On 01/02/2012 at 04:20, Thomo said:

Would be a very nice idea, however comercially it may be better to do a Michael Clarke and go with the clean skin to grab attention.

very good idea - look at the exposure that give him and in-turn........Spartan!

  On 01/02/2012 at 04:20, Thomo said:

Would be a very nice idea, however comercially it may be better to do a Michael Clarke and go with the clean skin to grab attention.

Didnt he do the Magrath foundation at Sydney?

  On 01/02/2012 at 04:20, Thomo said:

Would be a very nice idea, however comercially it may be better to do a Michael Clarke and go with the clean skin to grab attention.

Maybe we go with the clean skin against GWS and score 329...

  On 01/02/2012 at 04:20, Thomo said:

Would be a very nice idea, however comercially it may be better to do a Michael Clarke and go with the clean skin to grab attention.

I see it as quite the opposite. I look at Sydney FC in the A-League who have no shirt sponsor where every other club does. Such a

big market as Sydney, I look at it more from the perspective of "This must be a woefully run organisation if they cant even

organise a major sponsor for their kit"

Great to hear we are indeed close to gaining a second major sponsor with regards to our new Chinese connection.CS stated at the AGM last night a signature was close and felt it would be in operation for Round One.

  On 31/01/2012 at 04:21, billy2803 said:

Agree RP. But in terms of regular exposure in the media, and in particular print media, Super 15's gets a hell of a lot more coverage than AFL. The QLD Reds are massive up here, and when reading the Courier Mail on a daily basis, you often have to go in 5 or 6 pages from the back (or what I call the true front page!), until you get to the AFL section, passing 2 pages totally dedicated to Bronco's, then 1 page of NRL, then 2 pages of Reds, and a page of Super 15's.

The point I challenged was about a potential international sponsor, and how much more coverage they get in Qld if they sponsored AFL over Super 15's. It's not true.

Further to my above post, I thought I'd share an insight for our southern friends in the way our print media rolls in Queensland.

Jimmy's stepping down yesterday was by far the biggest news circling AFL ranks yesterday. Today's Courier Mail had a back page full of NRL (this Saturday is teh all stars game). Inside the back page - more RL, next page is a full page (except a small article at the bottom on the T20 match last night) devoted to Black Caviar and how she is worth more than what she's actually name after. Next page = more RL, and the next, you guessed it, more RL. The next page has 1/2 an article on RL, and half a page about car racing. Finally, on the 7th page in from the back, just underneath the 3/4 page of Rugby Union, is a small article, 2 columns wide and about 2 inches high, of Stynes stepping down. FWIW, the following page is basicallt dedicated to A-League.

Sponsoring a non-QLD based AFL team gives you minimal exposure in this location, and would definitely not be more than a non-QLD based Super XV team. Especially, as Demonator rightly indicated, as the Reds are doing so well in the Super XV competition.

  On 02/02/2012 at 01:44, billy2803 said:

Further to my above post, I thought I'd share an insight for our southern friends in the way our print media rolls in Queensland.

Jimmy's stepping down yesterday was by far the biggest news circling AFL ranks yesterday. Today's Courier Mail had a back page full of NRL (this Saturday is teh all stars game). Inside the back page - more RL, next page is a full page (except a small article at the bottom on the T20 match last night) devoted to Black Caviar and how she is worth more than what she's actually name after. Next page = more RL, and the next, you guessed it, more RL. The next page has 1/2 an article on RL, and half a page about car racing. Finally, on the 7th page in from the back, just underneath the 3/4 page of Rugby Union, is a small article, 2 columns wide and about 2 inches high, of Stynes stepping down. FWIW, the following page is basicallt dedicated to A-League.

Sponsoring a non-QLD based AFL team gives you minimal exposure in this location, and would definitely not be more than a non-QLD based Super XV team. Especially, as Demonator rightly indicated, as the Reds are doing so well in the Super XV competition.

Thanks for that billy. You make some interesting points. Queensland papers have not changed since i stayed with my Grandparents on school holidays at the sunshine coast in the 70's.!!

