I didn't know that?! How did you come across that, because I know that Cameron didn't go.

Saw them at the game!

Well that is an odd one. At least his parents can vouch for the usefulness of the trip then...

Where have you been? Nixon is his representative and your club had to put up with him giving Ralph material in the Hun about our 'disrespectful' contract terms (when he leaves for less) and our awful treatment of Junior (while Bruce chatted with Hawthorn before said 'awful' treatment).

Bruce did not make the comments. You say Nixon made them . Have you spoken to Ralph?

Actually, I was being kind to Cameron here. Whispers to journos can be attributed to the player aswell as their reps. It's no better either way.

And when isn't it? When you are told by someone his folks went to China? When Ralph writes it in the paper? When Clarkson is quoted? When Pelchen blurts it out at a premium members event at the HawkS?

You were at the Pelchen meeting.

You believe only what you want to believe!

And you?!

Things are rarely win-win. Things are rarely a zero-sum game either. But we lost a vice captain, and indirectly, a captain because of this nonsense. And we were dragged through the mud by the most vile player manager out there.

Cameron didn't handle this well at all - and he should have reigned in his pitbull. He didn't and he lives with the consequences.

This is the crux of what I am saying and I notice you didn't bother replying.

He effed up. We'll see him at a b+f in 10 years.

Personally, I'm not sure I'd recognize Cameron Bruce's parents, even if I did happen to see them at the game.

They'd just be a couple of elderly fans to me.

Personally, I'm not sure I'd recognize Cameron Bruce's parents, even if I did happen to see them at the game.

They'd just be a couple of elderly fans to me.

They probably wouldn't recognize you either

Not sure of the relevance of your remarks

Now it appears some Bruce apologists are trying to blame Chris Connolly's alleged character flaws for what has happened. Nothing but pious bleating for this overpaid, over preened and under performing mercenary. If Chris is at fault for driving Bruce out then that certainly elevates my opinion of Chris and the direction he is steering this club towards.

UNDER PERFORMING!!! What a laugh! Have a look at his record over 11 years. Comments like yours reveal a serious lack of understanding of footy or you refuse to look at the FACTS.

They probably wouldn't recognize you either

Not sure of the relevance of your remarks

Well, you seem to need some rather obvious things pointed out to you...

I'm alluding to being not sure how "realist" would recognize Bruce's parents.

They're not exactly regulars on the celebrity circuit.

Well, you seem to need some rather obvious things pointed out to you...

I'm alluding to being not sure how "realist" would recognize Bruce's parents.

They're not exactly regulars on the celebrity circuit.

C'mon E25 he said he saw them at China game. Not a big crowd of travelling aussies there and I am sure they socialised a bit.

Are you calling him a liar?

Pathetic effort

UNDER PERFORMING!!! What a laugh! Have a look at his record over 11 years. Comments like yours reveal a serious lack of understanding of footy or you refuse to look at the FACTS.

Under performing considering the contract he was on (Top 15-20% in the AFL) Yep i would call it that. Cameron was a solid player but no James Hird.

C'mon E25 he said he saw them at China game. Not a big crowd of travelling aussies there and I am sure they socialised a bit.

Are you calling him a liar?

Pathetic effort

Not at all.

I'm just curious as to the finer details, because I certainly wouldn't recognize them myself.

You're trying to put words in my mouth to meet your own agenda.

Pathetic?

& you think I'm the ironic one...

UNDER PERFORMING!!! What a laugh! Have a look at his record over 11 years. Comments like yours reveal a serious lack of understanding of footy or you refuse to look at the FACTS.

You were clearly a big Bruce fan.

I was pragmatic about his effect on the side.

Many overrated him & just as many underrated him.

For mine, he was a disappointment.

Under performing considering the contract he was on (Top 15-20% in the AFL) Yep i would call it that. Cameron was a solid player but no James Hird.

His pay has nothing to do with retrospectively claiming he "under performed" - it's a ridiculous argument that I, and other, have covered (possibly in this thread).

I've never been a massive "fan" of Cameron, but I'd probably argue that top 20% of the players of the last decade is about right for him anyway.

As for your last sentence, should I have comment on it or...?

You were clearly a big Bruce fan.

I was pragmatic about his effect on the side.

Many overrated him & just as many underrated him.

For mine, he was a disappointment.

Clearly you need to look at the facts too! I guess all Bruce bashers need to as well come to think of it. Yze Magic got through to you didn't he?

he was drafted at pick64 and would be amongst the biggest contributors of the last 100 or so players along with Neitz, McDonald and Green. Top10 for ten consecutive years. Underperforming? Wow

I predict he will play more than a couple of good games for Hawthorn

Clearly you need to look at the facts too! I guess all Bruce bashers need to as well come to think of it. Yze Magic got through to you didn't he?

I formed my opinion well before even being aware of demonland & I've always kept an open mind towards him.

At times in 2010 I was very pleased with his efforts.

But on the whole he was a disappointment to me.

You on the other hand, seem just as blind and immovable on the subject as YM, but to the other extreme.

Under performing considering the contract he was on (Top 15-20% in the AFL) Yep i would call it that. Cameron was a solid player but no James Hird.

If Bruce played in the '80's when Dipper & Dermie were running around, we would have been playing short everytime we played Hawthorn. Those hospital hand passes would have killed some of our players,,,, as it is they just got pinged for holding the ball or they had to rush off a disposal.

