausted. I thought he'd done a hammy for a sec there.

Howe throws himself into every contest and makes a difference - continues to impress.

What a crappy day, I want my $25 back.

I wonder where we'll play next week?

Less that 2 years ago we played Hawthorn in the 3rd last round (2010) and we just got beaten by 21 points - and we were competitive for most of the day.

How have our skills slipped so far behind the Hawks in that time?

I'm certain they weren't that good at kicking the ball two years ago. They seem to have collectively improved their disposal - they are probably the best in the league - so how did they do it? And how did everyone miss Suckling in the draft?

As for us - we seem to fall into the mistake of taking the quick option, instead of trusting our team-mates to set us up into a better position to dispose the ball. The end result - we always look like we are rushing the kick. I hope that's the excuse for the younger guys like Nicholson, but I have trouble explaining such poor disposal from seasoned players like Sylvia, Moloney and Davey.

I don't know how we improve our poor skill levels, but Hawthorn has done it. There must be a way. Perhaps our team needs to develop confidence and trust in each other, so they can receive a pass and know they will not be under the pump when they try to pass it on. They say it takes 1-2 years for a team to adjust to a new game plane, and Neeld's is very different to Bailey's.

I'm trying to be optimistic. Gee it's hard after tonight's match.

One of the problems we had today/night was that every disposal we had was under pressure, they didn't give us one easy kick or hand pass.

They were good, we were bad it was as simple as that; whether we made them look god or they made us look bad remains to be seen but our plan against them just didn't work and never will. They had players camped in the middle unopposed and we sat back and watched them run the ball through the middle of the ground and just leave us for dead. We tried to kick the ball round the boundary and they just squeezed the life out of us and as soon as we lost the ball, which was usually immediately, they just tossed it in to the middle and punished us.

I can't see this type of play winning a great number of games and I certainly can't see it getting us in to finals.

They were too skilled, too strong, too fast, too smart, too everything. We have a very long way to go and some of the players that have been staring at training are simply not good enough at this level.

Just got back from the game. Very disappointing,

1. Umpiring was a disgrace. 3 goals gifted to the Hawks for ducking heads. Frees given to Hawks when the ball went out of bounds off a Hawks player. Ruck infringements all day - Jamar and Fitz were monstered.

2. Hawks have a very impressive zone and they follow it to the letter. We could not get a string of possessions all day. We were harried out of the ball time and time again.

3. Our kick ins were OK - the first kick but then it was totally static.

4. Our midfield was atrocious.

5. The Hawks possessed the ball brilliantly. Hardly stuffed up short passes and when they did there was no pressure on them. Us couldn't be more opposite. Every kick was hurried or a long bomb to a contest.

6. Don't know what the i50's were but I am guessing 60 to 15. Appalling

I am a big critic of Davey but he was far from our worst. Thought he chased and tried hard. Missed a couple of sitters which he should have got. Zero confidence.

In fact all our players tried but just weren't good enough.

Clark was terrific and gave a great contest every time. Stuffed up a few balls when we had position and/or extra men.

Jones was gang tackled every time he got the pill.

Howe is a smart footballer.

Tynan tried hard but is small and was outbodied

We didn't have a player in the top 10 on the ground IMO.

Interested to see what the coaches thought of proceedings

We will get smashed by West Coast in Rd 2. Put the house on it.

That was an absolute demolition job. They were bigger, stronger, harder, more skillful, the list goes on. Pretty [censored] weak performance. And I have watched too many preseasons to simply write it off as 'just the NAB Cup'.

For me, it's not that we lost, its how we lost!! Another thrashing, I'm over the 10 goal and upwards losses. The way we are over come by players with skill is disappointing. The way we struggle to get the ball is the same, disappointing. We have had so many great/very good draft picks and all I see is a group of guys on the field full of late draft picks. Nicho. Crouch. Magner. Moloney. McKenzie. JB. Sellar. Jamar. Davey. Fitzpatrick. Tynan. Etc. I'm not questioning the ability of all these guys (some, not all), but I thought the idea of bottoming out was to get guys who were talented with skills and who are at the top of their game! I just don't see it.

If the new game plan is to throw the ball on the foot, kick it forward,under pressure, then we are stuffed. I have seen in training guys running the ball via handball at the press to get a player free to kick the ball long to advantage. I don't see that in the NAB cup. I'm also worried that our press is too centered down the wing and flanks. A club like cats and hawks will use the middle to beat our press. To easy to coach against. A simple game plan with guys without rounded skills (low draft picks) is easy to beat.

I'm just saying that with the pain we have endured over the last 5 yrs I expect to see footballers with skill, athletic ability, footy smarts and ball getting ability, I just don't see it.

I'm worried for the future as much as this season

Welcome to Demons football, Mr Neeld. Dumb, clumsy football.

You have some work to do with this lot.

Besides Essendon, the Hawks are the one pther team I REALLY want to beat this year. It's clear there is absolutely no way that will happen.

