These last games...

[beelzebub 22,369]

This is probably news to everyone ( not ) , there isnt really much left in this season to extract other than that which "we dare not talk about" . And even that only occurrs after the season and after the finals and we have to wait and wade through the demise and scathing before we can claim our desserts. If this were Tennis we're facing a couple of months of dead rubbers so to speak.

So what do we do as a club. Carry on the farce ? Pretend we really think we can win 3-4 games ( god forbid ) ?? Or do we do another type of "list management" and hold auditions for those who wish to actually remain on the list. Let them play it out . Some swansongs, some fair dinkum life( footy ) depends on it games and they can show us what all the fuss was about at one time.

There is no dount ( to this observer) that 3-4 will be ending their careers by way of "sayonara, it was a grand ol' time but life goes on !" and some may simply be slipped out the back door with hardly a cut lunch nor a showbag ! Thats footy, thats life.

Personally I wouldnt bother with any charade as to reality and get some bod's back into red and blue and say "its now or never, we're not looking for a win per se, we just want you to try. To play footy, to given us a reason to give you a call back to season oh-10 !!"

It would be refreshing, it would be cathargic in a fashion, to do away with this ridiculous position we find ourselves in and take the lead back in the remaining games and find some true value in them.

There are a few who definitely have no instant recall to the next season. If they are fit, or at least not incapacitated by injury let them play; let them all play and see what comes of it all. This to me gives us something from what is otherwise a total nothing of a remainder of a season.

I'd even include in this list some players many regard as front up monty's of a start each week. Some of these to mine are either off the boil or have the stellar years behind them. If thats the case I would want to know.

So those that ought to play out for mine are Robbo, Rivers, Beamer, Wheels, Wheats, PJ, Dunn, Bail, Miller, Newton, Valenti and Buckley. Dont even really care where you put them Just give them a task to do and evaluate upon the results. Not all available each week and some as mentioned subject to injury but even if they only put in 2-3 quarters that will give an indication. One needs to have some balance understand but Im not after wins, just real information that is useful going forward. This has some real purpose for mine...anything else is a smoke and mirrors dance and no one really wins.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Given our predicament it is an excellent opportunity. So long as we don't risk protracting the development of players that will be around in 3 years for players that probably won't be around.

Dunn, Miller, Valenti and Newton sit firmly in this boat. If we don't play them and they continue to play well at VFL level then we learn nothing. Play them for the rest of the season, delist them if they don't stack up.

PJ, like it or not he'll stay because he is a ruck, (or at least that is how I see it)

Rivers & Beamer aren't going anywhere so i don't think it applies in the same way as it does for dunn etc.

Robbo Whelan and Wheats, I think we know what we will get from them either way, along with some of our older players there should be a plan to retire them starting this year. Then it comes down to which ones show more leadership to the younger players in their development, these last few gmaes might change the mind of the list managers but I suspect (or hope) that they already have a plan in mind.

Buckley: is he still injured? Is he about to come back? I hope so.

Bail: well I havn't seen much of him, both the Casey games I went to he wasn't playing.. I don't think his form has warranted selection, even in the context of the thread. But he's new so i'm happy to hokd my breath until next year.

I would also throw in Bell and Bartram for consideration.

[beelzebub 22,369]

ah yes,...forgot Bell and Barty.. cheers !!

I m just a little jittery re Beamer and Riv.. probably more so Jared. call me picky ( or otherwaise ) but he's no where near his old self. yes extenutaing circumstances perhaps but whislt he shines at VFL he gets a littel out of sorts in teh First, his decisions arwee somewhat in teh "Bruce" league . Not how I recall him years back. if this is all we have going forward..well.. not good enough. If he needs to find rythym etc well last games will help anyway. But for mine Im not convinced. Is Beamer over his injuries too ??.

PJ for me is , whilst apparently on the books for next year thats no certainty he wont be offered up , or such.

granted...I often see things a bit differently from many.

Buckley I understand may be available the last 3-4 games..stand to be corrected..

Wheats ?? is he coming, staying or going ??

Bell definitely needs to ice his cake..or its auf wiedersehn !!

Bartram... needs 'real' form..and needs to show it now.

there are simply too many others with some cause to suggest they will play next year, plus the up and comers..plus the walk-up draftees.

Some lads should be worried a little, and the club needs to know where they are at.

[flog 20]

[

I would also throw in Bell and Bartram for consideration.

[jackie_moon 0]

So those that ought to play out for mine are Robbo, Rivers, Beamer, Wheels, Wheats, PJ, Dunn, Bail, Miller, Newton, Valenti and Buckley. Dont even really care where you put them Just give them a task to do and evaluate upon the results. Not all available each week and some as mentioned subject to injury but even if they only put in 2-3 quarters that will give an indication. One needs to have some balance understand but Im not after wins, just real information that is useful going forward. This has some real purpose for mine...anything else is a smoke and mirrors dance and no one really wins.

