Of course once we have bigger bodies and more experienced players we will obviously be better off, no matter what game plan we are utilising. However, we saw what happened to Geelong in the 2008 GF, and more importantly what happened to them in last years preliminary final. They got strangled. The plan revolves around fast movement of the ball and a wave of runners always ready to rebound and receive a quick handball. Intense forward pressure/tackling and locking the ball in the forward half is where the game is at now...there was little resistance to Geelong running and gunning in 2007. They are still the masters of the game plan we are trying to emulate now, because their ground kicking and handballs are so accurate they more often then not punish opposition on the rebound. Our skills are nowhere near that level yet. I will try and get my hands on some stats that reveal how many times we score from turnovers and how many times we get punished when we turn the ball over. I fear it will be damning against top 8 teams

Great contribution- please try -very valuable imput imo.

And that's YOUR version of discussion ... denigration and ridicule?

Chief, when someone tells you a site is for informed discussion, it suggests what you have said is uninformed and you are unwelcome. It's a pretty arrogant statement. That was followed up by suggesting I look at the improvement since 2008. So yeah, I thought that was idiotic. To spell it out, I should admire Melbourne improving from a season of three wins?

I confess to denigration and ridicule. Not sure I initiated hostilities though.

Chief, when someone tells you a site is for informed discussion, it suggests what you have said is uninformed and you are unwelcome. It's a pretty arrogant statement. That was followed up by suggesting I look at the improvement since 2008. So yeah, I thought that was idiotic. To spell it out, I should admire Melbourne improving from a season of three wins?

I confess to denigration and ridicule. Not sure I initiated hostilities though.

Hostile?

lol

What I meant was there has been steady improvement every year since 2008.

And "informed discussion" was mentioned in tandem with "let's let more of 2011 happen."

The 'informed' I spoke of was the passage of time to have an informed view of improvement, or lack thereof, in this football season.

So, ummm, yeah...

Hostile.

Hostile?

lol

What I meant was there has been steady improvement every year since 2008.

And "informed discussion" was mentioned in tandem with "let's let more of 2011 happen."

The 'informed' I spoke of was the passage of time to have an informed view of improvement, or lack thereof, in this football season.

So, ummm, yeah...

Hostile.

Yeah, er, I didn't write the word hostile anywhere. But I take the point of what you're saying above and fair enough.

I don't know what you're waiting for and the odd good win won't change the facts. Our style of footy is a mile behind most other clubs, which is why inferior teams such as Brisbane almost beat us.

I'm simply waiting for the rest of the season to unfold to be honest. There is so many more games and areas of improvement to occur, I can't wait. Improvement in execution and contested ball being a couple of many.

You clearly don't watch footy with any acumen, or feeling for the game.

oh yeah brilliant argument you really stitched me up there PFT

Yeah, er, I didn't write the word hostile anywhere. But I take the point of what you're saying above and fair enough.

Uh... You did understand what the word "hostilities" meant when you used it, right..?

I found the following discussion from Brad Scott on AFL Insiders tonight interesting and very relevant to this topic. When asked by Jason Dunstall about their game plan and is it ever evolving, here is what Scott said for those interested: -

"I think one of the mythical things about the gameplan is that there is one play book that you refer to, and that's the way we play at all times. You know, the game evolves so quickly that, I can say that the things we thought were going to work eight weeks ago, we pretty quickly worked out that they're not going to work. So things evolve very quickly and change, so... there is no set game plan as such, you have your preferred method of how you want to play, but it (the game) evolves so quickly that if you're so rigid you can't change, that you get left behind."

Looks as though the Kanga's had to re-jig their plans once some of the form/plans executed from opposition sides was exposed during the NAB Cup.

What I thought was also relevant was when he added not that long after when referring to the Port Adelaide turnaround against Adelaide: -

You can talk game plan/tactics all you like, the fundamentals of the gameplan are still winning the ball.

The stats indicated that Port Adelaide starting doing that after quarter time.

This is essentially my point regarding the strength of our midfield, or the lack-of/inexperience of it. When our contested ball and clearances are at a competitive level, we look good. And the stats from rpfc's measurement thread support this. Snoopy's "It's our midfield stupid" thread is also a good indicator of our inconsistency and lack of strength and depth in our midfield. Apart from Sylvia & Moloney who have been somewhat consistent so far this year, it's rather thin and inexperienced (of which 2 are out injured) and quite obvious:

Gysberts - 5 games

McKenzie - 22 games

Bail - 14 games

Trengove - 22 games

Scully - 21 games

Clearly, these guys who are integral to our future midfield (you could probably add the yet-to-debut Blease) and just need more games together. It's still in it's infancy and we'll see more inconsistent performances in the short-to-medium term. Strengthening & Conditioning as well as understanding the requirements of work ethic on game day are required. These guys are competitive, they just need to grow.

Nice pickup HT.

It's elementary really, but it is nice when it's put into words and reinforced by the real "experts", for all to see.

You clearly don't watch footy with any acumen, or feeling for the game.

I think that you have touched on what it is making me and probably a lot of others jittery.

The thinks that are mising for mine are process and at times, intenstity. From body language it also appears as though many footballers are not enjoying their footy and are playing on fear.

Some of these things are not easily measures by reading a scoreboard or stats. Like HT though I would like to see more of the season unfold. I am hoping that lessons have been heeded from the Hawthorn game and that we will lift things a notch against the better opposition.

Looks like we're all getting very nervous.

We can feel a belting around the corner.

Thought we had one in round 2!

