Why next year is not about wins.

[furious d 472]

First, forgive me if you consider this a drafting and trading thread, move it you like mods, but I think it's more a delisting and working with what we've got thread.

The rumour, which seems to have some legs in the media, about Bailey's 1 year contract extension got me thinking about this. I think it would be a fantastic move by the club. It basically says the club supports Bailey's efforts to teach our young list to play and recognises that more time is needed for development before a 5-7 year premiership window opens. If this rebuild has been truly successful we should be a genuine premiership threat from the time Scully and pick 2 are 21 until they're at least 26. By then Jurrah, Garland and Frawley will be 29 and Morton, Grimes and Watts will be somewhere in between. These are the players we should be looking to build around.

The next 2 years it is critical to get games into our young players and we are going to have plenty of them. As it stands right now there are 21 players on our list with less than 50 games under their belts, 18 of those have less than 30. That is certain to increase after we've finished delisting, trading and drafting. Next year I think we need to rest players if they have niggles and again be very conservative with injuries if only to ensure we can spread the experience through our list a bit. I'd rather Bailey managed the list to start peaking in 2012 than play his best 22 week in week out starting rd1 next year.

I know a lot of people hope and think that we could sneak a flag early, like the baby bombers or the hawks last year. If we do well and good, I certainly won't be complaining. I really hope however that Bailey won't be seduced by a string of wins early next year and get ahead of himself as Daniher often did. The class on our list that could bring us sustained success is still in nappies in football terms. 2012 should be when we start picking our best side week in week out and if we win a flag early I think this would be it. Obviously we won't be playing for losses anymore and places need to be earned, not just rotation for rotations sake, but I still think some groundwork needs to be laid and Bailey is the man for the job.

Anyway for discussions sake this is where i see the list RD 1 2012. It's very simple and doesn't allow for trades.

First I'm guessing we'll draft 5 this year and 4 in 2011, assuming that draft to be pillaged, and I've elevated Spencer this year and McKenzie next year. Thats 11 spaces to find, 3 more this year. Valenti is stiff but I can't see room this year.

None of these would be in my top 3 but I've gone with uncontracted players. Miller, Bartram and Buckley, all 3 are unlucky as I'd prefer Bell, Newton And Johnson but they'll follow the next year along with a retiring Junior and one of Dunn, Bail or Meesen

By that time if we share the load around we could have, considering there's probably 10-12 players who pick themselves every week if uninjured a reasonable number of games into considerable sets of young legs, such as-

30-40 games

Watts, Scully, Blease, Bennell, Strauss, Cheney, McNamara, Maric, Meesen, pick2, and pick18, with Jetta and Jurrah possibly pushing 50

50-80 games

Morton, Grimes, Garland, Frawley, Martin, Petterd, Martin, Dunn, Wonneaemirri and Warnock

Bate, Jamar, Mclean, Rivers and sylvia should all have pushed beyond 100 games with Davey and both Bruce and Green would be possibilities to go around again if their bodies hold up and I see no reason why they shouldn't. They'd both be on the veterans list and noboby else would be avilable yet I believe.

By then competition for spots should be fierce and if we"ve had a good look at everybody we can make educated decisions post 2012 and beyond.

[Einstein 1]

You make some valid points about the amount of work that is still required to develop this list to one that is premiership calibre. We cant get too far ahead of ourselves.

But next year, and every year from now on, is about winning. The best 22 should and will be selected each and every week. Players need to earn their spots. I want players who are hungry to win and I expect the coaching staff to do everything in their power to give the players the best opportunity to do so.

I dont have the patience or the tolerance to put up with another season of [censored] farting around too much with our list. Yeah, there will be some form of 'list management' as we continue to find out who can and cant play when and where.

But it's time to win.

Herm Edwards agrees with me.

[Trisul 664]

Very much agree with your outline and thrust furious.

[rpfc 28,777]

Next year is about winning?

How about 'next year is about building a team to win a flag.'

These are the decisions the FD have to make that will hurt our chances to win games in 2010 but are needed to win that flag:

Watts over Miller/Newton

Scully in from Rd 1 if fit.

Trengove/Morabito, Blease, and Strauss given games over Bell, Dunn, and Batram.

Martin as backup ruck to Spencer/Jamar/Meesen/PJ. Only one of those to be playing with Martin.

Bruce, McDonald, and Green to play periphery roles.

There are probably more, but these are the ones that scream at me.

[Einstein 1]

How about 'next year is about building a team to win a flag.'

Yeah, thats better put than I did.

Developing a winning culture and a playing group that can begin to win games is paramount.

Plenty of development to come. No doubt there will be times next year that excite us as much as there will be games that leave us scratching our heads.

MFC Flight 13 boarding now.

[rpfc 28,777]

Developing a winning culture and a playing group that can begin to win games is paramount.

I just threw up a little...

Can people stop posting that?

It's nauseating.

[Hannabal 4]

We need to start winning games. I could write a page on developing the list, but at the end of the day we've got to start getting some wins.

7-9 next year.

Finals in 2011

[Einstein 1]

I just threw up a little...