I agree we should give the "fringe" players a go and see how they perform. Newton, valenti and bail and i would add bell desperately need to show something or i fear it could be all over. Plenty of talent but it just doesn't seem to translate to afl. But they've never really had a decent chance to get going. Let them play out the season. However if i was a young kid coming through i'd be [censored] to see these boys getting a run ahead of me, so i can see why bailey wants to field his best side.

Bartram, dunn, miller and pj need an extended run but i believe all are considered a part of the side going forward. Buckley needs to get his body right but he's shown what he can do.

I wouldnt include beamer or rivers in that list. Beamer is playing well after just completing his first decent preseason and rivers is finally fit, touch wood. Can't see the club getting rid of him with the patience they've shown getting him right physically, plus he'll only get better and better.

Robbo will have another year in him and it's important he sticks around to help the development of watts, jurrah and dare i say it miller. Might be time for wheels to hang up the boots at years end and i think junior will follow him.

[george_on_the_outer 7,066]

I agree we should give the "fringe" players a go and see how they perform. Newton, valenti and bail and i would add bell desperately need to show something or i fear it could be all over. Plenty of talent but it just doesn't seem to translate to afl. But they've never really had a decent chance to get going. Let them play out the season. However if i was a young kid coming through i'd be [censored] to see these boys getting a run ahead of me, so i can see why bailey wants to field his best side.

Bartram, dunn, miller and pj need an extended run but i believe all are considered a part of the side going forward. Buckley needs to get his body right but he's shown what he can do.

If you look at the "ins" for this week, I would suggest that the plan already is in action.

The fact that Newton, Bail and Valenti aren't in also suggests that a decision has already been made on their future.

[H_T 2,941]

If you look at the "ins" for this week, I would suggest that the plan already is in action.

The fact that Newton, Bail and Valenti aren't in also suggests that a decision has already been made on their future.

They might still be used, even though it suggests a dcesion has already been made.

[beelzebub 22,369]

If you look at the "ins" for this week, I would suggest that the plan already is in action.

The fact that Newton, Bail and Valenti aren't in also suggests that a decision has already been made on their future.

not necessarily... its likely Bails wouldnt use all in the one team but rotate them through according to some sort of role-sharing

[Demon Disciple 11,139]

I don't understand why 'Juice' is not in the side. Surely he should be in for the rest of the season to see if he is up to it or not. He needs an extended run to show what he can do (i'm pretty sure he's contracted for next year anyway). At least he chases and applies some form of forward pressure unlike Robbo. Sure he is a favourite of ours, but his time has surely come to a close as a player.

I would, however seriously entertain having him as our forward coach should he retire, as he would mo doubt be a better coach than the dud that is Mahoney.

[beelzebub 22,369]

Id be inclined to play Newton in probably all but the last 2-3 games and bring Watts in then. I sense Bail is more of a project player, but still include him to see how far he's come along this year...by true measuring stick i.e AFL

I sense either Valenti is going to make it now...or he'll be usurped by the likely draftees !!

[Don24 103]

Bail is a mature age recruit (21?22?) who was recruited out of QAFL so he should be a lot more developed than the other draftees. Everyone remember Baily saying he was the most likely recruit to debut this year due to his age and senior experience? But it is round 15 and he is named in the Casey reserves. I would say he will be delisted this year as he clearly hasnt shown enough and its not like he is an 18 year old.

[e25 5]

I don't understand why 'Juice' is not in the side. Surely he should be in for the rest of the season to see if he is up to it or not. He needs an extended run to show what he can do (i'm pretty sure he's contracted for next year anyway). At least he chases and applies some form of forward pressure unlike Robbo. Sure he is a favourite of ours, but his time has surely come to a close as a player.

I would, however seriously entertain having him as our forward coach should he retire, as he would mo doubt be a better coach than the dud that is Mahoney.

Where's that facepalm picture again..?

WORST.

POST.

EVER.

(possible slight over-exaggeration...)

Edited July 10, 2009 by Enforcer25

[dee-luded 2,958]

Bail is a mature age recruit (21?22?) who was recruited out of QAFL so he should be a lot more developed than the other draftees. Everyone remember Baily saying he was the most likely recruit to debut this year due to his age and senior experience? But it is round 15 and he is named in the Casey reserves. I would say he will be delisted this year as he clearly hasnt shown enough and its not like he is an 18 year old.

No it wasn't about his age & senior experience. It was about the fact that his body is allready partially developed & in that is more advanced than the kids. He also has a well developed wind tank, & has a little advantage there.

But he looks to me still adjusting to the Big boys in the AFL, so he needs to find self belief as he adjusts to the AFL Jungle.

Also the club has been playing him in unfamiliar roles like defence, I assume to round his game off more. So I imagine he has struggled with his confidance somewhat..

Good luck Bails.

[Don24 103]

No it wasn't about his age & senior experience. It was about the fact that his body is allready partially developed & in that is more advanced than the kids. He also has a well developed wind tank, & has a little advantage there.

But he looks to me still adjusting to the Big boys in the AFL, so he needs to find self belief as he adjusts to the AFL Jungle.

Also the club has been playing him in unfamiliar roles like defence, I assume to round his game off more. So I imagine he has struggled with his confidance somewhat..

Good luck Bails.

