MFC do the ends justify the means

[The Chazz 4,077]

This thread is getting beyond a joke.

How many junior sporting teams cry out for sponsorship, and how many of them are happy to accept McDonalds as a major sponsor? Wouldn't that be advertising unhealthy eating - leading to more obesity within our children?

A local junior sporting team are sponsored by a local RSL Club, but I can assure you, the $10k+ that they receive each year is a valuable contribution.

I'm not denying that gambling, like alcohol and drugs, can have fatal outcomes for some people, and I strongly support the groups and resources that are available for this kind of thing.

How many of you turned up to the MFC Race Day at Cranbourne (I think) earlier this year? I'm sure there will be some that wont put their hand up, but I bet (no pun intended) that you couldn't give a rats where the day was held. And I wouldn't be surprised if your kids loved watching the horsey's!

I am a punter (horses, casino's, etc), and if I know that the next bet I place is going to have some $ go toward the MFC, I'll be happy to open an account. It is my interest and my form of entertainment, so why should I be treated like a freak just because of that? I do feel sad when I see people that are addicted, but that's life. Making gambling illegal or whatever will only create a different culture that people will become obsessed to.

If we are going the moral thing, why not shut down Facebook, etc. How many marraiges or lives been destroyed because of Facebook?

If any gambling agency is happy to put money in to the MFC, they have my full support. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones that can have a punt without losing my house, etc.

[daisycutter 29,743]

Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones that can have a punt without losing my house, etc.

Yet.

just kidding, but it did seem to be a classic gamblers statement. Probably best left unsaid.

BTW I'm with you on Facebook. Could we include Twitter too?

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

How many of you turned up to the MFC Race Day at Cranbourne (I think) earlier this year? I'm sure there will be some that wont put their hand up, but I bet (no pun intended) that you couldn't give a rats where the day was held. And I wouldn't be surprised if your kids loved watching the horsey's!

I am a punter (horses, casino's, etc), and if I know that the next bet I place is going to have some $ go toward the MFC, I'll be happy to open an account. It is my interest and my form of entertainment, so why should I be treated like a freak just because of that? I do feel sad when I see people that are addicted, but that's life. Making gambling illegal or whatever will only create a different culture that people will become obsessed to.

I don't think anyone was having a go at gamblers or gambling itself. The problem is advertising. You can't watch a game of footy without watching the equivalent of a short film in gambling advertising. Do you think those who have become addicted to gambling should have a constant reminder of how simple it is to sit in a dark room on the internet and anonymously gamble away their lives while they are watching a game football.

[Flying Cloud 152]

Like many of the posters above I did hold concerns in regard to the Deesbet sponsorship, however, having read this thread I am now less concerned. Also it is worth remembering that the MelbourneFC uses some of its funds, which come from a range of sources including Deesbet, to support a number of Community Partners as well as working with the City of Casey on some initiatives in that community. If I had my choice then I would prefer not, but accept it is something we probably can't be concerned about. We need the funds.

[Guest 36DD]

I think the question is certainly worth raising 36DD.

If I recall in my first post I lamented the seeming contradiction of having a pokie lease while having the founder of Reach as the president of the club.

I think a few points can be made

Gambling is an Australian pastime, and last year 80% of Australian placed a bet of some form. Gambling is legal and that won't change.

Pokies

From a purely economic perspective, the productivity commission has noted that gambling directly puts $11 Billion into the economy and is a sizeable portion of state govt revenue (nearing 10%). They have stated that gambling has a net positive effect on the economy...with one exception: Pokies.

The productivity commission (hardly a radical left-wing group) have identified that in relation to Pokies, the cost of problem gamblers on the community has a net deficit on the economy. They are supportive of Andrew Wilkie's bill which proposes that gamblers have to pre-commit to a certain amount that they will gamble before they begin, and cannot continue once they have reached that amount.

Although there are critics of pre-commitment, the fact that Pokie figureheads have been so outspoken against the proposal means that it will have an impact.

40% of all gambling revenue on pokies comes from problem gamblers. The pubs and businesses (and MFC) that are profiting from these machines do so at the cost of a small number of people whose lives have been ruined by their addiction.

Although the number of problem gamblers may not be enourmous (don't have the figures)ten people will be impacted by every one problem gambler - they steal, lie, cheat, decieve...not because they are bad people, but are usually trying to recover losses, and in the process lose more. The social impacts are magnified and shouldn't be underestimated.

Research published in The Age last year showed hard evidence that there is a direct link between rates of crime such as theft and burglery in areas that have high numbers of Pokies. While some may argue that the demographic make-up of a suburb with high Pokie numbers is likely to be of low socio-economic status (which they are) - the research showed an increase in those areas after Pokies were introduced.

