With all the vitriole and spite running around this forum at the moment how about we all take a breath and let a little sanity prevail.

Feel free to vent your anger on me but how about we stop the wild meaningless rants and look at what happened. It is not all doom and gloom.

Yes Melbourne were terrible today- Agreed. But they also played a team who executed their own game perfectly.

Have a think for a minute about the opposition. They have been copping it for weeks, from fans, press, coaches, everyone. They have players retiring. They were hurt and had two weeks to train for and prepare for a revenge game. That is not the Adelaide that has been playing the first 11 weeks of the season. That was a different team. They were up and about against a young, inexperienced team that was coming off a reasonable performance the previous round.

I'm not making excuses. Football at AFL level is 75% mental. It is just that the Crows were up mentally today more than the Demons.

Like the Pies were over the Swans. Like the Saints were over the Cats. Like the Tigers were over Brisbane.

Sides are learning about how Melbourne play and developing ways to stop them. Melbourne are now learning what it is like to have an opposition team actually study their game style to shut it down rather than just treating them with disdain like the last few years. They now need to learn how to work through that.

They are learning.

Our defence which has been so good all year was down today. Grimes, Warnock, MacDonald, Rivers, Bartram all struggled or turned ot over far too much. That started the rot. The midfield likewise. We got smashed with inside 50's. That starts with the backline and midfielders moving and delivering the ball with speed and purpose into the forward 50. That leaves a forward line that is very green and injury ravaged (see Sylvia, Jurrah, Petterd) trying to score from very limited opportunities. We can't kick goals if we can't get the ball in the forward 50.

If you have a look at the stats, we actually had a good conversion rate when the ball got inside 50. The simple fact is that it didn't get in there enough.

There will be changes to the team this week. Agreed. However these changes must be to keep developing and building our team. Not taking backward steps and putting in blokes like PJ as some posters have mentioned. Many of you would blame Watts if the world blew up tomorrow. It would pay for many to learn patience. He will take time whether you like it or not. He needs to keep playing AFL to keep learning. The same goes for many other youngsters. They will be up and down. They will take time.

Our game style is one that requires everyone to be on their game and play their role. WE have looked good when everybody is up and running and people were comparing it to the way the cats play. A nice compliment but with a young raw team who aren't in the same skill level or size of the cats, when a few are off the whole team falls down. Unfortunately this will happen throughout this year and probably next.

If many of you had your way we would change coaches 6 times a year. There would be 12 changes to the team every week. We'd have a new game plan every 4 weeks. Stop being a bandwagon jumper and take a minute to understand how the footy department are trying to build a team and game style and confidence in youngsters that if they have a couple of bad games they won't be shown the door, they will be shown some faith.

Yes Richmond have shown some form. Guess what, we aren't Richmond. Who cares about Richmond. They were [censored] for 9 weeks and have won a few games recently. They will drop off again. It's the nature of the beast. Melbourne have still won more games and been competitive in more games against better opposition. Deal with it.

Finally, many of you write on here about pushing for finals and how we should be up there.

Get realistic. You couldn't possibly have believed that at the start of the year and you need to just pull back a minute. The goal for the majority was 8 wins for the year. That would be a satisfactory improvement. Guess what- we are still on track for that. Don't be unrealistic in your expectations and you will then learn to look past the ladder position and at the bigger picture.

I know many of you will smash me for this and i don't really care.

With all the vitriole and spite running around this forum at the moment how about we all take a breath and let a little sanity prevail.

Feel free to vent your anger on me but how about we stop the wild meaningless rants and look at what happened. It is not all doom and gloom.

Yes Melbourne were terrible today- Agreed. But they also played a team who executed their own game perfectly.

Have a think for a minute about the opposition. They have been copping it for weeks, from fans, press, coaches, everyone. They have players retiring. They were hurt and had two weeks to train for and prepare for a revenge game. That is not the Adelaide that has been playing the first 11 weeks of the season. That was a different team. They were up and about against a young, inexperienced team that was coming off a reasonable performance the previous round.

I'm not making excuses. Football at AFL level is 75% mental. It is just that the Crows were up mentally today more than the Demons.

