I'm not so much using the white shorts as a rationalisation for why it's OK to have white guernseys, more as a rebuttal for the argument that our uniform must only ever be red & blue, and moreso, the ridiculous assertion that wearing white is negative because it's a 'surrender colour'.

As far as my thoughts on the broader issues of wearing a clash guernsey. The key to success in our position with the AFL is to pick our battles. There are vastly more important battles to fight and win than this and creating a nuisance of ourselves over something minor like this will only serve to make life difficult for us in other, more important, areas. If we were one of only 1 or 2 Clubs in the comp being made to suffer with clash guernseys I'd agree it was a worthy battle, but the opposite is true.

As far as my thoughts on the broader issues of wearing a clash guernsey. The key to success in our position with the AFL is to pick our battles. There are vastly more important battles to fight and win than this and creating a nuisance of ourselves over something minor like this will only serve to make life difficult for us in other, more important, areas. If we were one of only 1 or 2 Clubs in the comp being made to suffer with clash guernseys I'd agree it was a worthy battle, but the opposite is true.

I fully agree there are more important issues currently for the club

I don't believe the club is too keen on the white clash strip, evidence their previous attempt at the "red" strip. I would also agree that at the moment the club is not in a good position re the AFL to make an issue of it and is focussing on many other issues. I would not be in favour of pressuring the club at this time in this matter (unless they requested input).

I do believe in the future that the time may come when this can be better discussed at official levels

Having said that, I see nothing wrong with supporters expressing their wishes and "keeping the fires burning"

In the short term I agree with you (I think it was you?) that we should press for a better "design" for next years predominately white clash strip (as per AFL "directions"). There is already another thread here on just that issue. This however does not mean that I accept the current situation as a fait-accompli.

Is that a bit clearer?

Except when it's displayed on shorts. Which is naturally perfectly fine and is in no way an entirely illogical exception being allowed in a very shallow argument.

This thread & or discussion was never about white shorts, you added that one ID. White shorts signified the away team and still do in certain games. No problem there.

This is about the bastardisation & diluting of our jumper for no consistant reason. I will keep bringing it up because last weekends fixture strengthened my viewpoint quite a lot.

This thread & or discussion was never about white shorts, you added that one ID. White shorts signified the away team and still do in certain games. No problem there.

This is about the bastardisation & diluting of our jumper for no consistant reason. I will keep bringing it up because last weekends fixture strengthened my viewpoint quite a lot.

It was you who presented the argument that white was the 'colour of surrender' and that is why we shouldn't wear it on a guernsey. To now claim that the very same point doesn't extend immediately below the guernsey to the shorts is laughable and clearly illustrates the absurdity of your argument.

It was you who presented the argument that white was the 'colour of surrender' and that is why we shouldn't wear it on a guernsey. To now claim that the very same point doesn't extend immediately below the guernsey to the shorts is laughable and clearly illustrates the absurdity of your argument.

Well, like I said previously, how about blue for home and red for away shorts? Even better.

But your shorts obsession is drawing a long bow . . . . but keep plugging away

White shorts signifies that we are the away team.

White jumper also signifies that we are the away team.

It has a nice symmetry to it.

White shorts signifies that we are the away team.

White jumper also signifies that we are the away team.

It has a nice symmetry to it.

Lots of things have "a nice symmetry" to them Bob, like doughnuts

But they don't say "the team of the red and the blue" to me

Well, like I said previously, how about blue for home and red for away shorts? Even better.

But your shorts obsession is drawing a long bow . . . . but keep plugging away

Not half as long as the bow being drawn on white guernseys standing for "surrender".

Not half as long as the bow being drawn on white guernseys standing for "surrender".

Well maybe both you and WYL could ease back the strings a little on the shorts/surrender hyperbole

Lets just say that white, psychologically is not a "strong" or "aggressive" colour. Is that more acceptable?

It was you who presented the argument that white was the 'colour of surrender' and that is why we shouldn't wear it on a guernsey. To now claim that the very same point doesn't extend immediately below the guernsey to the shorts is laughable and clearly illustrates the absurdity of your argument.

The EPL did a very thorough study on colours a few years back. I suggest you read it. White was the most passive shade by far...& there is no reason to have it on our jumper as we are the Red & Blue. Where is my arguement absurd??

The AFL stance is absurd.

No, you're a towel!

I'd like to read that. Can you point me to it?

I'd like to read that. Can you point me to it?

I found it through wikipedia,after a friend had told me of it about 18 months ago..Took a while to find it, but EPL Colours was where i started.

The EPL did a very thorough study on colours a few years back. I suggest you read it. White was the most passive shade by far...& there is no reason to have it on our jumper as we are the Red & Blue. Where is my arguement absurd??

The AFL stance is absurd.

Your argument is absurd because you are suggesting that white is only a sign of a surrender if it appears on the guernsey, but not on the shorts. Is white no longer passive if worn below the waist????

Your argument is absurd because you are suggesting that white is only a sign of a surrender if it appears on the guernsey, but not on the shorts. Is white no longer passive if worn below the waist????

Take a look at your own avatar I.D. I can't believe you are quite willing to sacrifice that Jumper for a no name white jumper that looks like any other team from a distance.

