I see what you are saying, but just because he promotes his love for the club via twitter & his website, doesn't mean he loves it more than a player who doesn't promote themselves.

I agree with your point about him sacrificing himself to play a role for the team.

I'm not sure he has any other choice at this stage though.

I see what you are saying, but just because he promotes his love for the club via twitter & his website, doesn't mean he loves it more than a player who doesn't promote themselves.

I suppose I was saying that in his case it is more than just a perception... it is there for all to see. But I do agree that it doesn't mean his love for the club is any greater than that of others who are less "vocal".

I see what you are saying, but just because he promotes his love for the club via twitter & his website, doesn't mean he loves it more than a player who doesn't promote themselves.

I agree with your point about him sacrificing himself to play a role for the team.

I'm not sure he has any other choice at this stage though.

Maybe the above line is what i mean when talking of Jonesy's love for the club.

I think that sacrifice for the team is a lot more important than some people on here give credit for.

But as i said, i shall watch Nathan's game very closely, as the Dawks always play extra tough, and we must match them.

Edited March 31, 201114 yr by why you little

I seriously think that without Jones there doing the grunt work that he does week in and week out, he would be sorely missed. Everyone seems to forget how much he improved over the 2010 season and I believe once season 2011 is up and running properly (pre-season and first round games are never a good indicator), that improvement will continue.

Spot on.

Tweets or not it is clear he bleeds the red and blue (he is not a self promoter, he is an enthusiast).

What is really impressive about our team is thart we have a host of players who bleed the red and blue and express it in their own way.

The thing that i'd like to add about Jones (which i don't think has been mentioned in this thread), is the fact that his style of play is perfect for finals footy. When the pressure is on it's players like jones that throw themselves in kamakazi style to win the loose ball. We've seen it for years that players like Yze or Davey struggle in finals footy and it's the tough nuts that rise to the top.

Now i'm not saying that Davey can't play finals footy, but there's definately a big role for the Jonse's and Moloney's in our quest for a flag.

Home with the flu and just watched the replay of the game - Jones wasn't quite as bad early on as I thought on the day, but it's instances where he just kills momentum that are almost unforgiveable.

There was a chain of about 7 handballs in the first half, as we ran the ball in numbers from the HBF to the HFF, but the ball ended up in Jones' hands for the last kick to Jurrah inside 50.

Jones fluffed what should have been a straightforward hit-up.

He kicked it under pressure, but that was his decision and I think there was room to draw the defender and handball again.

This would have resulted in the next player having a shot as they'd be within range and Jurrah's lead would have been too early.

It just fluffed what was a plum opportunity, and those things stick out.

Anyone could have been in the same position and miskicked, but it was Jones that did it.

Oh, and 3rd quarter, 4 mins gone, advancing the ball nicely in the centre square, Jetta perfect handball to Jones streaming past but Jones fumbles, turnover, Swans goal.

Killer turnovers at crucial moments.

And these are simple tasks. He really needs to work on getting these right.

I'd rather a player than can do the ordinary things extraordinarily well...

looks like Chunks tweeting backfired on him today...

at around 12:40pm he tweeted:

"She's a marathon today! Weights, touch & speed this morning! Jumping on the massage table for a little down time! A bit peckish..."

then at about 2:40pm he tweets:

"Geez got some reactions for saying she's a marathon today! Take a breath people! I'm not complaining I got the best job in the world!"

Dees supporters can be an unforgiving lot :-)

Oh, and 3rd quarter, 4 mins gone, advancing the ball nicely in the centre square, Jetta perfect handball to Jones streaming past but Jones fumbles, turnover, Swans goal.

Killer turnovers at crucial moments.

And these are simple tasks. He really needs to work on getting these right.

I'd rather a player than can do the ordinary things extraordinarily well...

Not arguing that he made a number of mistakes on the weekend, but it is the first game of the year, and if you look at other players you'll soon find a whole host of mistakes that really cost us on the weekend. I don't know why but for some reason mistakes by Jones seem to be more heavily weigted than other players. Maybe it is because people have blinkers on a bit more with out "stars" than they do the lower rated players, or maybe it's the tatts which make people think he's a bit more flashy than he is.

p.s. I'm actually not having a dig at your assessment, just trying to work it out for myself, because I really can't agree with the doom assessments on him

Because he still does it late in the season.

We saw the same from him in 2010.

Some exceptional things, but I just get frustrated by the simple things he messes up, for which there is no excuse.

It's caused, imo, by a lack of focus, or breaks in concentration.

I'm not saying he's alone, but it is a trend with him.

Oh, and 3rd quarter, 4 mins gone, advancing the ball nicely in the centre square, Jetta perfect handball to Jones streaming past but Jones fumbles, turnover, Swans goal.

Killer turnovers at crucial moments.

And these are simple tasks. He really needs to work on getting these right.

I'd rather a player than can do the ordinary things extraordinarily well...

Don't normally like to challenge your posts E25, but watch the replay again and report back on the amount of turnovers J Grimes did, especially in the first half. Of those, can you tell me how many resulted in the Swans scoring? I think a mistake in the backline is the ultimate sin, and that's where Grimes continues to make his.

