On the Couch

[jnrmac 20,097]

Robert Walls is such a [censored]. Yeah we will just ignore the fact that we lose more matches than we win and we lose by an average of 66 points.

Walls was on the committee that picked Bailey so he will defend it to the death.

[jnrmac 20,097]

I know I will be writing an open letter to the entire club asking for an explanation & demanding a more professional model to run the FD. I suggest more members do the same or express their thoughts to the club in your own way.

Good on you Bonkers. That'll fix everything then.

Now a cuppa?

[Bonkers 994]

Good on you Bonkers. That'll fix everything then.

Now a cuppa?

Get a grip. I'm under no illusion that I'm going to re invent the wheel but the buck stops at us the members. The club exists because of us no one else. The only way things will ever change is if enough people want it to.

[dee-luded 2,959]

These aren't just growing pains. There are deep issues with the board, admin & FD. The club may have cleared the debt but IMO have no idea how to get this club to a premiership. Why was the Andrews report ignored? Why has Schwab been allowed to do as he pleases? What exactly is CC's role? The players don't even want to be on the park. It doesn't get much worse than this. I think good will come of it, the club can not ignore these issues. Jim asked the members to keep the board & admin accountable. Questions have got to be asked why things were ever able to get this bad.

Thats what I said there Growing Pains, and the motivation of the club is to get on with things, so these, whatever they are, will get seen to from within. And those with the power to do so will iron them out in due course.

Come the end of September I'd hope that these things will be identified by the powers, and sorted, unless it's the board divided. Then we'll need an election.

[Little Goffy 14,578]

I think I'm beginning to piece together the underlying troubles.

Cameron Schwab is the prime architect of the 'Red & Blueprint'.

The critical points of this were -

*To kill the debt (tick)

*To reestablish the club business operations on an efficient and 'positive' footing (Seems like tick)

*To extremely aggressively pursue a youth-led rebirth of the club, removing older players with absolute ruthlessness in order to maximise the cohort of talent coming through together.

Item 3 has just exploded.

If I were guessing, I'd say that the 'Red & Blueprint' was the driver behind McDonald & Bruce's exits. Possible a 'too far scenario after already ditching Wheatley, Whelan and Robertson and any number of other more or less 'natural' retirements.

In short, the veteran and mid-age players became acutely aware that they had limited control over their future, and there was a great deal of tension about the continuing imposition of the "Red & Blueprint" on the footy department.

Obviously this points to the Schwab 'interference'. Perhaps Connolly was also a player in that agenda.

Perhaps Bailey had set out to distance himself from that agenda (the public comments on 'regretting' the McDonald sacking and how it was handled)

Hmm... you might also be able to point to the extent to which the Demons weren't even paying the official minimum 92.5% of the salary cap - heavily frontloading contracts just to reach that level. Once again, current senior players would have been pushed out as too expensive, if the entire mind of the management was set on paying contracts in 2014-17.

There's no denying that the 'senior' players in the team have been the key 'unexpected' weakness this year. Perhaps we just didn't have enough to cover for when the few we had lost form. Perhaps their sense of agency over their own future was eroded. Which is as good as saying, they were despondent. And played despondent football.

I'm thinking out loud in the hope that someone else will be able to pick out the more valid points and add something to this train of thought.

Hmm... Has Bailey been sacked for failing to deliver on Schwab/Connolly's plan?

[Akum 2,660]

I think I'm beginning to piece together the underlying troubles.

...

Would this imply that it's only some of the older players who have the beef with Schwab and the "Red & Blueprint" and the preference for talented youth over experience?

And it was those older players who wanted to show their value to the team by not performing on Sat? It was clearly the senior players (Riv being perhaps the exception) who were the worst-performed, as was pointed out in the press (i.e. Selwood getting more possessions than half a dozen senior players combined).

And that DB was sympathetic to this stand by those older players?

And the Board threw it back at them by recommitting to their stand on "talented youth over experience"?