Like the Pies were over the Swans. Like the Saints were over the Cats. Like the Tigers were over Brisbane.

Sides are learning about how Melbourne play and developing ways to stop them. Melbourne are now learning what it is like to have an opposition team actually study their game style to shut it down rather than just treating them with disdain like the last few years. They now need to learn how to work through that.

They are learning.

Our defence which has been so good all year was down today. Grimes, Warnock, MacDonald, Rivers, Bartram all struggled or turned ot over far too much. That started the rot. The midfield likewise. We got smashed with inside 50's. That starts with the backline and midfielders moving and delivering the ball with speed and purpose into the forward 50. That leaves a forward line that is very green and injury ravaged (see Sylvia, Jurrah, Petterd) trying to score from very limited opportunities. We can't kick goals if we can't get the ball in the forward 50.

If you have a look at the stats, we actually had a good conversion rate when the ball got inside 50. The simple fact is that it didn't get in there enough.

There will be changes to the team this week. Agreed. However these changes must be to keep developing and building our team. Not taking backward steps and putting in blokes like PJ as some posters have mentioned. Many of you would blame Watts if the world blew up tomorrow. It would pay for many to learn patience. He will take time whether you like it or not. He needs to keep playing AFL to keep learning. The same goes for many other youngsters. They will be up and down. They will take time.

Our game style is one that requires everyone to be on their game and play their role. WE have looked good when everybody is up and running and people were comparing it to the way the cats play. A nice compliment but with a young raw team who aren't in the same skill level or size of the cats, when a few are off the whole team falls down. Unfortunately this will happen throughout this year and probably next.

If many of you had your way we would change coaches 6 times a year. There would be 12 changes to the team every week. We'd have a new game plan every 4 weeks. Stop being a bandwagon jumper and take a minute to understand how the footy department are trying to build a team and game style and confidence in youngsters that if they have a couple of bad games they won't be shown the door, they will be shown some faith.

Yes Richmond have shown some form. Guess what, we aren't Richmond. Who cares about Richmond. They were [censored] for 9 weeks and have won a few games recently. They will drop off again. It's the nature of the beast. Melbourne have still won more games and been competitive in more games against better opposition. Deal with it.

Finally, many of you write on here about pushing for finals and how we should be up there.

Get realistic. You couldn't possibly have believed that at the start of the year and you need to just pull back a minute. The goal for the majority was 8 wins for the year. That would be a satisfactory improvement. Guess what- we are still on track for that. Don't be unrealistic in your expectations and you will then learn to look past the ladder position and at the bigger picture.

I know many of you will smash me for this and i don't really care.

Fair enough for the most part and some decent points made. I for one was certainly not expecting finals, not even close. What I was expecting or hoping was that our development would see us at least move out of the bottom 4 this year and now I am not so certain. Yes, had we won a few tight games that would likely be a forgone conclusion, but it is games against teams at our supposed level the disappointment lies for me.

Your point in bold above I can't agree. Adelaide did execute perfectly but only because they were able to assert far too much authority on the game far too early without anywhere enough resistance. This has been far too common a theme. It is the reason we have lost close ones and it is the reason we have not even been in games against teams at our level and been left to make brief in roads to unassailable margins (Nth, Carl, Adel).

I am patient, I am understanding of where we are at and the development required.

Is it too much to simply ask for a full on crack for four quarters? I can live with that.

I know many of you will smash me for this and i don't really care.

Nah i agree with you.

we are a young team that relys on our young guns. We're lacking senior/leaders and definitely lacking senior players of real quality so i was fully expecting a year of up and down.

capable of pushing top 4 teams but also capable of having bad patchs as our youngsters cool off throughout the season.

We were bad and we need to be accountable for that but it is funny to see posters go into panic stations and throw everything out of the water and say siht like we're going backwards, we're going nowhere. hahahahha.

Good post. There are a lot of posters on D'Land that should read this.

It was our first 'away' game out of Victoria this year.

But,over 46 years,how often should we put up with it?We deserve better.

If it wasn't for Jim,I would have given up on MFC.

that whole OP should be copied and pasted every time we lose badly like today... sensible. And that will happen several times over the next 1 1/2 years.

