THE HOUSE THAT DEAN BUILT

[Striker475 696]

My suspicion is that this year's going to be a writeoff. I don't think you can reappoint a coach if after four years nothing has really happened. New blood will be needed. I now doubt Malthouse will come to Melbourne. He'll want revenge on Eddie for kicking him out and will take Carlton. It would be a shorter journey getting them up to challenge than it would be with Melbourne. I don't see Paul Roos coaching after just one year out.

He won't go to Carlton if Carlton finish top 4 and/or make the prelims, because Ratten will get a new contract in that situation.

The only answer to me is to do what Essendon did -- get Garry Lyon and get someone, perhaps Roos, to act as a senior assistant. Go for a massive funding drive to pay for what is needed. We also need to recruit a couple of champions. Open the cheque book and try to lure a Jimmy Bartel or a Goddard. Someone who can set a gold standard for a young group.

If we're going to go down that path, may as well appoint Viney. I know, Jack will be coming through, but the issue is a) Garry doesn't want it and B) he's been out of the game way, way too long.

[daisycutter 29,341]

Another Melbourne supporter letting the players off the hook.

I know we don't want to get stuck into Green, Davey, et al. but they have been pathetic this season.

And I would argue that the players that Bailey has 'brought in' have been a frackload better than the 'senior' players he inherited.

Our list was in worse shape than I imagined, and we are still feeling the repercussions.

If it takes a Malthouse to get consistency from Green, Davey, et al, then fine.

But they do not get to be 'leaders' in that team because they clearly are not.

I think you are morphing into Don Quixote now rpfc

I think there is plenty of blame for all participants to share. Don't you agree, if you think about it?

But you can't get rid of half the team, bottom out again and start another 7-year plan can you? Or is that what you want?

Easier to cast off the teacher, but only if you can snare a saviour.

Food for thought

[Ned 156]

He won't go to Carlton if Carlton finish top 4 and/or make the prelims, because Ratten will get a new contract in that situation.

If we're going to go down that path, may as well appoint Viney. I know, Jack will be coming through, but the issue is a) Garry doesn't want it and B) he's been out of the game way, way too long.

On Carlton, agreed; but if they don't I think he will.

Viney isn't bright enough.

[rpfc 28,052]

I think you are morphing into Don Quixote now rpfc

I think there is plenty of blame for all participants to share. Don't you agree, if you think about it?

But you can't get rid of half the team, bottom out again and start another 7-year plan can you? Or is that what you want?

Easier to cast off the teacher, but only if you can snare a saviour.

Food for thought

I want people to realise that until our current 'senior' players are relegated to periphery positions - we will not be relevant.

That is why we have to have the patience to wait for Grimes, Scully, Trengove, Watts, Morton, Jurrah, Frawley, Garland, Petterd, Tapscott, Gysberts, and Wonaeeamirri to dominate this team, in numbers and leadership positions before we can have the mental fortitude to be top 4.

I think this is the primary disconnect - fans expecting more than the team can deliver, and the reason the team cannot deliver it is because of the issues of its 'senior' players.

No windmills I assure you...

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

I want people to realise that until our current 'senior' players are relegated to periphery positions - we will not be relevant.

That is why we have to have the patience to wait for Grimes, Scully, Trengove, Watts, Morton, Jurrah, Frawley, Garland, Petterd, Tapscott, Gysberts, and Wonaeeamirri to dominate this team, in numbers and leadership positions before we can have the mental fortitude to be top 4.

I think this is the primary disconnect - fans expecting more than the team can deliver, and the reason the team cannot deliver it is because of the issues of its 'senior' players.

No windmills I assure you...

Yes the Team List is way out of balance, and it shall be for this year (moreso than we thought)

Have we got it right with recruiting so many kids?? I am not sure right now.

It was the right decision to lose Junior & Bruce i have no doubt, but i fear we have not recruited any true leaders to set examples. Patience is all we have right now, but Saturday really worries me-The Team came out firing, which to me says Bailey & co had the team set up right. But we went to water as soon as any resistance was shown.

That said i hope we RUN the Aints into the ground next week-They are Finished. Their rebuild will start next year.

If our leaders do not stand up against the Aints i would be slowly dropping them to Casey...we cannot keep putting "Bad" games into our kids, that teaches them nothing.

Has a Captain ever played a more passive useless game as Brad Green did last Saturday?

What message does that give our young kiddies??

[daisycutter 29,341]

I want people to realise that until our current 'senior' players are relegated to periphery positions - we will not be relevant.

Is leadership limited to 'senior' players? Wouldn't you include coaching staff in the "leadership" group?

Its definitely broken and I for one don't want to start another 7-year grand plan, comrade.