Don't normally like to challenge your posts E25, but watch the replay again and report back on the amount of turnovers J Grimes did, especially in the first half. Of those, can you tell me how many resulted in the Swans scoring? I think a mistake in the backline is the ultimate sin, and that's where Grimes continues to make his.

Completely different circumstances.

Grimes is expected to perform a high volume of exceptionally difficult kicks in the cases you're talking about.

And he has about 3 years less experience than Jones.

Where Jones has been coughing it up are in instances that he shouldn't.

Completely different circumstances.

Grimes is expected to perform a high volume of exceptionally difficult kicks in the cases you're talking about.

And he has about 3 years less experience than Jones.

Where Jones has been coughing it up are in instances that he shouldn't.

I'll agree to disagree!

Some of Grimes' turnovers last week were inexcusable, in particular one in the first quarter when he kicked to an unopposed Melbourne player and kicked it on the full. I think Goodes ended up with the free kick? This kick was made under minimal pressure.

I love Grimes, and watch him very closely, but I can't for the life of me agree with the Jones criticism while Jack continually makes as costly mistakes, especially in the backline and under no pressure. To support this, how many times did he kick out last week? I'm sure we used Tapscott to try and get over the zones, but if a player, like Grimes, can't kick to himself, run his full measure and kick over the zone that way, I don't want him in our backline! I want him in the team obviously, but gee he hurts us sometimes.

I think I remember the kick to Jurrak that you were talking about - Jurrah was about 15m in front of his bloke but the ball went over his head and Jurrah found himself 15m behind? To be fair to any of the midfielders, if they are on a fast break of some kind and look up and see Jurrah in a one on one, he is unpredictable even to his own players, so I'd excuse them for the missed target, because I'm sure Jurrah has probably faked a lead to catch his opponent off guard and at the same time, caught his own teammates off guard!

I sense a case of rose coloured glasses here. Grimes mistakes fine, Daveys mistakes fine, Jones mistakes unforgivable. If you look for mistakes that is all you will see, If you look for a player doing things right that is all you will see. If by halfway he's still "terrible", then I'll change my views, but until then "Carn Dees, Carn Jonesy"

I sense a case of rose coloured glasses here. Grimes mistakes fine, Daveys mistakes fine, Jones mistakes unforgivable. If you look for mistakes that is all you will see, If you look for a player doing things right that is all you will see. If by halfway he's still "terrible", then I'll change my views, but until then "Carn Dees, Carn Jonesy"

Here here. And I don't see how a mistake under pressure in the backline is more excusable than a mistake under pressure in the midfield. And even a mistake in the backline not under pressure is more excusable than a mistake not under pressure in the midfield. Might get Nath to change his surname to Grimes, then he can make as many as he wants and get away unscathed!

To end this debate, I'm calling on someone with a lot more time on their hands than I to get the clanger stats for last season, and even last week. If they have such a stat as a forced clanger and an unforced clanger, even better! Until then, innocent until proven guilty, or maybe I'm guilty at finding the flaws in everyones game rather than a select few.

I'm talking about the context, but that seems to be beyond the understanding of some...

Possibly, but it just might help in that last Q when everyone is knackered.

Thats a very strong point WYL, that IMO the saints have paid dearly for.

Their loss over the years of Austin Jones, & recently they called the end to Hudghton, imo prematurely. Not to mention Ball...

Last year when they HAD the Grand Final Won, only to let the Pies, just Take it off them with the last thrust forward, was criminal,,, 'SOFT' of the highest Order.

Hudghton, Ball in a run with role, and Aussie Jones running the ball, would likely have done the job for them. Passion for the club, = Heart, beyond the call of duty.

I'm talking about the context, but that seems to be beyond the understanding of some...

Your right, but we shouls analyze a player of his experience and dedication, after we become a stronger Unit.. Thats when we'll see how he truly fits. When he can worry less about others inexperience. It may help his decision making.

Not beyond my understanding at all, I just don't agree with something you said, as it just doesn't stack up to reality. And clearly I am not alone (see below)

I don't see how a mistake under pressure in the backline is more excusable than a mistake under pressure in the midfield. And even a mistake in the backline not under pressure is more excusable than a mistake not under pressure in the midfield.

Due to his midfield positioning, quite often mistakes by Jones will be stopped before resulting in a score against us, and sometimes even by himself. Whereas a player who turns the ball over by a wayward kick in the backline will quite often be rewarding our opponents with a score for little to no effort.

Let this not be construed or twisted to suggest that I dislike Grimes or Davey or the like, I just firmly believe the eternal criticism of Jonesy to be quite over the top and sometimes unfounded. As you said yourself e25, "Jones wasn't quite as bad early on as I thought on the day", and that is what I am talking about. People look at him unfavourably and "on the day" mistakes are all they notice.

looks like Chunks tweeting backfired on him today...

at around 12:40pm he tweeted:

"She's a marathon today! Weights, touch & speed this morning! Jumping on the massage table for a little down time! A bit peckish..."

then at about 2:40pm he tweets:

"Geez got some reactions for saying she's a marathon today! Take a breath people! I'm not complaining I got the best job in the world!"

Dees supporters can be an unforgiving lot :-)

Pretty melodramatic too, by the sounds of it.