Or is this pushing it too far? On one hand seems far-fetched; on the other hand, it does explain the apparent Board backflip.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think I'm beginning to piece together the underlying troubles.

Cameron Schwab is the prime architect of the 'Red & Blueprint'.

The critical points of this were -

*To kill the debt (tick)

*To reestablish the club business operations on an efficient and 'positive' footing (Seems like tick)

*To extremely aggressively pursue a youth-led rebirth of the club, removing older players with absolute ruthlessness in order to maximise the cohort of talent coming through together.

Item 3 has just exploded.

If I were guessing, I'd say that the 'Red & Blueprint' was the driver behind McDonald & Bruce's exits. Possible a 'too far scenario after already ditching Wheatley, Whelan and Robertson and any number of other more or less 'natural' retirements.

In short, the veteran and mid-age players became acutely aware that they had limited control over their future, and there was a great deal of tension about the continuing imposition of the "Red & Blueprint" on the footy department.

Obviously this points to the Schwab 'interference'. Perhaps Connolly was also a player in that agenda.

Perhaps Bailey had set out to distance himself from that agenda (the public comments on 'regretting' the McDonald sacking and how it was handled)

Hmm... you might also be able to point to the extent to which the Demons weren't even paying the official minimum 92.5% of the salary cap - heavily frontloading contracts just to reach that level. Once again, current senior players would have been pushed out as too expensive, if the entire mind of the management was set on paying contracts in 2014-17.

There's no denying that the 'senior' players in the team have been the key 'unexpected' weakness this year. Perhaps we just didn't have enough to cover for when the few we had lost form. Perhaps their sense of agency over their own future was eroded. Which is as good as saying, they were despondent. And played despondent football.

I'm thinking out loud in the hope that someone else will be able to pick out the more valid points and add something to this train of thought.

Hmm... Has Bailey been sacked for failing to deliver on Schwab/Connolly's plan?

All very believable, But, that doesn't mean it won't work now,,, as we've already well down that trodden path.

Greeny & Davey have been the biggest missing links this year and Aaron did seem to be missing for way too long. Jamar as well, was out for long period & I wondered if they were being kept on hold, whilst we played more kids into our system.

Warnock & to a lesser extent, Mcdonald have also been used as half way players, so there maybe something in what you've said. Add to the disenchantment, Bater, Dunn, Maric, Petterd early, Bartram, Wonnaemirri, Blease, & there is a lot of sour grapes happening.

When this stuff takes hold, it spreads & the Team Morale is shattered.

Did I hear that someone was told recently that they wouldn't be kept on for next season, about 2 weeks back?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

All very believable, But, that doesn't mean it won't work now,,, as we've already well down that trodden path.

Greeny & Davey have been the biggest missing links this year and Aaron did seem to be missing for way too long. Jamar as well, was out for long period & I wondered if they were being kept on hold, whilst we played more kids into our system.

Warnock & to a lesser extent, Mcdonald have also been used as half way players, so there maybe something in what you've said. Add to the disenchantment, Bater, Dunn, Maric, Petterd early, Bartram, Wonnaemirri, Blease, & there is a lot of sour grapes happening.

When this stuff takes hold, it spreads & the Team Morale is shattered.

Did I hear that someone was told recently that they wouldn't be kept on for next season, about 2 weeks back?

All of this depends on whether you are playing kids for kids sake, or if you are not playing senor players because, they simply aren't good enough, they're injured or they have lost form. If the club is trying to save on player payments by not playing senior players then that is a disgrace.

There was something similar alluded to on Demonology all be it in an abstract way, something to do with incentive payments. You can't dud the players and expect them to be loyal to you and if it is the case and Tom Scully wants to leave because of it then I don't blame him, if CS is playing games with player payments I can understand the players disliking him. If it is the case are the board aware of it and if so are they complicit or are they acting to stop it?

Does it occur at other clubs?

[Robbie57 2,020]

I think I'm beginning to piece together the underlying troubles.