Uh... You did understand what the word "hostilities" meant when you used it, right..?

Yeah, I do. Hostilities and hostile mean two different things. You seem to have troube reading, in addition to difficulties expressing yourself.

Yeah, I do. Hostilities and hostile mean two different things. You seem to have troube reading, in addition to difficulties expressing yourself.

Why the hostilities?

Hahaha yeah, ok, it's not you, it's everyone else...

Thought we had one in round 2!

There will be another...

There will be another...

Yes I have a horrible feeling it might be Queens birthday!

I think that you have touched on what it is making me and probably a lot of others jittery.

The things that are mising for mine are process and at times, intenstity. From body language it also appears as though many footballers are not enjoying their footy and are playing on fear.

Some of these things are not easily measures by reading a scoreboard or stats.

Sure intensity for longer consistent periods has been missing. They've identified and recognised where it has dropped off and look to address it.

You've touched on body language, and I tend to agree here. Although, I'm not entirely sure that it is fear. To be honest, I'd be only really guessing as to the cause. I've thought previously that the feeling within the group, etc was pretty good. It still might be good, and we're simply reading too much into it.

But invariably instances stick in my mind. Having watched the game again, and seeing the after reaction to Sylvia's goal in the last I thought for one, was strange. I didn't like it. He was clearly frustrated IMO. To not acknowledge the efforts of Grimes to get it to him, or any other teammate for that matter was weird, because he usually does approach a teammate. Equally not being approached by any teammate on the way to the centre, whilst not out of the ordinary, also was a little peculiar. Again, it might well be nothing. Perhaps just a little annoyance bubbling to the surface having missed previous kicks for goal.

Frawley looks to be playing within himself (ie. not as attacking), maybe he hasn't released himself from the shackles of the injury he has overcome ? It would have to be playing on his mind a little.

On the flipside: Having seen them sing the song in the rooms after the "bye" game, on the surface it appears all good. They would have enjoyed getting away, and they'll enjoy it again over in Perth. They will also enjoy this week off.

oh yeah brilliant argument you really stitched me up there PFT

Are you one of those "just kick it !!" supporters at the footy ?

You seem to think that it's as simple as 'see ball, get ball, kick ball forward'. The game is far more sophisticated now. And it's where we're being left behind.

You can only celebrate so many goals with fervor, before they become blasé in an avalanche.

Another goal against a GC Suns that has rolled over isn't much to cheer about.

I imagine they'd immediately want to put their head down and achieve another 5.

Reading too much into it...

You can only celebrate so many goals with fervor, before they become blasé in an avalanche.

Another goal against a GC Suns that has rolled over isn't much to cheer about.

I imagine they'd immediately want to put their head down and achieve another 5.

Reading too much into it...

Maybe you're right. Although in this case Sylvia unleashed a great external cheer and fist pumped himself as though he was exorcising his demons. No love for Grimes though who was within arms length. Not much to cheer about ? - you could hear him in Ipswich. Just an observation, and it probably is nothing.

Yes I have a horrible feeling it might be Queens birthday!

Worse still, it might be against someone who aren't the Premiers...

West Coast??!?

Are you one of those "just kick it !!" supporters at the footy ?

You seem to think that it's as simple as 'see ball, get ball, kick ball forward'. The game is far more sophisticated now. And it's where we're being left behind.

no, what you aren't addressing is my assertion that your argument makes no sense because we performed very well against all types of opposition on about a dozen occasions last year. If we are so primitive in our tactical approach how do you explain that? It's like you are saying that every club has gotten 30% better since last year, except we have stayed the same. It's the two-week memory syndrome that 90% of this site are afflicted with.

What has been so bad about this year anyway? Good effort round 1 against a decent side, week 2 we were bad but at least we smashed a premiership contender for a quarter, the Lions game was one would have dropped in the past BUT WE DIDN'T, and a 90 point win . All games had one thing in common and that is we totally stopped for one quarter in each. We all know that with such a young side we are expected to have these lulls in consistency, but clearly the lulls are the exception, not the rule. When you realise that many individuals in the side have simply delivered way below themselves thus far this year you realise you are seeing a watered-down version of what we really are, and even that has us at 7th on the ladder.

We have three poor-to-average oppositions coming up, if we will beat them all, like we should, we will be on 5.5-1.5 and probably 3rd on the ladder, 3 years ago we lost round 1 and 2 by 100 points each. Some people are suggesting we haven't improved at all, that is mind-blowing to me

West Coast??!?

Maybe. They're very well drilled.

Will be interesting match-ups down back. Kennedy, Darling, Q, Cox/Naitanui. MacDonald anyone ?

Maybe you're right. Although in this case Sylvia unleashed a great external cheer and fist pumped himself as though he was exorcising his demons. No love for Grimes though who was within arms length. Not much to cheer about ? - you could hear him in Ipswich. Just an observation, and it probably is nothing.

Yeah, I see what you mean, but there could be a multitude of reasons for it.

Sylvia could have faced some internal or external scrutiny, so turning around and kicking a goal might be personally more of a release for him, than the team as a whole.

Or alternatively, he could have expected his teammates to be just as animated about the goal, but when they put their heads down to get in with it, he stayed committed to the celebration because ending his clear excitement in a split-second of realisation that he was alone, would look great on the Sunday footy shows.

And make him look like a [censored], moreso than the largely unnoticed solo celebration.

Not every goal celebration plays out like it should anyway.

Brad Miller's goal at the tigers, he managed to celebrate with the old high-five-in-the-eye trick.

Nasty.