With no forward why did Bailey play SPencer and Dunn over MArtin, Newton and Hughes? Because he has little idea!

Clearly our forwardline needs to be restructured. Martin isn't the answer long term but at this stage he's worth a shot, he definitely wouldn't have made it worse today.

Watching the game on Tv. It's bad. It's Sad.

We have no spark. We are on a 3 second time delay. Hawthorn are a team. They know where to go and where there team mates are going to be. We do not. We are not a team. We don't gel, we can't play any sort of fast counter offence because of this fact. It's like nobody knows anyone out there. We play like a bunch of footy players all just thrown onto a footy field and told to play. Period.

I don't know if this is the players making or the coaches. If we are not teaching the right things at training or playing players out of position (will continue to have a bugabear about our forward line) bailey needs to be looked at. If the players aren't in the right mindset gametime, they need to be looked at.

Bailey has been trying to explain this to people like yoou all preseason. The reason it's like nobody knows each o0ther out there is because thats the reality of the situation. We don't really have a team yet, just a collection of footballers. They need to get games together. But hey why listen to the coaches when you can bag them from the sidelines.

The only positive i can take out of the game was Scully and Trengove. Boy are they going to be great players once they get stronger. Easily our best players. Strauss was also ok although he had some massive clangers.

As for everyone else it was same old same old. Lots of downhill skiers and guys with huge limitations eg. Bates lack of mobility and jones' lack of footy smarts.

Grimes, McKenzie?

Two players this team can not afford to be without - Sylvia and Jurrah.

We were never a chance without them.

We don't really have a team yet, just a collection of footballers. They need to get games together. But hey why listen to the coaches when you can bag them from the sidelines.

A voice of reason.

I just don't know what people were expecting.We just don't have the players or the experience, and jumping up and down about it and demanding action and looking for who to blame is just not going to help one iota.

I for one am looking forward to next week.

B

One of the things constantly on my mind today - Jamar should go forward. He's the best we've got because he has the power to mark over the game's best defenders and he can kick straight, unlike some people. (cough cough, MILLER AND NEWTON, cough cough)

I think Grimes and McKenzie were also positives today. Grimes rarely made mistakes and was our best rebounder out of the defensive 50. McKenzie is a real workhorse too. 11 tackles and four free kicks speaks for itself.

Grimes, McKenzie?

Yeah add mckenzie to that, but no i thoght Grimes was disappointing in the first half when it matters most. Was unseen.

Pretty much as expected really, but there were glimpses from a few that showed that a future is there. It's just going to take a while.

Trengove and Scully are going to be seriously good. The amount of work Scully puts in to get to contests is brilliant. Not the most skilled by foot, but wont matter too much given he'll get himself free so many times through his work rate. And Trengove is going to be pure class.

Along with Grimes, there's three players from today who are going to be very good. We haven't been able to say that for a while.

Liked Strauss too. He'll prove excellent value once there's a better side around him. And so too will Bennell when he gets confidence to back himself.

We're going to have plenty of days like today for a while yet, but if we can consistently have the 6-8 best young kids we have out on the park (which didn't happen today) then the length of time it takes before we stop dishing up crap like today will be greatly reduced.

What I can't understand is why Bailey addresses the players before the match, and harps on and on about "being competitive". No. How about we go out there and WIN!! They were an undermanned side that finished 9th last season. Bugger competitive, let's win the bloody thing!

Drumming into the players that they need to aspire towards being competitive?? No wonder we see the performances like we saw today.

Very little to get excited by today. I thought that towards the end of last season we were definately showing signs of improvement, but we seem to have regressed and are playing like we did in 2008 at the moment. Another belting next week looks very likely against the filth. All we can hope for is some improvement during the season and try to avoid a third succesive wooden spoon as we have never won three spoons in a row before. Bring back the Rev at least he got us into sox finals in 10 years in a Granny.

Well I just wanted to say well done to Junior Mac, who I thought was superb today. His leadership was simply outstanding and he chased, tackled and harrassed all day and showed tremendous leadership in the face of adversity. Other than that, the youngsters got a game into them.

Clearly our forwardline needs to be restructured. Martin isn't the answer long term but at this stage he's worth a shot, he definitely wouldn't have made it worse today.

Not the answer long-term? I think most people here look to short term with him. The best thing to do with Stef Martin is compare him to O'Hailpin of Carlton. He's a great athlete who has no background in the game. O'Hailpin has been at Carlton twice as long as we've had Martin and he still can't kick, but his ability to contest and take marks is beginning to make a real difference for them. Martin will probably take a similar amount of time, but with good coaching and a lot of work, he'll be a bloody good player for us when we're going for the premiership in five years or so.