In short, the veteran and mid-age players became acutely aware that they had limited control over their future, and there was a great deal of tension about the continuing imposition of the "Red & Blueprint" on the footy department.

Obviously this points to the Schwab 'interference'. Perhaps Connolly was also a player in that agenda.

Perhaps Bailey had set out to distance himself from that agenda (the public comments on 'regretting' the McDonald sacking and how it was handled)

There's no denying that the 'senior' players in the team have been the key 'unexpected' weakness this year. Perhaps we just didn't have enough to cover for when the few we had lost form. Perhaps their sense of agency over their own future was eroded. Which is as good as saying, they were despondent. And played despondent football.

Fortunately I was overseas and came home to this debacle.

I didnt see they game but the extracts I have seen show that our on field team was totally missing.

I think the on the couch team have it right our leaders have got involved in some off field fight and ended up not being ready to play saturday.

I think this has been the case for most of the year for them. Lets be frank and brutal some of senior players this year have not put it all on the park.

If that is because of some slight to older players or gripe with administration then its not acceptable. I know they will respond its not been the case but the reality is if in the recess of your brain you are not happy at work you will not perform at the top level which is the same thing.

Whatever the cause everyone at the club should be ashamed that their collective failure to sort it all out meant Jimmy had to face the press yesterday.

So here is a message to our administration, our FD and every player here is a man dealt a crappy hand and rather than complaining about it he plays it to the best of his ability. Think about it why cant you take the lead and do the same?

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Sacking one in the current circumstances doesn't look good from outside the club.

Given the result on Saturday, the club had to act. Sacking the CEO is an outcome that does not fit the antecedent. The club and coach is already under pressure from the media and the membership, and the Board are representative of that membership. Sacking the coach given the history and the current circumstance, while extreme and somewhat reactionary, is not an unreasonable outcome.

Sacking the two of them looks like the club is imploding completely and irrecoverably; that those governing it have lost complete control. An extension to Schwab looks (to me) like an extension for now until he and the club can come to an amicable parting; away from the current glare.

Speculation, but reasonable.

This. Spot on I reckon. The MFC were planning on sacking Schwab but couldn't because they had to sack Bailey and they couldn't sack both of them. Schwab's days are numbered.

Don't let this get lost in all this: Bailey can't coach on game day to save himself.

[GM11 776]

After watching Garry Lyon last night, I'm prepared to take him at face value.

If he steps into the Football Director role, I hope he has the nads to start kicking a few heads.

It has to be obvious now that there are a few ego driven individuals within the club who have their eye off the ball.

I keep thinking that if this was Collingwood, Eddie would be smacking heads.

Now I don't expect Jim to be doing this, it just isn't his style.

This is why we must recruit a former player to the board as Football Director.

Someone who is capable of keeping people focused on their roles without fear or favour.

But who?

Garry Lyon?

David Neitz?

Greg Healy?

Don't know, but someone must take this burden from Jim.

And I thought we had got beyond all this crap!

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

After watching Garry Lyon last night, I'm prepared to take him at face value.

If he steps into the Football Director role, I hope he has the nads to start kicking a few heads.

It has to be obvious now that there are a few ego driven individuals within the club who have their eye off the ball.

I keep thinking that if this was Collingwood, Eddie would be smacking heads.

Now I don't expect Jim to be doing this, it just isn't his style.

This is why we must recruit a former player to the board as Football Director.

Someone who is capable of keeping people focused on their roles without fear or favour.

But who?

Garry Lyon?

David Neitz?

Greg Healy?

Don't know, but someone must take this burden from Jim.

And I thought we had got beyond all this crap!

So in essence what you are saying is that we have a bunch of ex-player mates who need to be pulled into line "without fear or favour" and your solution is to add another ex-player mate?

[GM11 776]

So in essence what you are saying is that we have a bunch of ex-player mates who need to be pulled into line "without fear or favour" and your solution is to add another ex-player mate?

My point is that the Jim should not be the football director for obvious reasons.

