If we are talking champion players like Judd, Ablett jnr, Matthews, Hird, Voss etc.. no we do not have one on our list who is showing that kind of potential. But as has been mentioned by billy2803, the last two premiers have no had no players of that quality.

However, I believe that Trengove, Gysberts and Bail have the greatest up-side, and I want to see more of Blease and Tapscott. We have ther bread-and-butter players already in Moloney, Jones and Sylvia (who should be an elite midfielder by now) but we need some class coming out of stoppages, or running the lines and breaking forward. Our desperate need is a Burgoyne/Pendlebury type player who is tallish and whose skills in traffic rarely let them down. We do not have this quality on our list currently as far as I can see.

Also, Josh Tynan has shown a bit of class and courage in the intra club, then the NAB Cup. It could be 2 years away for him but he might have a touch of class. Anyone know what his disposal is like under pressure?

This was one of the reasons I made this thread - not to discuss which of the good midfielders can improve, thinking outside the box who can possible be that great player the team lacks.

Watts has the potential to be the player you say we lack in my opinion. Frawley* could be a Judd like midfielder and Bail like Swan. Can't see it happening with all three, but one could surprise.

*as said earlier I would keep Frawley in the backline, I just think he has the potential to be a champion midfielder.

"Bartel, Sewell, Montagna, Corey, and Selwood are there but not an Ablett or a Judd..."

Comparing our midfield to those first five names.

Do you 'hope' they are the players our current crop will become?

Or are they 'there'?

Which one is it RP?

Which do you think?

You just read it wrong. And you now know you have because of the rhetorical nature of this post I am replying to.

I think a popular refrain from rpfc over the last few years is that we have no stars, haven't had any for a while, and will suffer the indignity of being a 'good side' and not a 'great side' until we do.

Your last post about the three potential star mids on our list was a promising step-up, stmj.

Trying to trip up posters with semantical arguments that don't follow is not.

Edited February 28, 201213 yr by rpfc

McKenzie 37 games (battled with injury)

Trengove 37

Grimes 32 (injuries)

Bail 18 (injuries)

Gysberts 18 (injuries)

Tapscott 15 (injuries)

Nicholson 9

Blease 5 (broken leg...)

Viney 0

GIVE THEM TIME. How can we be writing off our midfield when these players are averaging barely a full seasons worth of games between them, and many have struggled to have a consistent uninjured run during their time with us?

I'm patient and i have faith, i wish others did too

Im not sure if it was directed at me this post but you have already answered your own question as to why Im worried. Consistent injuries is a bit of a concern.

Which do you think?

You just read it wrong. And you now know you have because of the rhetorical nature of this post I am replying to.

I think a popular refrain from rpfc over the last few years is that we have no stars, haven't had any for a while, and will suffer the indignity of being a 'good side' and not a 'great side' until we do.

Your last post about the three potential star mids on our list was a promising step-up, stmj.

Trying to trip up posters with semantical arguments that don't follow is not.

I'll leave it.

Apologies.

Just to get back to the OP...

Watts - I see a fair bit of James Hird in Watts. Quick, smart, tall, great skill, doesn't make bad decisions. Physically he would be a nightmare to match up on. He may be pigeon holed as a KPP because of his height, but I think he can be a tall Hird/Pendlebury

Bail - Long shot to become top class, as I currently don't have him in my best 22, but is quick and has fantastic endurance. Physically seems to be a bit like swan (with less ink and a few more brain cells), and there may be a small chance he could become the same type of player.

Frawley - Let me firstly say that I think he will be the best defender in the AFL over the next decade, and one of the best players in the AFL, however I often wonder how he would go in the midfield. He has size and strength, yet he is agile, has good skills and makes good decisions. It would really rob the backline so it shouldn't happen, but I think he could be a chance of being an exceptional midfielder, able to tear games apart.

Thoughts?

Watts would be an interesting mid, I don't see the hunger for the hard ball in him which may be the end of discussion but he is very smart on the field, and his skills are obviously in the top echelon of players. Other than ocasionally on a wing, I don't see it happening.

I agree on Bail, his running capacity is elite and he gets to the right areas, if we have the chance to develop a Dane Swan- like player, it will be Bail.