The fact that is body is already partially developed....as i said he is a mature age recruit, hence is age is the reason why his body is more developed than the kids.....

and it was Dean Baily that said he was most likely to play the most this year out of our 1st year players, he said because of his senior experience.... check your facts..

[Key Deefender 143]

The fact that is body is already partially developed....as i said he is a mature age recruit, hence is age is the reason why his body is more developed than the kids.....

and it was Dean Baily that said he was most likely to play the most this year out of our 1st year players, he said because of his senior experience.... check your facts..

Don't all new draftees get a 2 year contract? So they would have to trade him (no trade value) or pay him out to remove him from the list.

I have been disappointed with his lack of progress, but he has had injuries. I think any new player is entitled to do two pre-seasons and then 2 seasons to show what they have. BBBP saw something he liked when he drafted him and Brisbane were apparently going to take him after us.

I agree that Casey Twos is not a ringing endorsement at the moment, but if he is on a two year contract then we have to give him every chance.

[Akum 2,660]

I'm having a rethink about this issue. Some posters on other threads have advocated "delisting" anything up to about a dozen players, many of them senior. But I can't see how the club will let that happen, the main principle being that there's no point delisting anyone unless there's a reasonable chance of getting someone better.

Also remember that the supply of good young players dries up for 3 years after this draft. Clubs will be forced to rely a lot more on developing their own younger players, even if they haven't shown anything for a year or two. Therefore, none of the younger (i.e. less thn about 24yo) plyers are likely to be delisted unless we can be ertain of getting someone better from a very limited supply line after this year's draft.

This year's draft is good at the top, but shallow further down. We'll get a fantastic top two picks, a good third pick, then it dries up. We may be lucky and get a fourth pick, but struggle for a fifth pick who'll give us more than Bail or Valenti or Hughes, or even than Bell or Dunn or Miller or ... or ... oh hell, or even Newton!!.

The PSD, as always, is a complete lottery - we've done extremely well in the past two years with Stef & LJ, both of them out of left field. One extra player from here is possible, two is unlikely

We're unlikely to pick up anybody extra in the rookie draft too. Clubs will be doing everything they can to hang on to the young players they've got, because they won't get a chance to pick up top-class youngsters for three or four years, so they won't be putting rookies into this draft.

We have a few on our long-term injury list, but there will always be some there.

Therefore, this year I can't see us delisting any more than about 5. And what we don't want is senior players hanging on for another year or two and retiring in 2010 or 2011 when we won't be able to replace them with good draft picks - they either leave this year or hang around until 2012 or 2013 when the recruiting window opens again.

OK, so who's not likely to last until 2012? Junior and Wheels, definitely. Robbo and Wheatley almost certainly. Will Bruce last until the end of 2012?

Then we also have to give up someone to the Gold Coast (and also to Western Sydney??)

So there's the combination of this year's shallow draft, the lack of good draft prospects in 2010 & 2011, and the ones who will be leaving anyway for one reason or another between now and 2012 - older players who need to retire at a time when they can be more easily replaced, and those we have to give to GC & probably WS.

My point is that they're not going to be cutting a swathe through our fringe players. We simply can't afford to. On top of the fringe players who might be headed north, we can only afford to lose one, or two at a pinch, and that's probably only if there's a better prospect than our worst fringe player (Bell? Newton?) still in the draft for our 5th pick.

[beelzebub 22,369]

I agree that a scythe wont be cut through the team but in all likelyhood 6 will go. ...as is likely six will come in !!. Still begs the same pondering really as to whom the six will be ? Some have to be playing for their footy lives..either as delistings of some form of fodder.

[Guest]

If you look at the "ins" for this week, I would suggest that the plan already is in action.

The fact that Newton, Bail and Valenti aren't in also suggests that a decision has already been made on their future.

I don't think you can have Bail on this list. It's his first year and as far as I know it he's being tol how to defend in the vfl to make him a more complete player. Will be kept on the list next year.

I also think that 7-8 players will be delisted as we will have some good rookies coming off the rookie list.

At the moment I think that we will delist Whlan, Wheatley, Bell, Dunn, Newton, Johnson an McDonald and maybe Robertson will retire. This will allow us to use 6 draft picks (1,2,19,35,51 and the first in the PSD) and elevate 2 rookies (Spencer and McKenzie, Hughes or Valenti). Bartram and Miller may also be delisted.

[Ryan Dee 140]

I don't think you can have Bail on this list. It's his first year and as far as I know it he's being tol how to defend in the vfl to make him a more complete player. Will be kept on the list next year.

I also think that 7-8 players will be delisted as we will have some good rookies coming off the rookie list.

At the moment I think that we will delist Whlan, Wheatley, Bell, Dunn, Newton, Johnson an McDonald and maybe Robertson will retire. This will allow us to use 6 draft picks (1,2,19,35,51 and the first in the PSD) and elevate 2 rookies (Spencer and McKenzie, Hughes or Valenti). Bartram and Miller may also be delisted.

Agree, sometimes you have to make some cuts even though you would like to keep some players but he just has not shown enough. Delist him.