His disposal was atrocious.

His pay has nothing to do with retrospectively claiming he "under performed" - it's a ridiculous argument that I, and other, have covered (possibly in this thread).

I've never been a massive "fan" of Cameron, but I'd probably argue that top 20% of the players of the last decade is about right for him anyway.

As for your last sentence, should I have comment on it or...?

i wouldn't call it ridiculous at all. i would call it more a core problem the club has had over many years. Many good solid players getting champion wages. In the last four years Bruce was paid top coin, did he play to that level???

As for your last sentence not sure where you a heading with that.

I thought my point was quite valid.

If Bruce played in the '80's when Dipper & Dermie were running around, we would have been playing short everytime we played Hawthorn. Those hospital hand passes would have killed some of our players,,,, as it is they just got pinged for holding the ball or they had to rush off a disposal.

His disposal was atrocious.

Yep, Cameron would have lasted only minutes in the 80's, Both collarbones shattered by 1/4 time, while the umpire called play on.

he was drafted at pick64 and would be amongst the biggest contributors of the last 100 or so players along with Neitz, McDonald and Green. Top10 for ten consecutive years. Underperforming? Wow

I predict he will play more than a couple of good games for Hawthorn

Top 10 for the past 10 years, you are kidding there C & B i hope.

Yep, Cameron would have lasted only minutes in the 80's, Both collarbones shattered by 1/4 time, while the umpire called play on.

No, what I meant was he would cause our other players to get smashed.

He'd be in such a hurry to get rid of the ball, he probably wouldn't be touched, they'd want him to get the pill so he could cough it up to them. But yeah, we share the Ironical humour of it all.

No, what I meant was he would cause our other players to get smashed.

He'd be in such a hurry to get rid of the ball, he probably wouldn't be touched, they'd want him to get the pill so he could cough it up to them. But yeah, we share the Ironical humour of it all.

Aah you are thinking the Volvo theory!!!! Both ways are just as bad really!!!! B)

i wouldn't call it ridiculous at all. i would call it more a core problem the club has had over many years. Many good solid players getting champion wages. In the last four years Bruce was paid top coin, did he play to that level???

As for your last sentence not sure where you a heading with that.

I thought my point was quite valid.

To insinuate that any player who doesn't reach the level of James Hird is to be laughed at.

It is ridiculous because, when he signed his contract, he was one of out best players. As an off-shoot of that, he was one of our highest paid. As a further extension, given the nature of the salary cap season, he will then naturally be amongst the top 50 or so paid of all clubs (top 3 of each).

It becomes even more skewed when top clubs (the Geelongs etc.) need to spread the same coin amongst more players, meaning their top players are paid less. It irks me to say that a player such as Bruce has underperformed because of the money he was paid - he was paid what he was worth to the club, and a B&F and very consistent output would IMO justify that.

Now, the fact that Bruce was one of our best players of the past few years highlights why we haven't made finals in that time, but that's beside the point. To claim that a player picked up at pick 64 and played over 200 games, vice captained the club and won a B&F disappointed or underperformed is ludicrous IMO.

He got the best out of himself and his ability. To do less than this would be underperforming or disappointing.

To insinuate that any player who doesn't reach the level of James Hird is to be laughed at.

It is ridiculous because, when he signed his contract, he was one of out best players. As an off-shoot of that, he was one of our highest paid. As a further extension, given the nature of the salary cap season, he will then naturally be amongst the top 50 or so paid of all clubs (top 3 of each).

It becomes even more skewed when top clubs (the Geelongs etc.) need to spread the same coin amongst more players, meaning their top players are paid less. It irks me to say that a player such as Bruce has underperformed because of the money he was paid - he was paid what he was worth to the club, and a B&F and very consistent output would IMO justify that.

Now, the fact that Bruce was one of our best players of the past few years highlights why we haven't made finals in that time, but that's beside the point. To claim that a player picked up at pick 64 and played over 200 games, vice captained the club and won a B&F disappointed or underperformed is ludicrous IMO.

He got the best out of himself and his ability. To do less than this would be underperforming or disappointing.

Yes it is the biggest problem with the salary cap IMO having to reward good players with top coin. For clubs like Melbourne over the last 20 years it has hindered our progress in some ways.

Bruce played some good games for us i do not hesitate in saying that, In 2005 he played some rippers, but mostly i viewed him a solid player, his disposal always hurt him.

Because of the salary cap he was overpaid i agree, which is the main reason i was [censored] off he did not accept our offer for 2011.

James Hird earn't every cent he made.

He got the best out of himself and his ability.

You may be right with this statement, but that only shows up the Deficiencies the club has had over the past decade to me. Cameron was in the right place at the right time wasn't he. Soon as things didn't quite go his way he walked, for less coin.

Very Strange to me.

Maybe CC layed down a few home truths....

Top 10 for the past 10 years, you are kidding there C & B i hope.

Check with MFC records if you think C&B is kidding. Do your own research.

I'm not convinced he did get "the best out of him and his ability".

Not even close.

I'm not convinced he did get "the best out of him and his ability".

Not even close.

And you reckon I'M blind and immovable on the subject? Grab yourself a mirror!

Check with MFC records if you think C&B is kidding. Do your own research.

You set your standards to low Bobby, i have mentioned that before....