Can people stop posting that?

It's nauseating.

Fair enough. Im not often inclined to echo the obvious but I guess I just did. :D

But if I responded to every bit of cliched fluff I read on this site that makes me nauseous, Id be posting often.

[Old Gregg 1]

First, forgive me if you consider this a drafting and trading thread, move it you like mods, but I think it's more a delisting and working with what we've got thread.

The rumour, which seems to have some legs in the media, about Bailey's 1 year contract extension got me thinking about this. I think it would be a fantastic move by the club. It basically says the club supports Bailey's efforts to teach our young list to play and recognises that more time is needed for development before a 5-7 year premiership window opens. If this rebuild has been truly successful we should be a genuine premiership threat from the time Scully and pick 2 are 21 until they're at least 26. By then Jurrah, Garland and Frawley will be 29 and Morton, Grimes and Watts will be somewhere in between. These are the players we should be looking to build around.

The next 2 years it is critical to get games into our young players and we are going to have plenty of them. As it stands right now there are 21 players on our list with less than 50 games under their belts, 18 of those have less than 30. That is certain to increase after we've finished delisting, trading and drafting. Next year I think we need to rest players if they have niggles and again be very conservative with injuries if only to ensure we can spread the experience through our list a bit. I'd rather Bailey managed the list to start peaking in 2012 than play his best 22 week in week out starting rd1 next year.

I know a lot of people hope and think that we could sneak a flag early, like the baby bombers or the hawks last year. If we do well and good, I certainly won't be complaining. I really hope however that Bailey won't be seduced by a string of wins early next year and get ahead of himself as Daniher often did. The class on our list that could bring us sustained success is still in nappies in football terms. 2012 should be when we start picking our best side week in week out and if we win a flag early I think this would be it. Obviously we won't be playing for losses anymore and places need to be earned, not just rotation for rotations sake, but I still think some groundwork needs to be laid and Bailey is the man for the job.

Anyway for discussions sake this is where i see the list RD 1 2012. It's very simple and doesn't allow for trades.

First I'm guessing we'll draft 5 this year and 4 in 2011, assuming that draft to be pillaged, and I've elevated Spencer this year and McKenzie next year. Thats 11 spaces to find, 3 more this year. Valenti is stiff but I can't see room this year.

None of these would be in my top 3 but I've gone with uncontracted players. Miller, Bartram and Buckley, all 3 are unlucky as I'd prefer Bell, Newton And Johnson but they'll follow the next year along with a retiring Junior and one of Dunn, Bail or Meesen

By that time if we share the load around we could have, considering there's probably 10-12 players who pick themselves every week if uninjured a reasonable number of games into considerable sets of young legs, such as-

30-40 games

Watts, Scully, Blease, Bennell, Strauss, Cheney, McNamara, Maric, Meesen, pick2, and pick18, with Jetta and Jurrah possibly pushing 50

50-80 games

Morton, Grimes, Garland, Frawley, Martin, Petterd, Martin, Dunn, Wonneaemirri and Warnock

Bate, Jamar, Mclean, Rivers and sylvia should all have pushed beyond 100 games with Davey and both Bruce and Green would be possibilities to go around again if their bodies hold up and I see no reason why they shouldn't. They'd both be on the veterans list and noboby else would be avilable yet I believe.

By then competition for spots should be fierce and if we"ve had a good look at everybody we can make educated decisions post 2012 and beyond.

2010 Draft?

[Wolfmother 182]

I think the FD has really stuffed up our list management this year....

As much as everyone has Jurrah as the FF, I just don't see it so it should be newton based on who is on our list... We should of kept Robbo for another year and delisted Newton (but we couldn't because of contracts)... There is a chance Miller could get the flick as he is out of contract but I would prefer him over Newton but contract management has been poor.

I agree that the three that probably will be delisted will be Miller, Bartram and Buckley but only because they were out of contract if it was the whole list I think Newton, Messon or Johnson, Bell would be delisted.

I think our contracting has caused a couple of players to be retired/delisted that we would intend on keeping but can't, which is a bit of a shame...

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

two wooden spoons, two no. 1 draft picks + no.2, next year is all about winning. Miller and Newton are finished, forward line will contain Watts , Jurrah, Bate , Sylvia and a fit Aussie is a walk up start. why , because he is our crumbing forward. DB has indicated we still need another tall. one of Jones ,Brock and Beamer will and should miss for younger , quicker mids. DB has done a super job within two years, the key now is no dead wood, he has allready shown he wont hesitate. next year is about list managment, snap out of it. we have shown glimpes of what we can do. now we need consistency.

[Matt Demon 1,482]

I agree with this thread, we still have a lot of developing to do but we need to win games to bring people through the gate. Not everyone is as passionate as most of us on here, If we want crowds and members we need to be seen to be improving and that means winning. Winning means more members, crowds, sponsors, better fixtures etc

[Roger Mellie 4,103]

Furious - your post reads as though 'I'd love this but I'll accept this.' It's winning games from here on in. Players wont be sent for surgery in round 16 anymore. I'm not interested in gearing up for pick 6 and resting players . The FD knows all about the players we've got. 2010 - onwards and upwards

[DemonDan... 77]

We need to start winning games. I could write a page on developing the list, but at the end of the day we've got to start getting some wins.