It goes back to my original point - Melbourne is trying to establish itself in the city of Casey and build connections with the one of the fastest growing regions in Australia. This is a good thing. However, they also have Pokie licences in the city of Casey. Reaching out to a community while being complicit in a profit making venture that has a net social and economic deficit on the same community is clearly unstable moral ground.

The Wilkie bill has real potential impacts for the Demons. If revenue goes down, which it will, then the Dees economic forecasts go out the window. This means the economic argument for Pokies is weakened.

Gambling Advertising

In relation to the increase in gambling advertising - please read the Image Makers (1984) by William Meyers - more advertising will equal more gambling.

Personally, for a short while I enjoyed a bet on the horses until I realised I was no good at it. I was amazed, however, that even when I decided to stop, I would find it hard not to walk into a TAB if I happened past one. The point is, if there are more opportunities to gamble, people will gamble more.

Economists (Of the Jeff Kennett mould) argue that humans are rational and will make economic decisions in their best interest.

Behavioural economists will tell you, and prove to you, that when humans are emotionally aroused, they stop thinking rationally. People in their sober rational state will always agree that they should gamble less, lose weight, eat better, get exercise...but when they see the lights and hear the sounds, or when the feel hungry and walk past a cake shop...they move out of their sober rational state and into an emotional state that they cannot rationally control.

If you are interested in this stuff read Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely. It is both hilarious and quite astonishing.

Let's have horse racing and casinos - let's keep gambling out of local comunities and stop advertising to an audience full of children and in the process normalize a practice that has the potential to ruin lives.

Lastly - what we buy sends signals to those who produce what we buy. It is impossible to consume ethicically all the time. If you buy Fair Trade, it makes a difference. If you buy RSPCA approved eggs, it makes a difference. If you buy environmentally sound products, it amkes a difference. Producers don't care about the ethics (generally), they care about what people are buying and will change if that's what the consumer wants.

PS - those gas plumes at Crown are the quivalent to one year of gas use for a household. But they are pretty, and certainly get me emotionally aroused.

Cheers

------

Thanks for that Bhima, will definitely check out those book, definately the issues at hand are complex, far greater than just the Dees being sponsored by Ezybet. I guess you can just try and live your live as best you can without it impacting too negatively on others of which the post has proved is easier said than done.

Edited May 20, 2011 by 36DD

[Guest 36DD]

This thread is getting beyond a joke.

How many junior sporting teams cry out for sponsorship, and how many of them are happy to accept McDonalds as a major sponsor? Wouldn't that be advertising unhealthy eating - leading to more obesity within our children?

A local junior sporting team are sponsored by a local RSL Club, but I can assure you, the $10k+ that they receive each year is a valuable contribution.

I'm not denying that gambling, like alcohol and drugs, can have fatal outcomes for some people, and I strongly support the groups and resources that are available for this kind of thing.

How many of you turned up to the MFC Race Day at Cranbourne (I think) earlier this year? I'm sure there will be some that wont put their hand up, but I bet (no pun intended) that you couldn't give a rats where the day was held. And I wouldn't be surprised if your kids loved watching the horsey's!

I am a punter (horses, casino's, etc), and if I know that the next bet I place is going to have some $ go toward the MFC, I'll be happy to open an account. It is my interest and my form of entertainment, so why should I be treated like a freak just because of that? I do feel sad when I see people that are addicted, but that's life. Making gambling illegal or whatever will only create a different culture that people will become obsessed to.

If we are going the moral thing, why not shut down Facebook, etc. How many marraiges or lives been destroyed because of Facebook?

If any gambling agency is happy to put money in to the MFC, they have my full support. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones that can have a punt without losing my house, etc.

Hey mate, not against gambling at all, just concerned for the people who become addicted and cant call a halt to things. I also feel that calling the sponsorship Deesbet is disingenuous as it could be argued that it exploits our colours and nickname to lessen queries over the potential issues involved with problem gambling. But by all means have a punt, enjoy it, I just feel for those who's enjoyment is long gone yet they still persist.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Hey mate, not against gambling at all, just concerned for the people who become addicted and cant call a halt to things. I also feel that calling the sponsorship Deesbet is disingenuous as it could be argued that it exploits our colours and nickname to lessen queries over the potential issues involved with problem gambling. But by all means have a punt, enjoy it, I just feel for those who's enjoyment is long gone yet they still persist.

Sorry, I just feel that those who are put off by a gambling company sponsoring us are being quite precious. Do you think if we stopped gambling advertising/sponsorships/etc would stop people from getting addicted? Absolutely not. So why shouldn't we accept the money they are willing to pay us?