It would appear that Jim has taken on this role because things were not functioning without one.

That would imply that, since Leoncelli left, there is no one on the board currently who can do it.

[e25 5]

I'm not convinced there is a serious issue with the playing group, in terms of not seeing eye to eye with the administration.

I can see how Junior would have been popular and they didn't like seeing him go.

I can see that the older, underperforming players are concerned about their place on the list - but this is only a fraction of the list.

I doubt the kids are concerned that older players who are proving they aren't up to it, won't be given lengthy contracts they don't deserve.

If blokes like Brad Green worried about doing the best thing for the club, first and foremost, then they'd indirectly be securing their place for the immediate future.

Self-preservation issues are hurting the club right now.

[Adam The God 30,266]

I can see that the older, underperforming players are concerned about their place on the list - but this is only a fraction of the list.

I doubt the kids are concerned that older players who are proving they aren't up to it, won't be given lengthy contracts they don't deserve.

This seems to match what I've been hearing coming out of the club. The things I've heard from one or two of the younger players is that the supposed tensions between the playing group and the FD are a load of [censored]. It certainly seems conceivable that Green, Rivers and Jones see their time as limited on the list, and thus have taken issue with the "premiership model" devised by Schwab and co.

Like so many, however we are only speculating, but I'm not convinced there is a groundswell of angst towards the FD (excluding a few senior players that are worried about their positions on the list going forward).

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

My point is that the Jim should not be the football director for obvious reasons.

It would appear that Jim has taken on this role because things were not functioning without one.

That would imply that, since Leoncelli left, there is no one on the board currently who can do it.

And my point is that you need to take the rose tinted glasses off when it come to ex-players and get over the whole MFC messiah schtick.

We can agree on one thing through, Jim sure as hell isn't up to the job either.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Hazyshadeofgrinter

[Mono 455]

..........

Hmm... you might also be able to point to the extent to which the Demons weren't even paying the official minimum 92.5% of the salary cap - heavily frontloading contracts just to reach that level. Once again, current senior players would have been pushed out as too expensive, if the entire mind of the management was set on paying contracts in 2014-17.

...........

I hadn't really thyought about it, but perhaps the resentment to Schwab's comments about being able to match GWS contract offer to Scully, was not that per se, but more towards the comment that the club was paying below the 92.5% minumum and would need to front end contracts. If a senior player was thinking he was worth more than he was getting, that would be a real slap in the face.

Maybe this is a hangover from the grossly excessive contract Bruce was paid; perhaps they all thought their time would come.

You would have thought Saturday's effort would have dropped their market value a fair bit.

No way is Sylvia a $550k player at Melbourne. He MAYBE is at another club (eg Sydney, but you have to wonder: Roos has commented on TV that Sylvia is a player who runs hard one way.

And Davey getting $400k? is about as rediculous as Lake's $600k? at the dogs.

.........

Hmm... Has Bailey been sacked for failing to deliver on Schwab/Connolly's plan?

Bailey was sacked because he was unable to field a "competitive" team that played with some hardness after 4 yrs. Pure and simple.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

I'm overseas, trying to work out what has happened since I left on Saturday. Why was Schwab going to get the sack?

According to some of the media (Caroline Wilson for instance), Schwab was perceived by players (and maybe coach) of meddling and micro-managing the football side of the club. What the truth is, I don't think any of us really know. Suffice to say, from the press conference yesterday, it seemed clear that Bailey was at odds with Schwab & Connolly. That coupled with the almost record-breaking loss to a rampant Geelong, and questions about whether Bailey was the coach to take MFC to the next level, would have sealed DB's fate.

Safe travels!

[angrydee 842]

It was apparently the SENIOR players who were complaining about things. Well judging by their actions on the field this year - they're part of the rot.

[e25 5]

It was apparently the SENIOR players who were complaining about things. Well judging by their actions on the field this year - they're part of the rot.

That's been apparent for a long time now...

(before the complaining)