What has Dustin Martin allegedly done?

Party boy that is often seen out at dodgy bars a la Dane Swan.

Party boy that is often seen out at dodgy bars a la Dane Swan.

a la Colin Sylvia... although neither Swan or Martin have crashed their BMW and done a runner.

a la Colin Sylvia... although neither Swan or Martin have crashed their BMW and done a runner.

Not that we know of.

It's not about what Neeld tolerates or what Neeld accepts. The idea that players will behave when they respect the coach is all nice and dandy, but it's what the player does when he's not at the club, and not under the coach's watchful eye that is a worry. If the player has no self control or sense of correct behaviour, then it doesn't matter how wonderful whiz bang the coach is. If the player is out of control I don't want a bar of it. Richmond abandoning such a clearly talented player so young is a massive red flag in this regard.

Also, before old dee accuses me of only wanting choir boys, in between the extremes of "choir boy" and "out of control lunatic" is a huge big grey area that I'm happy for our playing group to fall in.

In my post I was actually talking about the recruiting stage and how Neeld would judge his character and intentions. Plenty of players have turned it around before.

a la Colin Sylvia... although neither Swan or Martin have crashed their BMW and done a runner.

Neither has Colin, but we know you're not good with details.

And even if he had, that's not that problem with any of the 3, it's merely a byproduct of their attitudes.

Btw, you could just as easily say that neither Garlett or Sylvia has missed training due to "taking sleeping pills," or that neither Sylvia nor Martin have posted photos of themselves heavily intoxicated on twitter with the hashtag "#cooked" because they were off their guts.

I don't see Neeld as someone easily sucked in though. His teaching background strengthens that too.

Really? and you think someone as hard as Hardwick would get sucked in? and having a teaching background doesn't mean jack [censored] stuie..

2009 another dud draft?

Why we got Trenners despite what the naysayers on here think & we got Sculldog who turned out to be part of the package which enabled us to get Viney/Toumpas & Hogan by holding several cards

Dustin Martin is one of Richmond's best players, they won't get rid of him.

And if they do, there will be every other club in the running for him.

If by some miracle Richmond do get rid of him, then he would leave Vic.

This thread shouldn't exist.

Really? and you think someone as hard as Hardwick would get sucked in? and having a teaching background doesn't mean jack [censored] stuie..

Catch up mate.... If Hardwick let him go it could be a wake up call to him and Neeld may be able to tell if he's genuine about it or not.

The guy is an absolute superstar and exactly what we need in the midfield. If Neeld is really as tough as he talks then he can reign him in and we'll have a gun player. It's a sign of weak coaching/management if you don't take on challenges that are worth the rewards and always play it safe.

So was Benny

Catch up mate.... If Hardwick let him go it could be a wake up call to him and Neeld may be able to tell if he's genuine about it or not.

You also do relise we are trying to build a strong culture aswell.. We just got rid of your party boy mate brent moloney and now you want this headcase. We haven't got time to try and keep this guy off the gear neeld only wants blokes who are desperate and give 100 % on and OFF the field

You also do relise we are trying to build a strong culture aswell.. We just got rid of your party boy mate brent moloney and now you want this headcase. We haven't got time to try and keep this guy off the gear neeld only wants blokes who are desperate and give 100 % on and OFF the field

And why do you build such a culture? So it effects all that come into the club. FMD you're either slow or ignoring the key points of what I'm saying. I'll explain one more time, but then you're going to have to ask a teacher... I said IF he gets ditched by the tigers there's the chance, however small, that it'd be a wake up call for him and he'd get his act together, after that IF we meet with him and IF Neeld thinks he's genuine in his desire to be part of our culture then we should take him. We would be as dumb as you if we didn't.

Of course, you could just be happy with finishing 16th every year and having 22 VFL standard players running out every week who give it 100% but have little talent.

So was Benny

So was Benny...... what? Hardly the same situation taking a young player entering his prime as a senior player who was already struggling. And unless you know more than anyone else, the level of "troubledness" between these two is quite different. Do any of you actually understand what I've been saying? All I'm saying is if he turns it around and NEELD believes it will work, why wouldn't we do it?! So many of you are happy with Neeld's decisions on Martin, Gysberts, Rivers etc etc but all of a sudden you're saying you wouldn't trust him to not be dumb enough to get sucked in by this guy? Our culture has to get to a stage where we trust it to influence new players, why else would Sydney be so happy to get Tippett?

It's not about what Neeld tolerates or what Neeld accepts. The idea that players will behave when they respect the coach is all nice and dandy, but it's what the player does when he's not at the club, and not under the coach's watchful eye that is a worry. If the player has no self control or sense of correct behaviour, then it doesn't matter how wonderful whiz bang the coach is. If the player is out of control I don't want a bar of it. Richmond abandoning such a clearly talented player so young is a massive red flag in this regard.

Also, before old dee accuses me of only wanting choir boys, in between the extremes of "choir boy" and "out of control lunatic" is a huge big grey area that I'm happy for our playing group to fall in.

If that was the case he'd never have even made it onto an AFL list, let alone kept the spot for over 2 years. You appear to be grossly under-estimating the rigours of being an AFL player in today's game.

Way too much gets made of rumours and gossip on social media, it's amazing the reputation he has when the only thing that's been proven was missing training once because of sleeping pills.