Some of the lowlights:

:- Sylvia blindly hacking kicks around the corner like he did all last year.

:- Fitzpatrick running around like a newborn giraffe. Every single time I've watched this guy, I see him fresh-air an uncontested mark. FFS, can we draft some guys who look like they have some COMMAND and confidence even if it's not warranted?

:- Watts is just going through the motions, pretending to attack the contest but really just fluffing around with the bare minimum of body contact.

:- Nicholson was woeful today.

:- Moloney had a shocker, turned it over heaps, tried to blame others.

:- There were probably only 4-5 guys that beat their opponent today.

:- the lack of defensive pressure all over the ground was concerning. So much better last week.

:- We continually had 3-4 guys going up for the same mark/spoil and nobody crumbing, both ends.

:- Really disappointing crowd for a perfect Saturday arvo, I reckon there was only about 3000 Dee's there.

I actually thought Davey was ok today, the lazy effort at the end of the game I think was just because he was absolutely exhausted. I thought he'd done a hammy for a sec there.

Howe throws himself into every contest and makes a difference - continues to impress.

What a crappy day, I want my $25 back.

I wonder where we'll play next week?

I don't want my money back I want the time I wasted watching the game and seeing that nothing had changed. It was bad enough that we lost but I had a typical smart ass Hawk supporter behind me who just kept rolling out the crap through the entire game.

I can't think of any player that actually beat his opponent so you must be a fairer marker than I am. I have to agree with most of your comments apart from that and cannot understand how Fitzpatrick ever got on to an AFL list.

A complete football lesson guys from a Hawthorn football department with many ex -Dees .Wow if Clark is worth 850k a year what is Franklin worth?

That was an absolute demolition job. They were bigger, stronger, harder, more skillful, the list goes on. Pretty [censored] weak performance. And I have watched too many preseasons to simply write it off as 'just the NAB Cup'.

That's the worry isn't it....we have all seen this before...Neeld is in for a long week....he now has to put words into action....if he can turn this mob around it will be a genius effort...todays game was over in 5 minutes.

Seen that happen for years.

For me, it's not that we lost, its how we lost!! Another thrashing, I'm over the 10 goal and upwards losses. The way we are over come by players with skill is disappointing. The way we struggle to get the ball is the same, disappointing. We have had so many great/very good draft picks and all I see is a group of guys on the field full of late draft picks. Nicho. Crouch. Magner. Moloney. McKenzie. JB. Sellar. Jamar. Davey. Fitzpatrick. Tynan. Etc. I'm not questioning the ability of all these guys (some, not all), but I thought the idea of bottoming out was to get guys who were talented with skills and who are at the top of their game! I just don't see it.

If the new game plan is to throw the ball on the foot, kick it forward,under pressure, then we are stuffed. I have seen in training guys running the ball via handball at the press to get a player free to kick the ball long to advantage. I don't see that in the NAB cup. I'm also worried that our press is too centered down the wing and flanks. A club like cats and hawks will use the middle to beat our press. To easy to coach against. A simple game plan with guys without rounded skills (low draft picks) is easy to beat.

I'm just saying that with the pain we have endured over the last 5 yrs I expect to see footballers with skill, athletic ability, footy smarts and ball getting ability, I just don't see it.

I'm worried for the future as much as this season

Dustin Martin and Nitnat would have been handy out there tonight

Wow just checked the stats.

38 marks to 108

Our highest dreamteam getter was Jones at 66 The Dorks had 12 players get more than that.

Moloney had a shocker

For me, it's not that we lost, its how we lost!! Another thrashing, I'm over the 10 goal and upwards losses. The way we are over come by players with skill is disappointing. The way we struggle to get the ball is the same, disappointing. We have had so many great/very good draft picks and all I see is a group of guys on the field full of late draft picks. Nicho. Crouch. Magner. Moloney. McKenzie. JB. Sellar. Jamar. Davey. Fitzpatrick. Tynan. Etc. I'm not questioning the ability of all these guys (some, not all), but I thought the idea of bottoming out was to get guys who were talented with skills and who are at the top of their game! I just don't see it.

If the new game plan is to throw the ball on the foot, kick it forward,under pressure, then we are stuffed. I have seen in training guys running the ball via handball at the press to get a player free to kick the ball long to advantage. I don't see that in the NAB cup. I'm also worried that our press is too centered down the wing and flanks. A club like cats and hawks will use the middle to beat our press. To easy to coach against. A simple game plan with guys without rounded skills (low draft picks) is easy to beat.

I'm just saying that with the pain we have endured over the last 5 yrs I expect to see footballers with skill, athletic ability, footy smarts and ball getting ability, I just don't see it.

I'm worried for the future as much as this season

That was one of the worst pre season games I can remember, they toyed with us and if they wanted to could have really buried us, our players seem to have no composure at all and as you said we've suffered years of mediocrity to get some talent but it seems to have avoided us.

And the game is well and truly over.

Further discussion in the post match thread.

Thanks.