How far have we come this year?

[joehann 0]

Are we just treading water this year, or are we going somewhere.

I'm not someone to just bag out for the sake of it, but when i look at what we have done this year...

Last year we thrashed Sydney at the G, this year we drew.

Last year we beat Adelaide at the G, this year we also beat Adelaide.

Last year we beat Brisbane, this year we also beat Brisbane.

Found it tough to win away from the G over the last 10 years, still find it tough...

Inconsistency...etc.

I appreciate injuries but we need progress on the field.

Off the field the club hasn't been better for 50 odd years. No debt, some pride and some figures in the media spruiking the message, attracting supporters.

I hope the club is looking at severing its ties with Casey and entering its own team in the VFL. (no offense Casey, the club just needs to have more control over how the players play as it is evident on field that there is some confusion. We need players who come up to know their role just like the top teams seem to have.)

I think we are going to see a few more clubs doing this and I hope Melbourne is on the forefront on that change.

Does anyone else have comment on our progress so far?

Somehow I don't think its just me.

Joehann.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Last year we beat Adelaide at the G, this year we also beat Adelaide.

No, we thrashed them this year. We monstored them by 96 and it should have been about 120! and we were a man down with several others out injured! credit where it's due please!

I still think we'll ultimately get to 10-11 wins after originally thinking 12-13

[Deeflated 0]

I've said this a number of times on these forums but the Bailey fanatics keep howling me down.

Forget about our young list or our poor with injuries of late. The big issue we have this year is forward pressure/zones.

We are ranked 2nd last in the league (only above Gold Coast) in forward pressure. Until this is fixed don't expect to be pushing up the ladder.

How did the pies win a flag last year?

Why have the bombers & eagles surged up the ladder?

Why are we struggling this year (even before the injuries)?

Forward pressure.

[rhaz 342]

The big things we did last year were *almost* rolling Collingwood (twice, the loss was the umpires fault), the Doggies (again umpires, the pink shirt debacle) and Freo in Freo. Unfortunately, we also lost to West Coast at home when they were tanking...

I would wait for the next 3 weeks to pass to ask this question that this thread is posing. The only decent sides we have played so far this year are Hawthorn (and they weren't playing great at the time) and West Coast, but that was more our fault for the loss than them being good. After playing Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood (two friday night games!! and QUEENS BIRTHDAY!) we will know a LOT more about our side.

Also, injuries are no excuse, but i seriously think the games against NM and particularly StKilda could've been won if we had Trengove/Scully/Jamar/Grimes/Garland. There would be very different thought about the club if those wins had occured.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,778]

Until we beat Vic clubs and win at Etihad and Subi we've gone nowhere as a club.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

The big things we did last year were *almost* rolling Collingwood (twice, the loss was the umpires fault), the Doggies (again umpires, the pink shirt debacle) and Freo in Freo. Unfortunately, we also lost to West Coast at home when they were tanking...

I would wait for the next 3 weeks to pass to ask this question that this thread is posing. The only decent sides we have played so far this year are Hawthorn (and they weren't playing great at the time) and West Coast, but that was more our fault for the loss than them being good. After playing Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood (two friday night games!! and QUEENS BIRTHDAY!) we will know a LOT more about our side.

Also, injuries are no excuse, but i seriously think the games against NM and particularly StKilda could've been won if we had Trengove/Scully/Jamar/Grimes/Garland. There would be very different thought about the club if those wins had occured.

we obviously could easuily have won last week, it was mostly bad luck and a few critical errors from some kids. how anyone could debate this is beyond me. I was honestly shocked to find that on Sunday a huge amount of people were just slagging the side and the club off. I came away from the ground thinking we should have won and that it was a gutsy 4-quarter effort from un undermanned side. We are still on a 44% win record vs last year's 39% and there are clear improvements n both overall team play and certain individuals efforts, if only in patches. We all know that there are several cogs that many players in the side can lift so is it so hard to imagine they will right the ship and win many more before the year is out? What happened last year in round 1, we were embarassed by the Hawks again, what happened the next week, we matched the premiers. FCS a couple of weeks ago we responded to a loss with a 96 point belting.

we will probably get done like a dinner for the next three but how can we honestly be upset with that, coming off 8.5 wins last year, huuuuuge injury list, playing top sides. We shouldn't be expecting to win them. Of course if they play awful footy or drop their heads for patches that will deserve criticism. But as long as they have a crack like they did last week i won't blame them

lately ive read a lot of 'injuries are no excuse'... of course they are! we have 12 unvailable for this week, most of them solid players or at least in the mix for the 22, we will be fielding players that are past 30th best on the list

i know this is going to cop 'stop making excuses winning is the only thing that matters' ... so maybe just save it.. if thats all you got i'm not interested

Edited May 25, 2011 by Curry & Beer

[Rogue 585]

we obviously could easuily have won last week, it was mostly bad luck and a few critical errors from some kids. how anyone could debate this is beyond me. I was honestly shocked to find that on Sunday a huge amount of people were just slagging the side and the club off. I came away from the ground thinking we should have won

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

In previous years, if we had 1/3 of our best side out and a game-ending injury to someone in the first quarter of a game there is no way we would even have been in the match.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

I always thought we'd tread water this year as we lost some harder bodies and relied more on the kids to bear the brunt of things. The lack of heart displayed sometimes this year is a worry as it comes from those we need to nurse the babies along. If we can work that out then I'll be pleased with where I think we are at.