But,over 46 years,how often should we put up with it?We deserve better.

If it wasn't for Jim,I would have given up on MFC.

I've been a supporter for a couple more than 46 years and have seen all the ups and downs.

Today was one of the downs.

If the boys(after all, it is those "boys", who will get us over the line, in a couple of years - when we win a flag, or two) and the coaching staff learn from today's less than satisfactory performance, it will have been yet another "lesson learnt".

I also did not expect, we could even dream of finals this year.

And don't forget as was said earlier, 8 wins is still well within our grasp - but of course we need to do better the get those 8 wins.

That's obvious.

But,what good is served, by struggling to finish 8th and going out in week 1, to a much better side by 50-60 points?

This is not our "do it for Robbie" year.

We don't need that "lesson".

When we are ready to play finals, the world will know it.

Well said....except for the last line, little bit cliche.

"Big picutre" blah blah "Ignore ladder position" blah blah "Young team" blah blah...

Why shouldn't we be cut after a very winnable game? Forget all the "competitive" cliches, today is what matters in football, I'm sick of the lack of passion in our supporter base. We have every right to be angry because quite simply our team played with no heart today. Yes we'll get over it, yes we'll improve, yes we have a lot of young players, but losing games should sting. For far too long we have been bland and unemotional due to our expectations being lowered over a gradual period of time, and I refuse to give up my impetuousness and become another "oh well" supporter.

I don't mean this rant to sound like I'm having a go at a fellow supporter, we're all entitled to feel differently, but I want to have a fire in my belly.

Let's not take the emotion out, the ups and downs are what make the game exciting.

So how about "Passion and Patience"?

"Big picutre" blah blah "Ignore ladder position" blah blah "Young team" blah blah...

Why shouldn't we be cut after a very winnable game? Forget all the "competitive" cliches, today is what matters in football, I'm sick of the lack of passion in our supporter base. We have every right to be angry because quite simply our team played with no heart today. Yes we'll get over it, yes we'll improve, yes we have a lot of young players, but losing games should sting. For far too long we have been bland and unemotional due to our expectations being lowered over a gradual period of time, and I refuse to give up my impetuousness and become another "oh well" supporter.

I don't mean this rant to sound like I'm having a go at a fellow supporter, we're all entitled to feel differently, but I want to have a fire in my belly.

Let's not take the emotion out, the ups and downs are what make the game exciting.

So how about "Passion and Patience"?

Calm down.

As I said, I've been following for nearly 50 years. I was there during the "golden period", I have been through the great teams put together during the Northy years and the better part of the Danahier years. I have also suffered many, many years in the wilderness.

And, although this current team is frustrating the hell out of me (and obviously you too), there is something different about them.

If I am saying the same things, this time next year, I will be the first to agree with you.

But, somehow, I don't think I will...

Edited June 27, 201015 yr by BangkokDemon

Calm down.

As I said, I've been following for nearly 50 years. I was there during the "golden period", I have been through the great teams put together during the Northy years and the better part of the Danahier years. I have also suffered many, many years in the wilderness.

And, although this current team is frustrating the hell out of me (and obviously you too), there is something different about them.

If I am saying the same things, this time next year, I will be the first to agree with you.

But, somehow, I don't think I will...

I'm sorry if it seemed like that rant was aimed at you Banger, wasn't meaning it to come across that way. Simply expressing my frustration with all the "big picture" talk, TODAY is the picture, NOW is the time! I just feel like the players are let off and have no urgency at times because of this attitude, and I'm worried that our past attitude of "relax, it'll all fall into place with the big picture" is stopping us from focusing on what is happening right now.

I'm not frustrated by our team or coach, I think both have skill available to them, but it's the lack of fire that I bemoan. The higher we aim the higher we can go, so why lower our sights?

The players (and maybe the coach) just seem to need t be instilled with the idea that it's not just going to automatically happen for them.

I've been a supporter for a couple more than 46 years and have seen all the ups and downs.

Today was one of the downs.

