Scully and Butcher at Visy Park today

[beelzebub 23,352]

How did Gale prove that? (I mean, besides choosing the job of Richmond CEO)

And I don't think we can really judge CAC compared to his replacements for a few more years yet.

Gale...a supposed clever lad and thinker got sprung very quickly by Sheahan as an inept liar. Oh yes..heres a man on top of his job.

Im happy to make the call on CAC now.. fair enough if youre not

[rpfc 28,390]

Gale...a supposed clever lad and thinker got sprung very quickly by Sheahan as an inept liar. Oh yes..heres a man on top of his job.

Im happy to make the call on CAC now.. fair enough if youre not

Do we have to have this borish argument over CAC again?

He brought you such names as Morton, Grimes, Petterd, Frawley, Garland, Warnock, Bate, Davey, Maric, McLean, Sylvia, and Rivers.

But he also picked a lot of crap too.

Blah, blah, blah.

Move on.

[e25 5]

Gale...a supposed clever lad and thinker got sprung very quickly by Sheahan as an inept liar. Oh yes..heres a man on top of his job.

Im happy to make the call on CAC now.. fair enough if youre not

Can't remember what happened with Gale, or maybe it was one of my busy weeks and i missed it - care to enlighten me?

I've made the call on CAC, I'm just hesitant to brand his replacements as anything just yet since its far too early to judge... actually, mind you.. Bennell, Jetta and Jurrah have been inspiring...

But I'll still stay on this one for now.

[H_T 3,043]

Gale has very quickly proven hes not quite as clever as he thinks...and Im glad CAC is at Richmond now as his replacements here have proved far more insightful and skillful than he.

Its going to take years to change..for Richmond as I think Tigers are just behind Zebras ...stripewise !!

How can you prove this exactly BB?

Do we have to have this borish argument over CAC again?

He brought you such names as Morton, Grimes, Petterd, Frawley, Garland, Warnock, Bate, Davey, Maric, McLean, Sylvia, and Rivers.

But he also picked a lot of crap too.

Blah, blah, blah.

Move on.

I agree entirely.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

You have not worked it out.

And you are a simpleton. Do we really need to fill every thread with emoticons to convey sarcasm?

I'd back Hannibal, Bob, Fan, WJ and possibly Jekyll off the top.

The rest I dont think I would back.

I think Bob and Fan don't post as much as perhaps an older incarnation of the site. Hence I don't find myself in conversations with them as much as other posters. WJ, even if he didn't run the site, deserves 100% respect. I doubt anyone would claim to love MFC more, or to have done as much. H is the only poster on the site who regularly makes the boards more interesting, and offers insight to the average disenfranchised fan.

I believe it's either Redleg or Fan that used to work for the club, perhaps 10-15 years ago. Though I'm happy to be corrected. Other than that, everyone on here is on level pegging. That is, nobody else here can claim to have any ironclad insight that is anything beyond your average fan/net-based point scoring. Which is what makes it funny (and at the same time, wholly sad) when certain posters, and mods, get all antsy and pick fights with the kids who come on here... I believe that they think they're educating the masses.

Back on Butcher... I was thinking today back to the draft of last year. We missed out by one pick on Shoenmakers, who looks pretty sound. But that was in a superdraft(ish) year, full of talls.

Let's say, hypothetically, that Shoenmakers was 12 months younger, was available in this draft, and was up against Butcher. Which would you take? Would one be clearly more preferred than the other? Would Shoenmakers drop Butcher back one notch as the best preferred tall? Or would he come in the teens again, like last year.

In other words. Would Butcher have gone in the first round last year? Would he have gone before Strauss/Blease? Would you be MORE excited about him if he were picked up late, and thus didn't have the pressure of a first rounder?

I'd like to see him at the club, as I reckon it'd be good to get a decent (if not spectacular) tall before GC and GWS come in. However, like most, I reckon we need the first two picks for genuine mids first, before we look at our KP players. Usually I'd be completely the other way around, but we really are in dire need in the guts.

[e25 5]

I think Butcher would've gone around the same spot as Vickery, but easily could've slipped like a McKernan

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

And you are a simpleton. Do we really need to fill every thread with emoticons to convey sarcasm?