Now, Frawley is a tremendous footy player and reads the play quite well. But getting the footy in the middle may elude him. And we will never know, because he will be a regular AA fullback and flag winning defender.

Just to get back to the OP...

Watts would be an interesting mid, I don't see the hunger for the hard ball in him which may be the end of discussion but he is very smart on the field, and his skills are obviously in the top echelon of players. Other than ocasionally on a wing, I don't see it happening.

I agree on Bail, his running capacity is elite and he gets to the right areas, if we have the chance to develop a Dane Swan- like player, it will be Bail.

Now, Frawley is a tremendous footy player and reads the play quite well. But getting the footy in the middle may elude him. And we will never know, because he will be a regular AA fullback and flag winning defender.

Think Pavlich - Could be interesting indeed. But likewise I dont see it happening.

I say we throw Big Steph Martin in the midfield and watch him carve the middle up. In my opinion he's our elite "A"grade star who is gonna be our Pavlich/Goodes. The kid is a GUN.

I say we throw Big Steph Martin in the midfield and watch him carve the middle up. In my opinion he's our elite "A"grade star who is gonna be our Pavlich/Goodes. The kid is a GUN.

Interesting, that's what I was looking for. Has pace, size and brains, could work. I think his best position is full back, like Tarrant, I don't think he has the skill by hand or foot to be a gun midfielder, but would like to see him given a run.

Interesting, that's what I was looking for. Has pace, size and brains, could work. I think his best position is full back, like Tarrant, I don't think he has the skill by hand or foot to be a gun midfielder, but would like to see him given a run.

When in the ruck, Martin plays around the ground like another rover. He does it well. More the Jeff White style without the 'behind the ball' tactic that Daniher employed far too often.

So in that respect I agree, but if we are moving into the 'he should play as a rover when not rucking' I would say - when does he rest?

And we might be able to manage it so that he plays 30% in the ruck and 40% in the forward line (rest) and 30% on the ball with Jamar but it would have to be well monitored.

Especially if teams run people through him.

When in the ruck, Martin plays around the ground like another rover. He does it well. More the Jeff White style without the 'behind the ball' tactic that Daniher employed far too often.

So in that respect I agree, but if we are moving into the 'he should play as a rover when not rucking' I would say - when does he rest?

And we might be able to manage it so that he plays 30% in the ruck and 40% in the forward line (rest) and 30% on the ball with Jamar but it would have to be well monitored.

Especially if teams run people through him.

I think the suggestion was he would not be rucking if he was playing as a midfeilder - more a Pavlich midfielder than a Jeff White

Big Jamar, Maloney, Magner, Sylvia and Martin in the middle of the ground= We Will Never Be Pushed Around and Play Bruise Free Footy again.

Watts could be a taller Pendlebury, but I don't think the footy dept will develop him to be that.

I think the suggestion was he would not be rucking if he was playing as a midfeilder - more a Pavlich midfielder than a Jeff White

Oh, I don't see him as a Pavlich style mid.

He is a very good follower, and good at linking up and being apart of attacks forward, but Pavlich can get his own footy, has a faultless footy IQ and break through tackles. The guy can do whatever he wants.

I don't think Martin can do that.

And if Martin isn't rucking, what is he doing? Purely in as a mid? I don't think he would cut it as a pure mid. I would let him be a back-up ruck and forward/ute for the next ten years if his current form holds.

Very valuable.

Slyvia tappy moloney and jamar in the middle don't think many op players would push these boys around

Sylvia's best is easily A grade either as a forward or as a midfielder

I am not sure we have any player on our list who is capable of being an elite mid.

Viney excluded, IMO Sylvia and Frawley are the best chances.

Trengove will be a top liner, but I think he lacks a bit of pace.

Bail is exciting but lacks a little polish.

Martin is a pipe dreama and is better being led to the ball.

Watts is too outside.

Moloney has peaked IMO.

Tapscott can't get fit enough and is not overly quick.

Gysberts lacks polish and size.

Big Jamar, Maloney, Magner, Sylvia and Martin in the middle of the ground= We Will Never Be Pushed Around and Play Bruise Free Footy again.