[Guest 36DD]

I've said this a number of times on these forums but the Bailey fanatics keep howling me down.

Forget about our young list or our poor with injuries of late. The big issue we have this year is forward pressure/zones.

We are ranked 2nd last in the league (only above Gold Coast) in forward pressure. Until this is fixed don't expect to be pushing up the ladder.

How did the pies win a flag last year?

Why have the bombers & eagles surged up the ladder?

Why are we struggling this year (even before the injuries)?

Forward pressure.

Dont know if i would call myself a Bailey fanatic however, I am happy with him thus far, but admittedly would like a few more wins on the board.

Doesn't matter who the coach is players have to "buy into" providing forward pressure. The Melbourne forwards have done this for 4 quarters once this season, you guessed it, against Adelaide. An effective foreward press requires effort and a willingness to run your guts out, most of our forwards don't do this and make token efforts. Bates 3 tackles in quick succession against Adelaide with about 5 mins to go should be the norm. The players are instructed to press they are just unwilling to do it. Maric and Petterd got dropped earlier this year as they needed to work on the defensive sides of their game. Jurrah has to lift his workrate in this area, Wonna is not fit enough to do so.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,383]

Are we just treading water this year, or are we going somewhere.

I'm not someone to just bag out for the sake of it, but when i look at what we have done this year...

Last year we thrashed Sydney at the G, this year we drew.

Last year we beat Adelaide at the G, this year we also beat Adelaide.

Last year we beat Brisbane, this year we also beat Brisbane.

Found it tough to win away from the G over the last 10 years, still find it tough...

Inconsistency...etc.

I appreciate injuries but we need progress on the field.

Off the field the club hasn't been better for 50 odd years. No debt, some pride and some figures in the media spruiking the message, attracting supporters.

I hope the club is looking at severing its ties with Casey and entering its own team in the VFL. (no offense Casey, the club just needs to have more control over how the players play as it is evident on field that there is some confusion. We need players who come up to know their role just like the top teams seem to have.)

I think we are going to see a few more clubs doing this and I hope Melbourne is on the forefront on that change.

Does anyone else have comment on our progress so far?

Somehow I don't think its just me.

Joehann.

Sad to say, but at present, we are taking one step forwards and two backwards. I think we will be lucky to win as many games as we did last year. Even though we play play the easy beats ( Gold Coast) twice. Lost too much experience too quickly. McDonald and Bruce = 500 games.

[Guest Thomo]

we obviously could easuily have won last week,

Obviously we couldn't.

Dont know if i would call myself a Bailey fanatic however, I am happy with him thus far, but admittedly would like a few more wins on the board.

Doesn't matter who the coach is players have to "buy into" providing forward pressure. The Melbourne forwards have done this for 4 quarters once this season, you guessed it, against Adelaide. An effective foreward press requires effort and a willingness to run your guts out, most of our forwards don't do this and make token efforts. Bates 3 tackles in quick succession against Adelaide with about 5 mins to go should be the norm. The players are instructed to press they are just unwilling to do it. Maric and Petterd got dropped earlier this year as they needed to work on the defensive sides of their game. Jurrah has to lift his workrate in this area, Wonna is not fit enough to do so.

Isn't it a big part of the coaches job to get the players playing well? I'd say your post highlights why Bailey is not the man for the job.

[Nasher 33,607]

I've said this a number of times on these forums but the Bailey fanatics keep howling me down.

I actually laughed out loud when I read this line. Hands up here who considers themselves a "Bailey fanatic"?

[Guest Thomo]

I actually laughed out loud when I read this line. Hands up here who considers themselves a "Bailey fanatic"?

I'm pretty sure Dean Baileys Mun posts on here under the name 'Artie Bucco'

[Striker475 696]

This season, right now:

Game........Preseason....Result

Syd @ G - win?.........Draw

Haw @ G - loss.........Loss

Bri @ G - WIN..........Win

GCS @ Gabba - WIN........Win

WCE @ Subi - loss........loss

ADE @ G - WIN..........Win

NTH @ Eti - win?.........loss

StK @ Eti - loss.........loss

So the only game right now that I would call out of character would be the North game. So slightly behind - but beating Freo or winning any of the next 3 will put us on track.

