There is no argument Collingwood get a massive advantage by doing their pre-season training in Arizona ... fantastic base fitness level & much easier to reach your peak training levels quicker, then you manage the "load" thru out the season. Talk is other clubs will start to do it soon.

Estimated cost for your list is approximately $500,000

How do we find the money to do it?

How do we get our players on more of a level playing field?

Would you pay a levy on your membership? Would you buy tickets in a raffle specifically for this purpose?

Edited August 4, 201114 yr by hangon007

There is no argument Collingwood get a massive advantage by doing their pre-season training in Arizona ... fantastic base fitness level & much easier to reach your peak training levels quicker, then you manage the "load" thru out the season. Talk is other clubs will start to do it soon.

Estimated cost for your list is approximately $500,000

How do we find the money to do it?

How do we get our players on more of a level playing field?

Would you pay a levy on your membership? Would you buy tickets in a raffle specifically for this purpose?

They also have a purpose built room here as well. How much would it cost to build that. Geelong were going to send some players but couldnt afford it. I would definitely put money into it but $500,000 every year would be a stretch for a Club where we are at the moment. I know Hang on you will say that if we are not prepared to put in we will not match the Clubs like Collingwood but there are practicalities as well. I am now waiting for your scathing attack.

Or just add $500,000 into the coach poach kitty.

They also have a purpose built room here as well. How much would it cost to build that. Geelong were going to send some players but couldnt afford it. I would definitely put money into it but $500,000 every year would be a stretch for a Club where we are at the moment. I know Hang on you will say that if we are not prepared to put in we will not match the Clubs like Collingwood but there are practicalities as well. I am now waiting for your scathing attack.

No scathing attack needed ... "practicalities as well" that dont give our team a level playing field.

Seems like we are pre-pared to accept double standards in some areas ... but not in others.

Or just add $500,000 into the coach poach kitty.

If we used the $500,000 to poach Mick Malthouse he would demand we did it .... so with him it would cost us a cool $1,000,000

Geez we would have to double the levy .... How would that go down with our supporters?????

There is no argument Collingwood get a massive advantage

There is every argument. The advantage is not "massive".

Where have Geelong done their pre-season training for the last few years?

Should apply to the AFL for an exemption from WADA rules to allow synthetic EPO administration to all our players, which is all that "Arizona" is anyway. No, I'm not saying they use EPO in Arizona. I'm saying the effect of Arizona = EPO. As a broad rule, something like a Haematocrit > 50% and a Haemoglobin > 170, unless proven to be a player's long-term baseline levels, should require a player sit out until they approach normal levels (for safety as well as fairness).

Didn't North Melbourne do some pre-season training at altitude in New Zealand this year?

What's the difference between altitude training in Arizona and NZ? (other than the cost)!

There's no difference, if you're training at the same altitude (ie: atmospheric pressure). I suppose the associated facilities at Arizona might be better? Again, it's all pretty much just legal EPO doping.

Yes the MFC should do it. Without question.

There is every argument. The advantage is not "massive".

Where have Geelong done their pre-season training for the last few years?

Ahhh ... an Arizona Fitness sceptic ... all the "science" points one way its a massive advantage

Collingwood have that massive advantage

PS Your not a climate change sceptic by the way ... B) (only joking)

Edited August 5, 201114 yr by hangon007

Didn't North Melbourne do some pre-season training at altitude in New Zealand this year?

What's the difference between altitude training in Arizona and NZ? (other than the cost)!

Yeah Arizona is better you "piggy back" off all the experts that have been doing this sort of stuff in NFL football & other sports for years & years. its the best place to get the intensity right in a short period of time.

The facilities and expertise on hand are second to none.

Edited August 5, 201114 yr by hangon007

Yes the MFC should do it. Without question.

How are we going to pay for it? Its expensive!!!!

The example I will use is from the NFL which some of you may not be comparable with however there is a team called the Dallas Mavericks which are the Collingwood of the league. Their owner is Jerry Jones who is the Eddie McGuire and they have 3 times the amount of money any team does with the biggest stadium and best facilities.

They do the most in free-agency but last year they finished 6-10 and way out of the playoffs. These advantages are only bought up when a team is on the top.

Melbourne don't need to go to Arizona or any crap like that we need the best coach, skillful players and those who WANTto win a premiership.

With this combination we'll win a premiership and the club can use the 500,000 to throw us supporters the biggest party ever held.