If the boys(after all, it is those "boys", who will get us over the line, in a couple of years - when we win a flag, or two) and the coaching staff learn from today's less than satisfactory performance, it will have been yet another "lesson learnt".

I also did not expect, we could even dream of finals this year.

And don't forget as was said earlier, 8 wins is still well within our grasp - but of course we need to do better the get those 8 wins.

That's obvious.

But,what good is served, by struggling to finish 8th and going out in week 1, to a much better side by 50-60 points?

This is not our "do it for Robbie" year.

We don't need that "lesson".

When we are ready to play finals, the world will know it.

Sorry,have heard every rendition,It just doesn't wash any more.Have watched this football club for a while.There is no greater time or inspiration to play for the MFC,as now.

Yet its a chore,why?

I don't care if we loose every round,as long as we have a [censored] go

Edited June 28, 201015 yr by High Tower
Unnecessary language.

I'm sorry if it seemed like that rant was aimed at you Banger, wasn't meaning it to come across that way. Simply expressing my frustration with all the "big picture" talk, TODAY is the picture, NOW is the time! I just feel like the players are let off and have no urgency at times because of this attitude, and I'm worried that our past attitude of "relax, it'll all fall into place with the big picture" is stopping us from focusing on what is happening right now.

I'm not frustrated by our team or coach, I think both have skill available to them, but it's the lack of fire that I bemoan. The higher we aim the higher we can go, so why lower our sights?

The players (and maybe the coach) just seem to need t be instilled with the idea that it's not just going to automatically happen for them.

Hey, Stuie, I'm a big boy, I didn't take it personally.

I don't think the players have been "let off" at all, after today's performance - certainly not if you read what DB said about the way they played - living in Thailand and thanks to the "wonderful" Telstra/Big Pond money grab, I can't see the press conference on line.

This game was winnable. We probably have 3, maybe 4, should be winnable games, for the rest of the year.

But you never know, as we seem to play well against the top sides, maybe there's another "surprise" win - maybe even next week !

If the boys don't step up and show they've learnt from the previous 13 games this year, I will be starting to think "here we go again".

But, just compare where we are now, to the season before Geelong became the benchmark. Or, even StKilda before Ross Lyon took them on.

I'm sure all their fans were wondering, when their turn would come.

So Stuie, get mad, get frustrated (I was after today), but don't, I repeat, don't give up hope on these boys.

They are something special - but there's a long, long way to go...we were a long way down.

Blah, blah, blah

Supporters, in the main, want their team to have a crack. They didn't and they deserve the flogging they're getting.

Before I say what I think the problem really is, I'm sick and tired of the "learning" and "young team" excuses. It's been going on for years now and when we match up against other teams I think you'll find that we aren't that much younger or inexperienced than them. How come other teams can win and be competitive on a regular basis and we can't? The bottom team in the comp can even win over there (yeah, yeah, rubbish conditions but they still won...)

The problem however is the game plan. Go and watch the game again - how many times did we go forward to either a one on two, a one on three or not have anyone to kick to at all? It doesn't work. I'm certain that people have analysed our game plan on here a million times over but I think that's what the problem is - we have shown that we have the talent to be competitive, yet our game plan doesn't stack up against most teams. If our game plan really worked and we were really going places then we would have, at the very least, beaten North and the Eagles over here and probably beaten Adelaide too. But we didn't. We over use it, constantly drop a man back when we should go one on one, have a shocking defense to the "counter attack" and an out manned forward line.

Let's face facts - 1 win and a draw in the last 8 games is poor. Very poor. If our game plan worked then we wouldn't be playing like that. I want to support Bailey SO BADLY... yet every time I feel like I can he let's you down. All we have is a Plan A - there is no Plan B or C when things don't work. We either get lucky or get beaten. You can't deny that it's a little worrying.

Before I say what I think the problem really is, I'm sick and tired of the "learning" and "young team" excuses. It's been going on for years now and when we match up against other teams I think you'll find that we aren't that much younger or inexperienced than them. How come other teams can win and be competitive on a regular basis and we can't? The bottom team in the comp can even win over there (yeah, yeah, rubbish conditions but they still won...)