RL does not get high attendance numbers. Never has. But it does still get massive exposure in media circles. As long as a logo is in a newspaper or on a TV screen a sponsor is happy. A chinese company would weigh up RL, RU, & AFL on fairly even ground depending on the product demographic.

  On 02/02/2012 at 02:10, why you little said:

Thanks for that billy. You make some interesting points. Queensland papers have not changed since i stayed with my Grandparents on school holidays at the sunshine coast in the 70's.!!

RL does not get high attendance numbers. Never has. But it does still get massive exposure in media circles. As long as a logo is in a newspaper or on a TV screen a sponsor is happy. A chinese company would weigh up RL, RU, & AFL on fairly even ground depending on the product demographic.

Cheers WYL. The point of my thread was not to sound like a smart arse, but to make people understand, especially those that live in Victoria, that AFL doesn't have it all their own way when it comes to Australia-wide coverage. Placing huge price tags on sponsorhip packages is great if that company is specifically after the Victorian market, but if they are trying to crack in to other states as well, that they may not get the massive bang for their buck that they want.

LG was probably a great example of that when they sponsored us. From memory, they sponosred a number of codes at the same time, and that included international codes. Instead of spending all their money on us, and hoping that they got exposure in other states, they probably negotiated a cheaper price, so that they could spread their name between a variety of sporting codes.

As it currently stands, I'd be happy to reduce our price tag slightly, especially if the asking price is around the $2m that some on here believe it's worth. Unfortuantely, when investors are talking multi-million dollar deals, they have to feel in control of negotiations. While we have a bare space on our left [censored], it would be dangerous practice to be in a situation where we think we are in total control. Nb. I'm not saying we have to give the space away for nothing, just need to be resonable.

  On 02/02/2012 at 02:37, billy2803 said:

Cheers WYL. The point of my thread was not to sound like a smart arse, but to make people understand, especially those that live in Victoria, that AFL doesn't have it all their own way when it comes to Australia-wide coverage. Placing huge price tags on sponsorhip packages is great if that company is specifically after the Victorian market, but if they are trying to crack in to other states as well, that they may not get the massive bang for their buck that they want.

LG was probably a great example of that when they sponsored us. From memory, they sponosred a number of codes at the same time, and that included international codes. Instead of spending all their money on us, and hoping that they got exposure in other states, they probably negotiated a cheaper price, so that they could spread their name between a variety of sporting codes.

As it currently stands, I'd be happy to reduce our price tag slightly, especially if the asking price is around the $2m that some on here believe it's worth. Unfortuantely, when investors are talking multi-million dollar deals, they have to feel in control of negotiations. While we have a bare space on our left [censored], it would be dangerous practice to be in a situation where we think we are in total control. Nb. I'm not saying we have to give the space away for nothing, just need to be resonable.

I agree. LG would have got nothing from AFL in Qld back in it's time. Got to spread the wealth. But who knows what our CEO has in store. I still say the MFC has more prestige than any rugby team. But i am bias! I do admire the storm for surviving the Waldren scandal. Belamy is a fine man.

Although, didn't this argument come out of the Brumbries losing Huawei?

I find little in local press on Super XV other than the Brumbies. The Sydney press is entirely focussed on the Waratahs (reason why HSBC is flooding money in there) and the Reds are mentioned twice during the year or whenever Quade Cooper does something stupid/brillant.

I find Super XV as parochial as it is set-up to be. An entire state/territory with teams? Except for the Rebels and the..whatever the Perth one is called...

  On 02/02/2012 at 02:54, rpfc said:

Although, didn't this argument come out of the Brumbries losing Huawei?

I find little in local press on Super XV other than the Brumbies. The Sydney press is entirely focussed on the Waratahs (reason why HSBC is flooding money in there) and the Reds are mentioned twice during the year or whenever Quade Cooper does something stupid/brillant.

I find Super XV as parochial as it is set-up to be. An entire state/territory with teams? Except for the Rebels and the..whatever the Perth one is called...

If the Sydney press reported on Quade Cooper doing something brilliant or stupid, they'd be in there every week! He's either red hot or ice cold!!!