Still waiting for comments about McDonalds/Junior Sports sponsorships, but I guess that's "different".

[DemonDave 1,092]

Do you think if we stopped gambling advertising/sponsorships/etc would stop people from getting addicted?

Do you think more, or less, people would be smoking Benson & Hedges or Marlboro cigarettes if they were able to have their ads on TV every adbreak, or be reminded at the footy "this quarter of footy bought to you by Winnies Blues, only $12.99 at shops everywhere, buy some today!"

[DemonDave 1,092]

BTW I'm with you on Facebook. Could we include Twitter too?

But how would we know which days Nathan Jones go surfing or walks his dog?

Or what meal Colin Sylvia had last night?

[The Chazz 4,077]

Do you think more, or less, people would be smoking Benson & Hedges or Marlboro cigarettes if they were able to have their ads on TV every adbreak, or be reminded at the footy "this quarter of footy bought to you by Winnies Blues, only $12.99 at shops everywhere, buy some today!"

I think the reason why less people smoke these days is more because of the way they are treated if they want to smoke when they go out. It is basically an inconvenience to smoke these days, which I think is fantastic. It doesn't stop the addicted ones though.

Maybe the appropriate authorities need to advertise more about the damage that gambling does?

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

Can't blame this on Crown though. I feel more safe in the Southbank area than I do in any other part of the CBD.

We all have an opinion on Crown; yours is correct if you ask you, but if you ask me, mine is correct. So many people go there, so it has to make me right, but so many don't so it makes you right.

To be honest, the last couple of times I have been there I haven't even gambled. Just enjoy the atmosphere, and they have some good bars and eateries, and it's a good perve too!

Point taken, Crown is quite palpable if you do not go near the Gambling tables ( and those 100's of security Cameras)!!

Edited May 20, 2011 by why you little

[beelzebub 23,383]

With respect to the OP ( as much the rest of the thread has gone tangential) . Am I happy enough to get sponsorship money for the club from Deesbet ? YES

Am I compromised by this ? NO

Do I think it would make any difference in the great scheme of things if DeesBet didnt exist ? NO...ppl would just go elsewhere.

I agree with Jaded ( sorry ..lol ) We arent the moral compass of society. We can educate our players in many things, responsible gambling amongst them , but thats really as far as it goes.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

Still waiting for comments about McDonalds/Junior Sports sponsorships, but I guess that's "different".

Yeah, it's a good point Billy, I think most people agree that it's not ideal.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

That really is a disappointing viewpoint however speaks volumes about what we value in life....the almighty $$....we will put aside virtuous human emotions such as love, compassion and concern for others welfare all for some coin. I totally understand that it is pretty much part and parcel of the world we live in, I find it disappointing none the less. I am fortunate that I have my vices all under control, save for the odd moments when you need to cut loose, but I really feel for those who cannot call stumps when things get out of hand and business such as Betezy prey on these individuals.

What can I say, I live and work in the real world, and in the real world big corporations can be socially responsible, but it is their main job to turn over a profit.

A club that has struggled to survive would be stupid to turn down any type of sponsorship, be it for beer, gambling or cars (car accidents ruin more lives than gambling).

I think our only responsibility is to protect our employees from developing gambling issues by educating them on the hazards of irresponsible gambling, which we do. Beyond that, it is the responsibility of individuals to educate themselves and be responsible with their money.

I'm sorry but we are not a welfare organisation. It might sound harsh, but it's true.

[Striker475 696]

Bhima, that's a great read. Won't have as much of an impact on the MFC as other clubs who operate more licenses, but nevertheless still will.

In terms of the advertising, I'm seriously starting to dislike it. It's not just about the punters, it puts the AFL at risk for match-fixing. Think about it - player x has an agreement with a friend that if at QT/3QT (at which point the odds flash up on the scoreboard) if the opposing team is out to a certain value the player may start to turn the ball over, make 'mistakes' and such. I know it's not something we like to think about it, but it's always a possibility.

With the involvement of the MFC itself, I think Deesbet and the like are morally fuzzy - if you win, you win, if you lose, the club wins. The club, your passion, is encouraging you to lose...

[darkhorse72 1,925]

At this point in time its a legal product and provide revenue for the club.

Personally I barely notice it and I don't gamble, have a hard time spending $2 on the 20c pokies here at the burswood casino.

But the amount of gambling advertising is now mad and having it at the footy game should be banned (on scoreboard). If you want to bet go to a tab or log online etc.

Even when we are one of the big clubs in Melbourne again, we'll still need the revenue stream IMHO.