I am actually quite shocked as to how many posters on Demonland are prepared to lose the jumper for 30-40% of our games because the AFL says so.

You are telling me i am misgiuded, just because i do not want the MFC to lose it's jumper, and ultimately a large part of it's History & identity.

Uh, no, that's not at all what you are arguing WYL.

There's no prospect of MFC losing their colours.

If that were the issue it wouldn't matter what colour the alternative strip was, merely that there was one.

Uh, no, that's not at all what you are arguing WYL.

There's no prospect of MFC losing their colours.

If that were the issue it wouldn't matter what colour the alternative strip was, merely that there was one.

I know what i am argueing thankyou Mr Smart Arse-I trust this AFL with nothing.

Each year rule changes, new Jumper combinations, slowly creeping in

Don't tell me what i am thinking about 25, i will not cop that one bit.

I know what i am argueing thankyou Mr Smart Arse-I trust this AFL with nothing.

Each year rule changes, new Jumper combinations, slowly creeping in

Don't tell me what i am thinking about 25, i will not cop that one bit.

Each year higher attendances, higher TV ratings, higher membership numbers, greater revenues.

Yup. The AFL sure is messing everything up lately...

It's selective history, WYL.

I can't embrace the Invincible Whites even though we won the inaugral Victorian Premiership back when time began in white, because why?

It's not what we are about now? Post 'Checkers' Hughes (played for Richmond by the way - I know, yuck...)?

It's a non-colour/meaningless colour/colour of surrender (wouldn't say that in Madrid just quietly)?

We only played in those colours for a decade or so? (Important effing decade.)

I love the jumper and I would prefer not changing a thing, but we have to change the jumper in certain games I think you will agree. I would like the blasphemy have some meaning rather than have some ugly, meaningless red jumper with white shorts, just because it is still red and blue. Inverted colours? Where is that in our history? When were we called the blue legs?

What I am saying is that you can't hold up history as a cause when you don't embrace all of your history.

Each year higher attendances, higher TV ratings, higher membership numbers, greater revenues.

Yup. The AFL sure is messing everything up lately...

Do you work for the AFL? If not you certainly should.

I don't Barrack for the AFL I Barrack for the Melbourne Footy Club. If 2 competeing clubs deem between themselves that a clash is obvious, then a vote should be given to the members...as is the Bummers Constitution. The AFL should not have any say over the Club Colours in any game we play.

A little history about the "Invincible Whites" nickname

Apologies to those who already know this MFC history

In the 1860s (the early years of football) the MFC used to wear white uniforms; white tops, white knickerbockers and white stockings.

But, so did most of the other teams then. This was probably due to the tradition that cricketers, tennis players etc also wore all white, and maybe because of the easy availability of white (or cream) material and certain off-the-shelf clothing in those days.

To distinguish themselves from each other, teams wore colored caps (as in cricket). The MFC wore dark blue.

In those early years the MFC ran up such a string of victories that the press nicknamed them the "Invincible Whites" as distinct from the other "Whites". The club did not originate this nickname.

Later, a supporter (1872) brought back red stockings from England and the club officially adopted red and blue as the club colours. Now with the blue cap and red stockings the club was nicknamed the Fuschias (after the colours of the flower), or the Redlegs, both of which were used until 1933 when coach "Checker" Hughes exhorted his players to "play like demons" and thereafter the nickname "Demons" stuck.

Some time after the 1860s (not sure exactly when, but I think in the 1870s) the jumper became all blue with a central red vertical stripe and red socks.

Similarly other "white" teams started developing coloured jumpers.

So, the "white" in the "Invincible Whites" nickname was not unique to the MFC but rather it was the "Invincibles" tag that was unique to the MFC, comparing it to the other "white" teams.

Make what you want of this . . . . . .

I'm afraid it would appear all the maintained rage is going nowhere fast. Cam Schwab tweeted earlier that the new clash guernsey being worked on will be predominantly white. He adds that it will have a more heritage feel about it though, which I am looking forward to. Best guess would have to be something involving the interlinked MFC logo.

I'm afraid it would appear all the maintained rage is going nowhere fast. Cam Schwab tweeted earlier that the new clash guernsey being worked on will be predominantly white. He adds that it will have a more heritage feel about it though, which I am looking forward to. Best guess would have to be something involving the interlinked MFC logo.

For those "maintaining the rage" this was perfectly expected for next year/short term

This changes nothing

Rome wasn't built in a day

I'm afraid it would appear all the maintained rage is going nowhere fast. Cam Schwab tweeted earlier that the new clash guernsey being worked on will be predominantly white. He adds that it will have a more heritage feel about it though, which I am looking forward to. Best guess would have to be something involving the interlinked MFC logo.

Still doesn't change my position at all. I don't expect to win this fight in the short term. The AFL still hold the upper hand at this stage.

We need to win games in september-including flags before we can totally stand alone. Build income streams outside the club that can be sustained and grown.

This has nothing to do with "The Invincible Whites" It has to do with the Modern standardized "white" strips the AFL force upon us.

Bask in the glory if you wish ID-I will always speak of the Red & Blue only.

"Bask in the glory ?"...ugh.