Why don't the guys just run around the Tan breathing out of a straw?

Didn't North Melbourne do some pre-season training at altitude in New Zealand this year?

What's the difference between altitude training in Arizona and NZ? (other than the cost)!

For altitude to have any decent effect you need to be above 2500-3000m. There are very few accessible areas of NZ that are that high, only the tops of icy, dangerous peaks.

Didn't North Melbourne do some pre-season training at altitude in New Zealand this year?

What's the difference between altitude training in Arizona and NZ? (other than the cost)!

Yeah it can be done in NZ. I remember reading somewhere that one of the facilities they use in Arizona (maybe some kind of compression chamber or something similar) is one of only 3 in the world. One of the others being in NZ. Surely get the cost down a hell of a lot if we could get even similar benefits from a NZ altitude trip.

For altitude to have any decent effect you need to be above 2500-3000m. There are very few accessible areas of NZ that are that high, only the tops of icy, dangerous peaks.

Perhaps we could go to China, more specifically Tibet or Yunan. Would be a lot cheaper and the players could eat Yak.

How about Mt. Dandenong? Far cheaper option than Arizona.

The example I will use is from the NFL which some of you may not be comparable with however there is a team called the Dallas Mavericks which are the Collingwood of the league. Their owner is Jerry Jones who is the Eddie McGuire and they have 3 times the amount of money any team does with the biggest stadium and best facilities.

They do the most in free-agency but last year they finished 6-10 and way out of the playoffs. These advantages are only bought up when a team is on the top.

D'oh. Think you mean the Dallas Cowboys! The Mavs are also owned by a crazy rich tycoon, Mark Cuban, but they relied on a 30+ German to carry them successfully to the NBA title this year.

The Cowboys also opened up a heap of cap space this free agency period and missed on all their targets so money isnt everything..

The arguments that Geelong and Hawthorn did not do altitude training are still valid. What happens if the Pies dont win the flag this year? Do everyone head to the sand dunes of Ocean Grove just because thats how Geelong won a flag?

It's going to be interesting to see where the other clubs go with this if Collingwood continue to show an advantage.

But they also have their list management, coaching, development, facilities etc etc humming along too, and the altitude training is ready the cherry on top of the ice cream!

The football arms race is on in earnest, and Carlton are now heading to Qatar for their altitude training:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-swap-guesthouse-in-sorrento-for-bright-lights-of-qatar-20110726-1hylg.html

It evidence continues to show clear benefits, all clubs will be scrambling to do similar things provided they can afford it.

It evidence continues to show clear benefits, all clubs will be scrambling to do similar things provided they can afford it.

There is the "sting" ... How do we make it happen? How can we afford it?

I saw a news bulletin on Channel 7 a few weeks ago that said they have a new fitness centre in the Western Suburbs - can't remember whether it was at the Whitten Oval or another elite training centre. In it, it was asserted that the "Arizona experience" can be replicated by having players train inside an oxygen and heat controlled chamber on exercise bikes, treadmills etc.

This would surely be a far cheaper option and whether all clubs could be allocated sessions there, no doubt at some cost, would help again to level the playing field.

Collingwood do the Arizona thing to gain an advantage. If everyone was doing something similar, then this advantage would be negated and I suppose the main benefit would be player recovery from which all clubs and the competition as a whole could reap the rewards.

And whether something like this could be incorporated at AAMI Park to benefit all the codes that train there and to share the cost, maybe worth exploring also.

How about Mt. Dandenong? Far cheaper option than Arizona.

hahahahah ... but is cheaper better? You are effectively not giving our team a chance to play at its best.

The roller-coaster will continue. B) The same roller-coaster that sends this site into melt-down on a near fortnightly basis. B)

Ahhh ... an Arizona Fitness sceptic ... all the "science" points one way its a massive advantage

Collingwood have that massive advantage

I bet you haven't even read the science. There are innumerable papers on altitude training, the most optimistic of which point to a probable physiological advantage of about 2-5%, lasting a maximum of 2 months (the life of a red blood cell). So the effect, while certainly there, is not "massive".

Some effects can even be negative ... the danger of overtraining, higher dehydration leading to weight loss, negative effects on the immune system, loss of muscle mass because of the increase in metabolic rate, higher blood viscosity making it harder for the heart to pump.

Some recent papers even suggest "living high, training low" has greater benefits than "living low, training high". Perhaps Collingwood should live in Arizona and come back to sea-level for training.