[rpfc 28,267]

I'm pretty sure Dean Baileys Mun posts on here under the name 'Artie Bucco'

Are there nuances?

Or if you have the view that it is too early to say whether he should continue, are you a Bailey Fanatic?

I find that there is beauty in grey...

[Nasher 33,607]

I find that there is beauty in grey...

What's this grey business? You either love Bailey or you hate him. There is no in between, nor is there any room for doubt one way or the other, and deferring the decision until more facts present is not an option.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

What's this grey business? You either love Bailey or you hate him. There is no in between, nor is there any room for doubt one way or the other, and deferring the decision until more facts present is not an option.

Deferring your decision is conceding that you're off to GWS for the money.

Sh*t, wrong thread

[Juicebox 628]

This season, right now:

Game........Preseason....Result

Syd @ G - win?.........Draw

Haw @ G - loss.........Loss

Bri @ G - WIN..........Win

GCS @ Gabba - WIN........Win

WCE @ Subi - loss........loss

ADE @ G - WIN..........Win

NTH @ Eti - win?.........loss

StK @ Eti - loss.........loss

So the only game right now that I would call out of character would be the North game. So slightly behind - but beating Freo or winning any of the next 3 will put us on track.

As far as wins and losses go, we are probably living up to expectations.

But the concern is how pathetic we have been at times. I never expected performances like the 3rd quarter against Hawthorn or the 1st against West Coast.

[Striker475 696]

As far as wins and losses go, we are probably living up to expectations.

But the concern is how pathetic we have been at times. I never expected performances like the 3rd quarter against Hawthorn or the 1st against West Coast.

Yeah, I know, those kind of losses have been crap. But ultimately, if we make finals even with those losses are the board going to care?

The ultimate judgement is the W/L column.

[Guest Thomo]

Are there nuances?

Or if you have the view that it is too early to say whether he should continue, are you a Bailey Fanatic?

I find that there is beauty in grey...

Is there ever grey from the saftey of the keyboard?

[Guest 36DD]

Obviously we couldn't.

Isn't it a big part of the coaches job to get the players playing well? I'd say your post highlights why Bailey is not the man for the job.

I'd say your post highlights a lack of understanding of a players psyche, initiating a press is hard work physically, only once were our players prepared to do so, after receiving a bake in the media following the WCE loss.

You should thank Bailey et al for attempting to weed out the mentally weak approach we have been renowned for post Northy, there is still a ways to go. Shame supporters cant see it for what it is. We will continue to be aligned with St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs. Teams that get close but do not have that hardened edge to get them across the line when the heat is on.

Buck stops with the players, or maybe they are listening to the supporters, lets allow all the heat to fall on the coach while we coast, get another coach in, do the same again, and so the cycle continues....

[Rogue 585]

Deferring your decision is conceding that you're off to GWS for the money.

Nice

[Guest Thomo]

I'd say your post highlights a lack of understanding of a players psyche, initiating a press is hard work physically, only once were our players prepared to do so, after receiving a bake in the media following the WCE loss.

You should thank Bailey et al for attempting to weed out the mentally weak approach we have been renowned for post Northy, there is still a ways to go. Shame supporters cant see it for what it is. We will continue to be aligned with St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs. Teams that get close but do not have that hardened edge to get them across the line when the heat is on.

Buck stops with the players, or maybe they are listening to the supporters, lets allow all the heat to fall on the coach while we coast, get another coach in, do the same again, and so the cycle continues....

So the coach has no responsibilty for the way the team plays, however but the media can get them to do their job? Makes sense.

[rpfc 28,267]

I'd say your post highlights a lack of understanding of a players psyche, initiating a press is hard work physically, only once were our players prepared to do so, after receiving a bake in the media following the WCE loss.

You should thank Bailey et al for attempting to weed out the mentally weak approach we have been renowned for post Northy, there is still a ways to go. Shame supporters cant see it for what it is. We will continue to be aligned with St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs. Teams that get close but do not have that hardened edge to get them across the line when the heat is on.

Buck stops with the players, or maybe they are listening to the supporters, lets allow all the heat to fall on the coach while we coast, get another coach in, do the same again, and so the cycle continues....

I agree that Northey had a harder edge than subsequesnt coaches, but he was quite draining apparently with his prematch addresses of "they think your not good enough, nobody thinks your good enough."

It was the "us v them" mentality that produced some consistency, but as you get more relevant the message loses its punch.

[Rogue 585]

As far as wins and losses go, we are probably living up to expectations.

But the concern is how pathetic we have been at times.

I agree.

However, I think that, despite our horror injury run (both within games and in terms of players available for selection), we've recently seen an improvement.

It's a moot point now, but I'd wager we'd be going alright by now if we had most of our best 22 out there.