I would have thought you were last one to bandy about that accusation Dappa. In the post you quoted, I didn't. Something troubling on the home front? Regardless, the nature of forums and e-mail is a rather blunt tool and emoticons can break down the bluntness. If you dont like it...well....

[Guest Digga]

I would have thought you were last one to bandy about that accusation Dappa. In the post you quoted, I didn't. Something troubling on the home front? Regardless, the nature of forums and e-mail is a rather blunt tool and emoticons can break down the bluntness. If you dont like it...well....

Your opinion and style of persuasion can be described as self aggrandizement

In your case emoticons are used to patronise the other person as your argument usually does not hold weight. Insecurity? On the home front?

Edited September 7, 2009 by Digga

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Your opinion and style of persuasion can be described as self aggrandizement

The rest I dont think I would back.

You're more an innocuous example of what I thinking.

[Guest Digga]

You're more an innocuous example of what I thinking.

That was easy.

[Jarka 767]

The problem with Butcher for me is he just doesn't have the wow factor that the early KPP's normally have ( see Reiwoldt, Watts, Kruezer). He's a big kid who uses his size advantage well at underage level, but his second and third efforts are 'ho hum'. There's a huge question mark over wether he can translate hsi abilities to AFL level.

I'd prefer Trengove, Morabito, Martin or Lucas over Butcher.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

I can see Butcher in purple.

The Wanchors might pass on Butcher because they are keen to load up on WA boys.

[beelzebub 23,352]

Can't remember what happened with Gale, or maybe it was one of my busy weeks and i missed it - care to enlighten me?

Sheahan got wind of Gale being offered the Richmond role the week before it came to light. Sheahan rang gale to ask for comments.. is this true etc.. as Sheahan was to run the story. Gale categorically denied he was in the running or had an offer etc etc etc.. Sheahan suggested to him this wasnt quite right. Now Gale is supposedly a cluey bloke who has done quite well well for the AFLPA.... but now falls all over himslef in tangled knots of lies. Sheahan apparently rang him again. Still more denials.. Prior to the Sheahan story gale apparently rings Sheahan to modify his stance whilst still essentially pleading ignorance.

Sheahan was correct al the way along.. and Gale not only showed he was an inept liar but a poor handler of situations when in the spotlight. He was in a somewhat protected environment at eh AFLPA... now he wil have to show considerably more acumen. Not sure if he has it. still thats richmonds problem.

p.s not saying CAC was incapable just that our current FD is more efective already.

[Axis of Bob 11,801]

I don't know why I'm bothering, but all that vitriol from you (and Sheahan) all because Gale didn't want the media to know about his appointment before it was announced? You were just sucked in when Sheahan chucked a teary after Gale became CEO because he didn't have the scoop. If he was strong enough with his information then he would have done it anyway - it's never stopped the media in the past.

I saw the article and thought it was one of the most pathetic pieces of journalism I'd ever seen. Sheahan having a cry in his new column because someone wouldn't give him a story. Selfish rubbish.

I just assumed that everyone thought that, so I am surprised that it had such in impact on you.

[beelzebub 23,352]

So why did you bother Bob ??

Whether Mike sooked or not.. Gale fibbed and got sprung in a big manner. He showed...as I stated that he isnt as smart as he thinks. This,the first ( all but ) act as the new CEo of Richmond... yep...highly professional. Richmonds got a winner here

Dont assume Bob...you know how that turns out .

Im trying to keep it matter of fact.. as it is.

Edited September 7, 2009 by belzebub59

[Axis of Bob 11,801]

Of course Gale knew that Sheahan would know he was lying - he was about to be announced as CEO. But Gale is entitled to have some control over when he wants the news to come out. Personally, I wouldn't want a CEO that tells the truth every time he's asked a question. If he did then it would cause absolute chaos and the ability to play the politics is all part and parcel of the job.

And my assumption of basic human intelligence came from a misguided faith in mankind. It's not a mistake I try to make often on these boards.

[e25 5]

I've got to agree with Bob here.

I think this is all of little consequence and I don't think its any indication of Gale's intelligence or capability to take on the role of CEO.