[rpfc 28,052]

Is leadership limited to 'senior' players? Wouldn't you include coaching staff in the "leadership" group?

Its definitely broken and I for one don't want to start another 7-year grand plan, comrade.

Who said anything about 7 years?

Or starting again?

Richmond are in better shape than us so far this year because they are getting consistent performances from Foley, Tuck, Miller, Newman, and King. Similarly at WCE.

I believe we will be better than them when our kids take the primary positions and the primary load, which will be in a couple of years time.

The coaching is important but there is no quick-fix for our (young) talent to become the primary players in our team.

Edited May 15, 2011 by rpfc

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Richmond also have had a lot of luck with injuries this year.

Same with West Coast.

Coincidence?

(obviously the moral of the story is that players on losing teams are more likely to get injured. Probably because of bad assistant coaches.)

Edited May 16, 2011 by Artie Bucco

[Deeflated 0]

Another Melbourne supporter letting the players off the hook.

I know we don't want to get stuck into Green, Davey, et al. but they have been pathetic this season.

And I would argue that the players that Bailey has 'brought in' have been a frackload better than the 'senior' players he inherited.

Our list was in worse shape than I imagined, and we are still feeling the repercussions.

Probably similar words were echoed by Bomber supporters last year, terrible list with no leaders...

I like Bailey personally, presents really well and took on a VERY tough job. But I think at the end of this year his term has run its course.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Extra extra! Read all about it! Young developing team puts in inconsistent performances! Shock! Horror!

Senior players that weren't good enough in 2007, have become good players... in games where the talented kids step up also.

They are not stars in their own right who can carry the load.

I think it's funny that people talk about it not being good enough that Bailey is 4 years in and we aren't winning more games.

You know the rebuild wasn't complete 3 years ago, right?

You know that means those kids we brought in are still in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd year, in that case, right?

It takes longer. Longer than many are willing to accept.

A new coach won't change that, it'll just buy you time and excuses as he finds his way with a list he didn't build.

Look at the other really young teams in the league - Port, Brisbane, North, Adelaide...

See a theme here? All very young, inconsistent & often putting in putrid performances.

In fact, Bailey gets a little tick because when we perform, we really look pretty damn good.

Ignore the evidence all you like, but that's the reality.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Probably similar words were echoed by Bomber supporters last year, terrible list with no leaders...

I like Bailey personally, presents really well and took on a VERY tough job. But I think at the end of this year his term has run its course.

That ignores the age of their list, and the fact the changes to the interchange actually suited their list very well.

Hird & Thompson have done very well as coaches, but there are other advantages they have over us also.

And I think you're pretty harsh on Watson as a leader.

[daisycutter 29,341]

Extra extra! Read all about it! Young developing team puts in inconsistent performances! Shock! Horror!

Senior players that weren't good enough in 2007, have become good players... in games where the talented kids step up also.

They are not stars in their own right who can carry the load.

I think it's funny that people talk about it not being good enough that Bailey is 4 years in and we aren't winning more games.

You know the rebuild wasn't complete 3 years ago, right?

You know that means those kids we brought in are still in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd year, in that case, right?

It takes longer. Longer than many are willing to accept.

A new coach won't change that, it'll just buy you time and excuses as he finds his way with a list he didn't build.

Look at the other really young teams in the league - Port, Brisbane, North, Adelaide...

See a theme here? All very young, inconsistent & often putting in putrid performances.

In fact, Bailey gets a little tick because when we perform, we really look pretty damn good.

Ignore the evidence all you like, but that's the reality.

So Artie, do you "see" a premiership in 2014 under Bailey? ....or a you just running up the flag to keep the natives quiet.

[Deeflated 0]

That ignores the age of their list, and the fact the changes to the interchange actually suited their list very well.

Hird & Thompson have done very well as coaches, but there are other advantages they have over us also.

And I think you're pretty harsh on Watson as a leader.

Clever Artie. I didn't question Watsons leadership, only that similar sentiments were made by bomber supporters about their own list last year. You dispute that?

[Deeflated 0]

Extra extra! Read all about it! Young developing team puts in inconsistent performances! Shock! Horror!

Are we really that young? Note 2 things, the age is stated by what they turn during the year (months would have taken too long), and the season is based on AFL debut (so some may have been at the club longer).

This is the 'young & inexperienced' team that rolled over on Saturday Vs Kangas.