Random thoughts on the game today:

1) 'Quarters won' (Bailey's favourite stat) is absolutely useless for judging our improvement. We won the last quarter today and it meant ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The Hawks had switched off completely, the crowd had gone to sleep, and we got some junk time goals. Woo frickin' hoo. A more incisive stat would be 'Quarters won while the game was still up for grabs'.

2) We are lazy. For all Bailey's talk of 'competitiveness', he hasn't managed to instil any kind of work ethic into our players. When a guy looks up and sees nobody to kick to, it's because 17 other guys haven't been busting their gut trying to create an option. Case in point: Melbourne kicks blindly into their forward 50, and the Hawks mop it up. Looking up, there's a guy charging down to the vacant half-back flank, and he floats an easy kick into that space, which the player gobbles up. Situation reversed: Melbourne mops up a poor Hawks kick forward, look up and see ... nobody.

I will exempt Scully and Trengove from this criticism. The number of times today that I looked down onto the field (the top deck is great for noticing this kind of thing) and saw 15 static Dees and two hard-working first-gamers trying to create space and become options for the ball carrier was depressing. Those two need to teach the so-called senior players just what modern footy is all about.

Running hard for each other would also help with the 'over-handballing' problem. They've obviously been instructed to play on as much as possible --- but dishing a handball to a bloke a metre away, who is flat-footed, and who is being guarded by Campbell 'God I Hate Him So Much' Brown, is a recipe for disaster. Only dish off that handball to a guy running past at speed! For this to work, we need guys to actually BE running past at speed. Run for each other, Melbourne players, and we'll look a lot better (not good, that'll be a while, but better. Have a look at the first 3 quarters of Essendon v Geelong and study the Bombers style of play).

3) Brad Green is awesome. I hope his effort today is highlighted during the week, and some of the other so-called leaders have a good hard look at themselves.

End rant. Probably more to follow when I think of it.

Cheers, B.

Running hard for each other would also help with the 'over-handballing' problem. They've obviously been instructed to play on as much as possible --- but dishing a handball to a bloke a metre away, who is flat-footed, and who is being guarded by Campbell 'God I Hate Him So Much' Brown, is a recipe for disaster. Only dish off that handball to a guy running past at speed! For this to work, we need guys to actually BE running past at speed. R

Agree 100%. Look at how the Dogs do it. Every mark in the back half, there is a guy sprinting past at about a 45 degree angle for the handball. It looks great and clearly works.

Agree 100%. Look at how the Dogs do it. Every mark in the back half, there is a guy sprinting past at about a 45 degree angle for the handball. It looks great and clearly works.

Excatly right, we have players who don't demand the responsibility of carrying the footy.

I love this team but today was as bad as i have seen. Now where did i put those razorblades

Random thoughts on the game today:

....

2) We are lazy. For all Bailey's talk of 'competitiveness', he hasn't managed to instil any kind of work ethic into our players. When a guy looks up and sees nobody to kick to, it's because 17 other guys haven't been busting their gut trying to create an option.

....

Running hard for each other would also help with the 'over-handballing' problem. They've obviously been instructed to play on as much as possible --- but dishing a handball to a bloke a metre away, who is flat-footed, and who is being guarded by Campbell 'God I Hate Him So Much' Brown, is a recipe for disaster. Only dish off that handball to a guy running past at speed! For this to work, we need guys to actually BE running past at speed. Run for each other, Melbourne players, and we'll look a lot better (not good, that'll be a while, but better. Have a look at the first 3 quarters of Essendon v Geelong and study the Bombers style of play).

3) Brad Green is awesome.

Spot on! They are lazy, no doubt about it on what we saw today and no excuse for it either. They get to choose whether to be lazy or put in effort. Today so many chose "lazy".

Plus if they had a football brain and used it, many of those handballs wouldn't have happened. Which is either a fault of the coaching (told to do it all the time, without thinking of any alternative option) or they lack the football smarts (in which case the coaches will be despairing just like all of us).

Davey was good in patches too, somerthing not quite right about him. But compared to many of the others, he's Mr Dependable.

Well I just wanted to say well done to Junior Mac, who I thought was superb today. His leadership was simply outstanding and he chased, tackled and harrassed all day and showed tremendous leadership in the face of adversity. Other than that, the youngsters got a game into them.

Agree completely!

Junior was great, and I continue to marvel at his commitment and effort.......he is a great leader and terific role model for the young guys!