Ho Chi Dee

You found Lyon's comments what now? As for the main question, what Nasher said. You've no idea what Mahoney is like as a coach and there is no obvious correlation between being a great key forward and being able to coach. All your OP does is display a lack of patience.

I'm slightly alarmed it took you 3 minutes to read that! Not much substance there.

What's more to the point is the excellent conversion rate of 'supporters' to members we obtain. I remember reading recently that we have the best ratio on this. It's a point I think is worth trumpeting given the amount of carp Melbourne people are given for 'not turning up' or 'being counted'. So credit taking for those who are due, sure - but some of that should be going to us as a group.

Yes, I thought it was all pretty ordinary. There were numerous suggestions of what was wrong and none of it unsubstantiated, but much of it passed off as fact. I've had enough of the speculation as well.

Of all the days for the australian network channel to fail here in Saigon, it was of course tonight. So was relying on the radio call, but it sounds odd. If the goal umpire was so sure it's strange that he'd let himself be talked out of it. How far from the goal line were the 'touches'? My original point though still stands, if we made more of just a couple of the numerous chances we blew it'd wouldn't have mattered what the umpires screwed up.

Best to trust your first instinct with these types of threads. I understand the pain, and it is a good point - what is supposed to happen if both umpires are 'certain' they have it right? But in the end it just highlights the importance of taking your chances. Currently we don't give ourselves anywhere near the reward for our effort.

Amazing game. We have our first real chance in decades of producing elite midfielders. If his decision making and execution by foot was as good as his hands, he'd be unbelievable.

Our challenge now is to start convert our chances more often. That first quarter is how we lost it. Heartbreaking again. 2 games by less than a kick. We should be top 4.

Hughes!! I'd forgotten how stressful being competitive is!

3 points at the last break. Great to see us sticking with them. Hope that first quarter doesn't come back to bite us. C'mon Dees!

Back out to 7. It has that annoying 'close but not enough' feel about it at the moment. It's a good test of where we're at.

ABC have just dissected Jack during half time. Parkin convinced he has application issues off the field, saying he works hard enough on ground, but his approach to training, gym work and recovery isn't up to the level required. Given Parkin noted that he's an 'outsider looking in', I'd love to know what he bases his opinion on.

Given Port's notorious hard lines in their previous trading history, I'd think we'd need to give up more than we'd want to, so can't see either being a real possibility. But a first round pick for Boak - we could use more speed, ball winning ability and clean skills - only that's not going to carry much weight this year.

Insecure much? Sounds like you're typing from the 50s with that attitude mate - wearing pink and recognising women! Don't they know real men do neither? Get a grip. It's for a good cause. I'd understand the negativity if it was a one off commercial grab like the M&M Blues or the yellow Pura Saints or the crass commercialisation of the hawks' new 'kokoda' strip, but for this? If you're so impassioned about the history the jumper represents, where's the animosity towards the 'away' jumpers? Anyway have you seen our guernseys the last few years? The dyes on the new materials make the yoke look pinkish anyway rather than a blood red. This thread hasn't done you any favours.

Which elite level CHFs of recent times have waited until they were over 28 to become 'champions'? Most of them are nearing the end of their peak by that time. As has been noted numerous times here, all truly good KPFs have shown promise early on, and become champions well before 28. Brown, Riewoldt, Franklin, Llyod, Carey etc. were all recognised as being amongst the very best of the competition by the erly 20s. Schwarz, as a Melbourne comparison, was ready to join such ranks at 22. 'Good' KPFs might take until their late 20s to make the most of their talents, but elite ones do it early. Your note about where Jack's AFL output is compared to other top level KPFs is true, and your call for paitence is sensible. However the idea that we shouldn't expect much from Jack in the near future is off the mark. If he's to become A grade, and we need him to and expect him to, he should be showing signs of what he is capable of towards the end of this year and in 2011. If he's to become what we want, he should be amongst the competition's best by 2013. From what I've seen of him, I'm confident he will do that, but if we are waiting until his late 20s, he will not have been the player we needed. Given this is essentially his first year, it's not too much of a worry yet - but if he is still only producing similar performances in the VFL by the end of the year it will be concerning.