I said ages ago on this thread (or a thread similar), that it's about the return on investment. If an Asian company trying to crack in to the Australian market have a sponsorship/marketing budget of say $2m a year, are they going to invest all that in to the MFC, or split that bucket of cash between the most covered/publicised codes in certain areas. It's then up to CS to come back and sell the benefits of us getting a majority of that money becuase of certain reasons, and hoping that they agree.

The Asian economy is going well, but that doesn't mean they have deep buckets to be pouring in to Australian sports sponsorships. Where we can get the best out of it is that fact that there are a lot of individual buckets in Asia, and getting 5 companies on board at $500k each a year, is a lot better and probably more achievable than 1 company coming in with $2m a year.

  On 02/02/2012 at 03:03, billy2803 said:

If the Sydney press reported on Quade Cooper doing something brilliant or stupid, they'd be in there every week! He's either red hot or ice cold!!!

I said ages ago on this thread (or a thread similar), that it's about the return on investment. If an Asian company trying to crack in to the Australian market have a sponsorship/marketing budget of say $2m a year, are they going to invest all that in to the MFC, or split that bucket of cash between the most covered/publicised codes in certain areas. It's then up to CS to come back and sell the benefits of us getting a majority of that money becuase of certain reasons, and hoping that they agree.

The Asian economy is going well, but that doesn't mean they have deep buckets to be pouring in to Australian sports sponsorships. Where we can get the best out of it is that fact that there are a lot of individual buckets in Asia, and getting 5 companies on board at $500k each a year, is a lot better and probably more achievable than 1 company coming in with $2m a year.

I get that, but those teams can look at them and say "you can be the major sponsor for two clubs with that money and get exposure, or you can be minor sponsors to 5 clubs and be overlooked by people who only see the two brands that sponsor clubs (at least in AFL)."

Again, that is a ROI argument that is valid. These big companies only care about being front and centre.

If you are looking at bang for bucks youhave to look at your market and determine where the growth i.e profits will come from. Many ould be surprised to know Victoria stil is the strength of the nation. Growth whether capital or population is still with Melbourne ahead of some other areas. Were not streets ahead but we are still growing as an economy better than other states all but WA ( who leads everyone just about ) purely on the basis of the mining industry..

A Chinese newby ( to Oz ) would in all likelyhood never put all eggs in one basket. Some money will go tosome form of Rugger but not necessarily to a club, it might be a code sponsor etc.. In AFL such funds will only get oyu a primary spot on a single club's guernsey. The Chinese companies are no mugs they will most probably decide on one major sponsorship and a smattering of smaller ones as brand reinforcement . One to lead the charge, others to back it up.

it all comes down to, which brand wants to break out on its own as opposed to a life as OEM. This is where Smasung and LG were many years ago. Unknown here but huge in their own industrial backyards.

The Chinese will take note of who has put in the effort (if any ) Has there been any determined efforts by any clubs in other codes ( that we know of ) to develop a relatonship with the big red lion ?

My understanding of the Sino way is theyll seek some form of vehicle (entity for their advertising ) which has a track record and stability. Theres is a slow and steady wins the race type attitude.

We arent putting time and resources into China for nothing. It will all come to fruition...just not overnight.

They ( Chinese ) take the timing of things very seriously and symbolism carries much currency too.

It will be interesting.

  On 02/02/2012 at 02:54, rpfc said:

Although, didn't this argument come out of the Brumbries losing Huawei? I find little in local press on Super XV other than the Brumbies. The Sydney press is entirely focussed on the Waratahs (reason why HSBC is flooding money in there) and the Reds are mentioned twice during the year or whenever Quade Cooper does something stupid/brillant. I find Super XV as parochial as it is set-up to be. An entire state/territory with teams? Except for the Rebels and the..whatever the Perth one is called...

Western Farce

  On 02/02/2012 at 03:27, rpfc said:

I get that, but those teams can look at them and say "you can be the major sponsor for two clubs with that money and get exposure, or you can be minor sponsors to 5 clubs and be overlooked by people who only see the two brands that sponsor clubs (at least in AFL)."

Again, that is a ROI argument that is valid. These big companies only care about being front and centre.