If you didn't see how he performed on Footy Classified earlier in the year he was very impressive.

Sheahan is a pretender.

(And I think I completely missed it because I don't make a habit of wasting my time reading Sheahan's self-serving puff pieces)

Edited September 8, 2009 by Enforcer25

[beelzebub 23,352]

Bob.. the thing for me that showed up the lack of real smartws for gale...was..as you say, he knew he had been smoked out.. He even knew the right way to go about it...in the end. !! Too late then. He should have had enough fox about him to have gone about it in a much cleverer way.

To flatly deny it when he knew, and obviously by then he knew Sheahan knew , was dumb. A "no comment' at this time" ..or a gentlemans agreement to give him the scoop come the appropriate day would have had the impression he was an astute man. I dont think he is. He might get better....he'd want to for the Toige's sake.

It wasnt so much he lied ..but that he totally balls'd it up.

[beelzebub 23,352]

Now back to Scully etc. As remarked elsewhere ( whilst watching the Martin footage ) there were snippets of Butcher. didnt shine too much for me. Seems very one paced and easily casught out if away from goal. He doesnt sem to really know what to do with it if hes not actually attempting to score.

Yes hes a farily big boy now and wil probablyfill out a bit more but he'll be playing on blokes just as strong come AFL. Im really not convinced he's anywhere near a #2 choice

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

Very dissapointing game by Butcher on the weekend.

I'm not sure I'd want a key forward who refuses to back himself from 40 metres out.

With the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm going to repeat what I wrote a month or so about him - because it's quite clear, he hasn't changed these aspects of his game:

While his ability at ground level is fine, he is quite athletic and his agility is good.

My concern over Butcher is that over 2009 - while he's great in the air, his field kicking (and goal kicking) and disposal to teammates is very poor at times, he is prone to missing passes to leading targets from 30 metres away !! (if u want a good laugh, get a hold of the TAC Cup vision of Gippsland vs. Bendigo - listen to the absolute BAKE his coach gives him).

Another major concern is that he looks to be suffering from Mitch Clark syndrome we saw pre-draft 2005 (and NO im not talking about meningacoccal lol) just looks as if he doesn't care when he's out on the ground - I've lost count of the number of times I've seen his opponent run off him to see Butcher just watch on in the hope his team turns the ball over - and he's got no opponent on him.

He's got the ability and potential - but like Mitch Clark did in 2005 - he will slip down a bit in some peoples rankings because over the course of 2009 - I've not seen him put in a 4 quarter game of footy.

Needs to be schooled.

I think there are certain areas where Butcher needs to be "schooled"

1. He needs to learn to PRESENT, PRESENT, PRESENT at all costs - like a Riewoldt.

There are times where I've seen him offer one lead, upon being ignored - he either just casually jogs or he remains motionless.

2. He needs to learn to that there is life beyond the forward half of the ground.

Essentially he needs to present more of an option down the wing or past the half forward line - even moving into defense to match up or offer a contested mark if need be.

3. He needs to learn to that aside from marking - KICKING is essential to the game.

Needs to become more consistent with his goal kicking AND his field kicking to teammates. If he's going to be trained and groomed into a CHF - then he will most likely be taking marks on the wing, and flanks, and down the ground. Therefore he needs to improve his kicking to be able to hit moving targets.

At the moment - I can honestly say, I can see him slipping in the draft.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

Very dissapointing game by Butcher on the weekend.

I'm not sure I'd want a key forward who refuses to back himself from 40 metres out.

I do believe we already have one of those on our list.

[DeeMfc 621]

I wouldn't even take Butcher with pick 18.

Waaaaaayyyyyy over-rated IMO.......

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

I wouldn't even take Butcher with pick 18.

Waaaaaayyyyyy over-rated IMO.......

He'd probably be picked up with #18 - theres something to work with there lol

[beelzebub 23,352]

If he were to slide to 18..and we still had 18* I would take him then. He's a bit more of a project then a ready to go for me. In 2-3 he could be something..or just another couldhavebeen !!. Still not a #2 contender

* I suspect we wont as having used it as part of a trade.