7-9 next year.

Finals in 2011

Yep. These have to be the minimum goals.

What would 'Caro' say about this thread??

"Bad call. Stupid call! Have you watched the Dees in the last 3 yrs??"

[rpfc 28,777]

Yep. These have to be the minimum goals.

What would 'Caro' say about this thread??

"Bad call. Stupid call! Have you watched the Dees in the last 3 yrs??"

I going to make an argument and then I am going to cement that argument by refering to the awful Footy Classified and the stupid penultimate segment that lists 'calls' that no-one has ever 'called' and then have a go at this supposed 'caller.'

I am a poor debater...

[rpfc 28,777]

Furious - your post reads as though 'I'd love this but I'll accept this.' It's winning games from here on in. Players wont be sent for surgery in round 16 anymore. I'm not interested in gearing up for pick 6 and resting players . The FD knows all about the players we've got. 2010 - onwards and upwards

Of course they will.

If we are 5 and 11, of course they will. Preparing properly for 2011.

Some on here are over-reacting to the distaste of the last 6 or 7 weeks of the season.

We will sacrifice games next year to develop players and play youth.

It is going to happen, they are trying to win flags, not respect.

They'll like us when we win...

[DemonDan... 77]

I am a poor debater...

No, you are a mass debater.

[rpfc 28,777]

No, you are a mass debater.

You know, I do enter in a lot of debates. Or 'word skirmishes' if you will.

Win quite a few of them too.

Thanks for noticing.

[Brayshaws' Helmet 143]

It has got to be about becoming a credible team. Next year should be about becoming a team that isn't a lock win for the opposition. Which will come eventually, because they are building a pretty strong side if pick numbers are anything to go by.

They will play with a lot more gusto next year.

[Demondeb 8]

I think the FD has really stuffed up our list management this year....

As much as everyone has Jurrah as the FF, I just don't see it so it should be newton based on who is on our list... We should of kept Robbo for another year and delisted Newton (but we couldn't because of contracts)... There is a chance Miller could get the flick as he is out of contract but I would prefer him over Newton but contract management has been poor.

I agree that the three that probably will be delisted will be Miller, Bartram and Buckley but only because they were out of contract if it was the whole list I think Newton, Messon or Johnson, Bell would be delisted.

I think our contracting has caused a couple of players to be retired/delisted that we would intend on keeping but can't, which is a bit of a shame...

I agree - whoever it was that decided to offer Newton a new contract last year seriously needs their heads read and I bet, in hindsight, they would agree with me. Perhaps they saw more last year and hoped for a big 09 from him but thats all it would be - hope - and as we all know he didnt deliver.

Now we are stuck with him for another year unless we can offload him in a trade and I doubt that wil happen. So he takes up a spot on our list that could be offered to someone like Valenti who has a red hot go and I just think that sucks.

Sure he took a great mark once but he cant hang his hat on that and I just dont think he is worth persevering with however we will most likely have to keep him. All I can see for him is a year at Casey because Jurrah and Watts will be our focus in the forward line in 2010 and with Wonna back there is just no room for a show pony with few tricks to his repetoire.

Earlier this year I had Bate on the list of players I wanted to go but he did lift his game and so he has a reprieve from me for now. Bell, alas, must go and I would say Bartram too if they want to really make a statement on who will be there in our tilt towards a flag around 2012/13.

I think the FD really needs to put their heads down and be ruthless when they assess who should get new contracts because if they dont it can come back and bite them a year later as it has in Newton's case.

[spurs-r-us 0]

Next year and beyond is about winning. We need one before GC's 10 year or so window opens and we need to be better than them during the first few years of that

[rpfc 28,777]

Next year and beyond is about winning. We need one before GC's 10 year or so window opens and we need to be better than them during the first few years of that

You want to win a flag in 2013 - 2017?

You have to play Jack Watts in 16-20 games in 2010. Instead of someone that would give you more on the day, someone like Miller.

Now is that 'playing to win.'

No it isn't.

But it's what we have to do.

[e25 5]

Saw Jon Anderson the other day predicting MFC would be playing finals again in 2011 ... but he also suggested we trade Wonnaemirri and Jurrah for Sandilands

[Ryan Dee 140]

DB will play as many kids as he can and for as many games a possible. The priority is playing kids, and not playing the best possible side. This will maximise the potential for win a FLAG.

[maximum bob 462]

Forget the win/loss ratio next year. Like I couldn't give a toss about the spoon this year. Who cares?

DB needs 2010 and a fair whack of 2011 to sort the wheat from the chaff (and settle on a premiership combination in position) considering our recruits and recent arrivals are either new, barely blooded or haven't got on the park through injury.

Like it or not, 2010 will be another year of experimentation and fine tuning.

IMO we're at least 3/4 years away from having any serious crack at the Holy Grail.