Sorry RP, I may be missing what you're saying. Realistcally, across Australia in general, there are 2 major sporting codes, AFL and NRL. In QLD, this isn't the case, but in other parts of Australia such as Vic and Tas, there is only 1 code - AFL! So, if I were an Asian investor, and I had $2m to spend on developing a brand in Aust through sporting sponsorships, I'd be looking at an AFL club and an NRL club. I wouldn't be looking at a club in every other code, and I have not indcated that. Then I would look at who gets what. 50/50? 60/40? That's up to CS to get the best deal from, and use the "we get X much exposure, blah blah".

My point is that if the above scenario is close to the mark, which it is more than possible it is, that we may find we are getting a new major sponsor on bard for $1m. I admit - it's obviously hard to know exact figures, but I'm basing it on B59's assumption that the FoJ is worth $2m.

Which lead me to my next point about the 5 companies putting in $500k each. Asian businesses can be quite clicky, and it wouldn't surprise if CS was meeting with more than 1 company at a single meeting. If a group of investors said "you want $2m for a major sponsorship, well, us 5 companies will put in $500k each, and we all want major sponsorship privilleages", what would you do? We're trying to develop our brand in China, and out of S' business trip to China, he managed to get a major sponsor "group" who are paying $2.5m a year, we'd all be high-fiving and chest pumping! It's then up to CS to negotiate how to generate maximum exposure for all investors, which could be for all away games company 1 & 2 get half each, and all home games the other 2 go half and half, and then the 5th party gets something else. Then, as an added incentive (as part of CS' negotitaions) would be that if we were to make finals, 1 company can have the sole rights to the FoJ at an extra cost (maybe $200k per game?).

It's all hypothetical, and reality is that in 2012, it won't be anything like what I have just written! But, it could just be something for the MFC to consider as we continue to expand in the Chinese market.

  On 02/02/2012 at 03:53, DemonWA said:

Western Farce

There you go.

And what a relevant organisation they have been.

And they are neither a state nor a city, they are general region...

"We are going to sponsor that general area over there."

"What left?"

"Depending on which way you are facing, yes."

"How much of 'left' are you sponsoring?"

"Walk left."

"Ok...I have reached the Indian Ocean."

"That's where it stops."

Inspiring stuff Super XV. Inspiring Stuff. Something to rally around...

  On 02/02/2012 at 01:44, billy2803 said:

Further to my above post, I thought I'd share an insight for our southern friends in the way our print media rolls in Queensland. Jimmy's stepping down yesterday was by far the biggest news circling AFL ranks yesterday. Today's Courier Mail had a back page full of NRL (this Saturday is teh all stars game). Inside the back page - more RL, next page is a full page (except a small article at the bottom on the T20 match last night) devoted to Black Caviar and how she is worth more than what she's actually name after. Next page = more RL, and the next, you guessed it, more RL. The next page has 1/2 an article on RL, and half a page about car racing. Finally, on the 7th page in from the back, just underneath the 3/4 page of Rugby Union, is a small article, 2 columns wide and about 2 inches high, of Stynes stepping down. FWIW, the following page is basicallt dedicated to A-League. Sponsoring a non-QLD based AFL team gives you minimal exposure in this location, and would definitely not be more than a non-QLD based Super XV team. Especially, as Demonator rightly indicated, as the Reds are doing so well in the Super XV competition.

FWIW Jimmy had the whole back page of the West Australian today. t20 page 2

  On 02/02/2012 at 03:59, rpfc said:

There you go.

And what a relevant organisation they have been.

And they are neither a state nor a city, they are general region...

"We are going to sponsor that general area over there."

"What left?"

"Depending on which way you are facing, yes."

"How much of 'left' are you sponsoring?"

"Walk left."

"Ok...I have reached the Indian Ocean."

"That's where it stops."

Inspiring stuff Super XV. Inspiring Stuff. Something to rally around...

Come up here (South East Qld) and try and sponsor the Reds. Hope you've got a few bucks in the bank! Just because super XV isn't big in Vic, WA or the ACT, doesn't mean that they lack it throughout the rest of the country. I can assure you, they more than make up for it in the northern state.

  On 02/02/2012 at 04:00, DemonWA said:

FWIW Jimmy had the whole back page of the West Australian today. t20 page 2

Cool, interesting to know. Thanks DWA.