James Frawley

Age:23 5th Season

Matthew Warnock

Age:27 6th Season

Clint Bartram

Age:23 6th Season

Nathan Jones

Age:23 6th season

Colin Garland

Age: 23 5th Season

Luke Tapscott

Age:20 1st Season

Ricky Petterd

Age:23 5th Season

Lynden Dunn

Age:24 6th Season

Brad Green

Age:30 11th Season

Colin Sylvia

Age:26 8th Season

Liam Jurrah

Age:23 3rd Season

Addam Maric

Age:21 4th Season

Jordan Gysberts

Age:20 2nd Season

Jack Watts

Age:20 3rd Season

Aaron Davey

Age:28 8th Season

Stefan Martin

Age:25 4th Season

Brent Moloney

Age:27 9th Season

Neville Jetta

Age:21 3rd Season

Michael Newton

Age:24 5th Season

Austin Wonaeamirri

Age:23 4th Season

Jamie Bennell

Age:21 3rd Season

Rohan Bail

Age:23 3rd Season

[Rogue 585]

Are we really that young? Note 2 things, the age is stated by what they turn during the year (months would have taken too long), and the season is based on AFL debut (so some may have been at the club longer).

This is the 'young & inexperienced' team that rolled over on Saturday Vs Kangas.

My answer is a resounding yes.

2/3 of the team are 23 or younger, and of those seven players 24 or older a few are pretty inexperienced (Martin, Newton, etc).

[Guest 36DD]

Are we really that young? Note 2 things, the age is stated by what they turn during the year (months would have taken too long), and the season is based on AFL debut (so some may have been at the club longer).

This is the 'young & inexperienced' team that rolled over on Saturday Vs Kangas.

Based on age and experience you would expect Green, Davey, Moloney, Jamar and Sylvia to be in the best players most weeks. This season you would be happy with Moloney and Jamars efforts and just a little way back would be Col. So that leaves Green and Davey who need to step up, shame that they are our captain and vice captain.

Just considering their age and season can be misleading, games played is definately the most pertinent stat.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Rogue
No need to quote massive slabs of text - just enough to indicate what you're replying to is fine

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

so.. this week will see us without the services of

Grimes

Jamar

Trengove

Rivers ?

Garland

Bail

Dunn

Scully and

McKenzie ?

that is nothing short of a disgrace, our 30th/31st best players do not belong on AFL ground, at leats not yet. Christ we are in trouble

[Deeflated 0]

My answer is a resounding yes.

2/3 of the team are 23 or younger, and of those seven players 24 or older a few are pretty inexperienced (Martin, Newton, etc).

The question was posed more towards the excuse for Saturday's effort. Not that many players are playing their 1st or 2nd season. Are we a young list? Of course we are. Are we too young to guts out games? No way! Losing is one thing, but the efforts against Hawthorn, Eagles, and now North was Gold Coast like in patches. Now that's a bunch of kids.

[beelzebub 23,200]

say goodbye to the 8 for season 2011

[Striker475 696]

so.. this week will see us without the services of

Grimes

Jamar

Trengove

Rivers ?

Garland

Bail

Dunn

Scully and

McKenzie ?

that is nothing short of a disgrace, our 30th/31st best players do not belong on AFL ground, at leats not yet. Christ we are in trouble

B: Bartram Warnock Frawley

HB: Tapscott JMac Davey

C: Green Moloney Gysberts

HF: Watts Newton Maric

F: Wonna Bate LJ

R: Martin Sylvia Jones

Int: McKenzie Jetta Petterd

Sub: Evans

fingers crossed

[Rogue 585]

so.. this week will see us without the services of

[...]

Christ we are in trouble

For sure.

[daisycutter 29,341]

B: Bartram Warnock Frawley

HB: Tapscott JMac Davey

C: Green Moloney Gysberts

HF: Watts Newton Maric

F: Wonna Bate LJ

R: Martin Sylvia Jones

Int: McKenzie Jetta Petterd

Sub: Evans

fingers crossed

revolutionary

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

B: Bartram Warnock Frawley

HB: Tapscott JMac Davey

C: Green Moloney Gysberts

HF: Watts Newton Maric

F: Wonna Bate LJ

R: Martin Sylvia Jones

Int: McKenzie Jetta Petterd

Sub: Evans

fingers crossed

it's probably pretty fair to say that all the bolded players are either substandard for AFL players or so young that they cannot be expected to make much difference. If we had a full list to choose from only 2 of those blokes would be in there, probably Tappy and Gys

ouch

[Guest Artie Bucco]

So Artie, do you "see" a premiership in 2014 under Bailey? ....or a you just running up the flag to keep the natives quiet.

I'd lean more towards 2015, but yes, I think he could.

I don't see any concrete evidence to the contrary.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

I'd lean more towards 2015, but yes, I think he could.

I don't see any concrete evidence to the contrary.

Well if Bails can turn this around from this point, he is the strongest person we will ever know...I hope you are right because i like to see a good person fight for what he wants

Regardless of the results i will continue to buy memberships...