The problem however is the game plan. Go and watch the game again - how many times did we go forward to either a one on two, a one on three or not have anyone to kick to at all? It doesn't work. I'm certain that people have analysed our game plan on here a million times over but I think that's what the problem is - we have shown that we have the talent to be competitive, yet our game plan doesn't stack up against most teams. If our game plan really worked and we were really going places then we would have, at the very least, beaten North and the Eagles over here and probably beaten Adelaide too. But we didn't. We over use it, constantly drop a man back when we should go one on one, have a shocking defense to the "counter attack" and an out manned forward line.

Let's face facts - 1 win and a draw in the last 8 games is poor. Very poor. If our game plan worked then we wouldn't be playing like that. I want to support Bailey SO BADLY... yet every time I feel like I can he let's you down. All we have is a Plan A - there is no Plan B or C when things don't work. We either get lucky or get beaten. You can't deny that it's a little worrying.

Well "Wise blood" I think you have my feelings down perfect.

I could not have said it better.

I can understand a bad performance against Geelong or St kilda but Adelaide! it beggars belief.

In 64 I was 15 years old and there has been a lot of thin and not much Thick in the 46 years since. After days like yesterday

I wonder will I live long enough to see us become a top 4 side.

I am so desperate I would be happy to win 10 games next year but alas I see more misery ahead.

What gets me is that we should be past the point where we have uncompetitive performances like that. I didn't expect us to win yesterday because we're an inconsistent young team and we were interstate. But I certainly expected a better performance. By now we know we are good enough at our best to match it with even top 4 teams, so seeing games where we struggle from start to finish, and against teams like Adelaide who aren't tracking much better than we are, is annoying.

What gets me is that we should be past the point where we have uncompetitive performances like that. I didn't expect us to win yesterday because we're an inconsistent young team and we were interstate. But I certainly expected a better performance. By now we know we are good enough at our best to match it with even top 4 teams, so seeing games where we struggle from start to finish, and against teams like Adelaide who aren't tracking much better than we are, is annoying.

Yes, that's a good message, which must get through from yesterday's drubbing.

I think many of us realize this is a "rebuild" year and there will be ups and downs.

We can all be patient, for only so long.

But, this far into the season, they should have learnt what is "acceptable" and what is not - this lesson it seems, has still not been learnt.

Time is running out.

Mark Stevens - Opportunity lost

OK, we are young, inexperienced and have a lack of mature bodies, but how long do we accept such excuses for insipid performances, where there is no urgency and where there is a lack of intensity at the contest. I can accept the losses as easily as I can rejoice in the victories, but I will never accept a lack of commitment.

"Big picutre" blah blah "Ignore ladder position" blah blah "Young team" blah blah...

Why shouldn't we be cut after a very winnable game? Forget all the "competitive" cliches, today is what matters in football, I'm sick of the lack of passion in our supporter base. We have every right to be angry because quite simply our team played with no heart today. Yes we'll get over it, yes we'll improve, yes we have a lot of young players, but losing games should sting. For far too long we have been bland and unemotional due to our expectations being lowered over a gradual period of time, and I refuse to give up my impetuousness and become another "oh well" supporter.

I don't mean this rant to sound like I'm having a go at a fellow supporter, we're all entitled to feel differently, but I want to have a fire in my belly.

Let's not take the emotion out, the ups and downs are what make the game exciting.

So how about "Passion and Patience"?

I'm all for emotion and i'm glad you are too. But don't let emotion cloud logic and clear thinking. People let emotion cloud their judgement when they started talking finals etc this year. They also let emotion cloud their judgement on what they expect from young players/team.

Yes i want to see passion, desperation, guts and determination in every game. Those mental things anyone can do. I was just trying to get the point across that people need to be realistic about this team and where they are at the moment.

Supporters, in the main, want their team to have a crack. They didn't and they deserve the flogging they're getting.

See above.

Mark Stevens - Opportunity lost

OK, we are young, inexperienced and have a lack of mature bodies, but how long do we accept such excuses for insipid performances, where there is no urgency and where there is a lack of intensity at the contest. I can accept the losses as easily as I can rejoice in the victories, but I will never accept a lack of commitment.

Yep. Nor should you.