I'm amazed actually, I thought that if something happened outside of WA it meant that you would have to read it in the World News section! Just kidding

  On 02/02/2012 at 03:59, rpfc said:

And they are neither a state nor a city, they are general region.....

another pack of clowns in WA has the same sort of thing going on...West Coast Eagles

Souless franchise but due to their success i'm sure their sponsors are happy with the investment

  On 02/02/2012 at 03:54, billy2803 said:

Sorry RP, I may be missing what you're saying. Realistcally, across Australia in general, there are 2 major sporting codes, AFL and NRL. In QLD, this isn't the case, but in other parts of Australia such as Vic and Tas, there is only 1 code - AFL! So, if I were an Asian investor, and I had $2m to spend on developing a brand in Aust through sporting sponsorships, I'd be looking at an AFL club and an NRL club. I wouldn't be looking at a club in every other code, and I have not indcated that. Then I would look at who gets what. 50/50? 60/40? That's up to CS to get the best deal from, and use the "we get X much exposure, blah blah". My point is that if the above scenario is close to the mark, which it is more than possible it is, that we may find we are getting a new major sponsor on bard for $1m. I admit - it's obviously hard to know exact figures, but I'm basing it on B59's assumption that the FoJ is worth $2m. Which lead me to my next point about the 5 companies putting in $500k each. Asian businesses can be quite clicky, and it wouldn't surprise if CS was meeting with more than 1 company at a single meeting. If a group of investors said "you want $2m for a major sponsorship, well, us 5 companies will put in $500k each, and we all want major sponsorship privilleages", what would you do? We're trying to develop our brand in China, and out of S' business trip to China, he managed to get a major sponsor "group" who are paying $2.5m a year, we'd all be high-fiving and chest pumping! It's then up to CS to negotiate how to generate maximum exposure for all investors, which could be for all away games company 1 & 2 get half each, and all home games the other 2 go half and half, and then the 5th party gets something else. Then, as an added incentive (as part of CS' negotitaions) would be that if we were to make finals, 1 company can have the sole rights to the FoJ at an extra cost (maybe $200k per game?). It's all hypothetical, and reality is that in 2012, it won't be anything like what I have just written! But, it could just be something for the MFC to consider as we continue to expand in the Chinese market.

I'm just saying that at some point companies will pony up the cash for reasons that may outweigh good ROI. If there is a company with $2m to spend and they say "hey, we will sponsor two teams!" and then company TRUM and company PED each say "we have $1.5m to spend but we want to keep competitiors out of a certain market - I will offer this team the whole $1.5m," then the original company will be the major sponsor to no-one and one of those companies may be playing around in one of their favourite markets as a competitor.

Sponsors rarely get value for money, it's become more about who is not sponsoring a team when a company sponsors a team.

  On 02/02/2012 at 04:02, billy2803 said:

Come up here (South East Qld) and try and sponsor the Reds. Hope you've got a few bucks in the bank! Just because super XV isn't big in Vic, WA or the ACT, doesn't mean that they lack it throughout the rest of the country. I can assure you, they more than make up for it in the northern state.

Great.

They gave Perth a club!

That's what I am saying, and all I am saying. It was a tangent from the argument we were having.

Never underestimate Rugby in the Northern States. It is huge. Kerry Packer made a lot of his $$$ off the back of it. In Melbourne we go to games and we watch other games. Up north they watch it at home or at a leagues club.

Exposure to Advertising signs is still achieved both ways.

  On 02/02/2012 at 04:10, rpfc said:

They gave Perth a club!

I dont believe the NRL western Reds (Red kangaroo) franchse had anything to do with the Queensland Red's (Koala) union side?

  On 02/02/2012 at 04:19, DemonWA said:

I dont believe the NRL western Reds (Red kangaroo) franchse had anything to do with the Queensland Red's (Koala) union side?

Ok, I am lost here people.

I just find it odd that Perth has a Super XV club when it would be more feasible to call the Reds the Brisbane Reds, the Waratahs the Sydney Waratahs and have another team in one of those states.

It's a tangential argument, sorry.