Its just that every other team will run rings around us with that speedy line up.....

Would like to add to the Watts discussion.

Looking at our forward setup with Clark, Martin and Jamar alternating down there when not in the ruck, we have Jurrah, Howe, Sylvia as options, I just wonder where Watts will fit in. I think they've got to keep developing him by settling him in a position. I'm wondering if he would be better suited for a run down back (ie centre half back) rather than middle, by making him more accountable. He has efficient kicking, will be led to the ball, and will be able to set play up. Can mark, getting to contests and reading play will be his strong suit and hopefully gains confidence.

Clark is our go to forward now, it's clear. I'm of the view that Watts may provide more value across half back. For now.

I just recall him playing there against North and yeah he got caught out from behind once but he did ok and with the tall timber we have now I would like to see him tried there.

Would like to add to the Watts discussion.

Looking at our forward setup with Clark, Martin and Jamar alternating down there when not in the ruck, we have Jurrah, Howe, Sylvia as options, I just wonder where Watts will fit in. I think they've got to keep developing him by settling him in a position. I'm wondering if he would be better suited for a run down back (ie centre half back) rather than middle, by making him more accountable. He has efficient kicking, will be led to the ball, and will be able to set play up. Can mark, getting to contests and reading play will be his strong suit and hopefully gains confidence.

Clark is our go to forward now, it's clear. I'm of the view that Watts may provide more value across half back. For now.

I just recall him playing there against North and yeah he got caught out from behind once but he did ok and with the tall timber we have now I would like to see him tried there.

Maybe HT..... CHB: Watts, CHF: Clark? - very mobile, FF: Sellar/Howe? With ruckman resting in the pocket??

He is a very good follower, and good at linking up and being apart of attacks forward, but Pavlich can get his own footy, has a faultless footy IQ and break through tackles. The guy can do whatever he wants.

I don't think Martin can do that.

And if Martin isn't rucking, what is he doing? Purely in as a mid? I don't think he would cut it as a pure mid. I would let him be a back-up ruck and forward/ute for the next ten years if his current form holds.

Very valuable.

I agree with all of that. We know he's a capable back up ruck and that Neeld has him in the forward equation, it is the utility aspect you mention which intrigues me the most though.

If our gameplan is one of using the boundary line then I think Martin (when not rucking) gives us a lot of value when we want to centre the ball on the odd occasion we want to mix things up. The beauty of Martin is not only that he has the hight and is starting to interact with other players but he also attacks the footy at ground level and more importantly in the air - he doesn't wait for the ball to come to him. When you consider the wide boundary of the MCG having a player like Martin as a centering option in the corridore is quite an asset especially if a lot of the passes hang.

I'm not suggesting him as a loose player but IMO a utility role has legs.

I am not sure we have any player on our list who is capable of being an elite mid.

Viney excluded, IMO Sylvia and Frawley are the best chances.

Trengove will be a top liner, but I think he lacks a bit of pace.

Bail is exciting but lacks a little polish.

Martin is a pipe dreama and is better being led to the ball.

Watts is too outside.

Moloney has peaked IMO.

Tapscott can't get fit enough and is not overly quick.

Gysberts lacks polish and size.

That is one of the best summaries I have seen on here in a long time.

There is no "player bashing", just fair and reasonable assessments.

I agree H_T David Neitz began his career there and then returned to the forward line a better and stronger player

Maybe HT..... CHB: Watts, CHF: Clark? - very mobile, FF: Sellar/Howe? With ruckman resting in the pocket??

Clark is our FF. I just think if they're all up and running, Neeld can mix it up. Sellar I would prefer to see more of, but there is the option of back for a tall or up forward if need be. Howe is an interesting one. For now for me there is so many questions that need answering. And our recruiting has been the catalyst in part for this. Ie makes it exciting . Martin/Jamar up forward will be important for our structure IMO.

Howe now brown cow

Howe now brown cow

I used to play footy with Howie at Hobart... The boy can play the FF position very very well, dont you worry about that!!!

Trade Watts for an Elite mid

Feasible and will solve 2 problems at once