So was Benny...... what? Hardly the same situation taking a young player entering his prime as a senior player who was already struggling. And unless you know more than anyone else, the level of "troubledness" between these two is quite different. Do any of you actually understand what I've been saying? All I'm saying is if he turns it around and NEELD believes it will work, why wouldn't we do it?! So many of you are happy with Neeld's decisions on Martin, Gysberts, Rivers etc etc but all of a sudden you're saying you wouldn't trust him to not be dumb enough to get sucked in by this guy? Our culture has to get to a stage where we trust it to influence new players, why else would Sydney be so happy to get Tippett?

To quote your earlier post

The guy is an absolute superstar

, but he threw it all away due to a lack of discipline (note I deliberately avoided any reference to any form of "troubledness")... Cousins and Martin, both sublimely skilled, both self centred party boys with no real understanding of the meaning of "team". Too big a risk for mine.

To quote your earlier post, but he threw it all away due to a lack of discipline (note I deliberately avoided any reference to any form of "troubledness")... Cousins and Martin, both sublimely skilled, both self centred party boys with no real understanding of the meaning of "team". Too big a risk for mine.

And you know this from what exactly? The reliable source that is Caro? Please, for the last time try and understand what I'm saying... IF he was kicked out of Tigerland and IF that gave him a wake up call, and IF we met with him, and IF Neeld was convinced he was genuine in his change, then we should take him as he's a SUPERSTAR midfielder, something we 0 of.

And why do you build such a culture? So it effects all that come into the club. FMD you're either slow or ignoring the key points of what I'm saying. I'll explain one more time, but then you're going to have to ask a teacher... I said IF he gets ditched by the tigers there's the chance, however small, that it'd be a wake up call for him and he'd get his act together, after that IF we meet with him and IF Neeld thinks he's genuine in his desire to be part of our culture then we should take him. We would be as dumb as you if we didn't.

Of course, you could just be happy with finishing 16th every year and having 22 VFL standard players running out every week who give it 100% but have little talent.

Hahaha wake up and smell the roses stuie ffs you are kidding yourself if you think Neeldy would even consider it! Why didn't we take a rookie punt on Garlett? because of off field problems and too much of a party boy, why did we get rid of Martin and Moloney? Not only beamer couldn't buy into Neeldys plan but his off field behaviour was a bad influence to the younger guys and Martin had attitude problems! I know for a fact that Neeldy is trying to build a no [censored] policy at the club hence why he got rid of those players including Gysberts and Jurrah aswell. Martin doesn't have the right attitude at all! Doesn't fit the character of a player that has his head screwed on that Neeld is trying to build and that's obviouse the reason we recruited Dawes, Rodan, Byrnes, Sellar, Clark and Pedersen the last two years.

Hahaha wake up and smell the roses stuie ffs you are kidding yourself if you think Neeldy would even consider it! Why didn't we take a rookie punt on Garlett? because of off field problems and too much of a party boy, why did we get rid of Martin and Moloney? Not only beamer couldn't buy into Neeldys plan but his off field behaviour was a bad influence to the younger guys and Martin had attitude problems! I know for a fact that Neeldy is trying to build a no [censored] policy at the club hence why he got rid of those players including Gysberts and Jurrah aswell. Martin doesn't have the right attitude at all! Doesn't fit the character of a player that has his head screwed on that Neeld is trying to build and that's obviouse the reason we recruited Dawes, Rodan, Byrnes, Sellar, Clark and Pedersen the last two years.

Geeeeeebus..... Read my post mate.

Last time I explain it, so here's a really short version... If Mark Neeld decided to sign him up, I'd support it.

FMD.

So was Benny...... what? Hardly the same situation taking a young player entering his prime as a senior player who was already struggling. And unless you know more than anyone else, the level of "troubledness" between these two is quite different. Do any of you actually understand what I've been saying? All I'm saying is if he turns it around and NEELD believes it will work, why wouldn't we do it?! So many of you are happy with Neeld's decisions on Martin, Gysberts, Rivers etc etc but all of a sudden you're saying you wouldn't trust him to not be dumb enough to get sucked in by this guy? Our culture has to get to a stage where we trust it to influence new players, why else would Sydney be so happy to get Tippett?

Maybe because of the culture Sydney have built up.. Tippett has never had any off field issues at all stuie.. Sydney is an attractive club to go play at because of the culture they have. One of the best in the business just ask Mitch Morton. There leadership is outstanding and one I admire so greatly. We are trying to go down that path in bringing players that have the right character and desire to succeed and be a positive influence to our younger guys.

Geeeeeebus..... Read my post mate.

Last time I explain it, so here's a really short version... If Mark Neeld decided to sign him up, I'd support it.

FMD.

Keep Dreaming

Can't see Hardwick getting rid of him. Can't say I'd want him if he was let go. Would need to be traded for.

Risk to club culture........vs.......gain if he behaves himself......vs .......draft pick and/or players given up to get him

Too early to gauge this yet IMO. If he behaves this year, Hardwick will want to keep him. If he self destructs, to what extent and can he pull it together at another club?

And anyone who thinks Cuz cleaned up his act while he was at Richmond is kidding themselves.

Other players out there for us to get

If Richmond are willing to let him go, it speaks volumes.

And as long as they want to keep him, they will find a way.

Much like us not keeping Brock McLean.