You mean Casey?

I even typed that then changed my mind. Time for bed methinks

If right now we played only players who wil play in our next premiership..... god help us we'd get no were.

We need experience to win and these older players are what keeps these younger kids inline and create that winning environment wich is what we lack now and thats good senior players.

I thought that would be the exact reason why he shouldn't play. Our experience hasn't created a winning enviroment they have created a losing enviroment. These ordinary experienced players should only get a game when we are winning we clearly are not they should be shown the door.

Delist

28 and not getting a senior game

no brainer

I see that nobody has an answer to my question...

Who do you drop from the backline in order to fit Wheatley into the side?

i wouldnt drop anyone from the backline. personally id rather him on the wing. i don't want to drop any of the kids, so really i am talking about dropping bruce and putting wheatly on a wing and some of the younger kids in the guts.

this isn't a win, so i wouldn't bother.

he only gets a gig if his form demands it. if not this year he will probably struggle.

I see that nobody has an answer to my question...

Who do you drop from the backline in order to fit Wheatley into the side?

Daniel Ward or Nathan Brown... oh, wait. Its 2009? Well in that case the answer would have to be no one.

He is finished. People remember him being a lot better than he ever was.

And remember kids: A long kick does not equal a good kick.

And remember kids: A long kick does not equal a good kick.

Very true. His kicking isn't fantastic. He just has the ability/tendency to kick it long (which is a nice ability to have, but it's not enough to warrant selection on its own).

I see that nobody has an answer to my question...

Who do you drop from the backline in order to fit Wheatley into the side?

There lies your answer Jaded.

Glad that nobody could answer my question so far.

Just goes to show that Wheatley isn't good enough to push anyone out of the side, and should not be a Melbourne listed player in 2010.

By the way, the kicking thing is a myth. He turns it over consistently (even with Casey), and has no basic accountability; two things Bailey really seems to hate.

Glad that nobody could answer my question so far.

Just goes to show that Wheatley isn't good enough to push anyone out of the side, and should not be a Melbourne listed player in 2010.

By the way, the kicking thing is a myth. He turns it over consistently (even with Casey), and has no basic accountability; two things Bailey really seems to hate.

I was going to say 'Bell', but he's no longer in the side. By the way what is your opinion of him now? (I don't wish to start another thread)

I was going to say 'Bell', but he's no longer in the side. By the way what is your opinion of him now? (I don't wish to start another thread)

I have a soft spot for Belly, I do.

But I don't think he has the required decision making skills or awareness to play in the backline. I've long wanted him to play midfield, and I'm glad Bailey played him there when he got a game. I still think he has some important qualities to add to our midfield, particularly tackling and strength.

I would like to see him replace Bartram (he has superior skills) for the remainder of the season and play as a tagger. Whether that happens or not, I'm not sure.

I also don't know whether or not he's done enough to avoid the cut at the end of the season. A lot will depend on what our senior players decide to do (Junior, Robbo, Wheels).

I would like to see him replace Bartram (he has superior skills) for the remainder of the season and play as a tagger. Whether that happens or not, I'm not sure.

I also don't know whether or not he's done enough to avoid the cut at the end of the season. A lot will depend on what our senior players decide to do (Junior, Robbo, Wheels).

bell has no awareness. at stoppages he'd get killed. he is nto a better option than batram given the role bartram plays in the team.

it is all well and good that he can tackle and is strong. but to be a tagger you need awareness and smarts. bell is questionable in both these categories on the evidence we've seen.

I have a soft spot for Belly, I do.

But I don't think he has the required decision making skills or awareness to play in the backline. I've long wanted him to play midfield, and I'm glad Bailey played him there when he got a game. I still think he has some important qualities to add to our midfield, particularly tackling and strength.

I would like to see him replace Bartram (he has superior skills) for the remainder of the season and play as a tagger. Whether that happens or not, I'm not sure.

I also don't know whether or not he's done enough to avoid the cut at the end of the season. A lot will depend on what our senior players decide to do (Junior, Robbo, Wheels).

You know Jaded, I think you've hit the nail on the head as far as finding a role for him. One who tags. But if he can't do that effectively before the year is out, I'm afraid he might 'not avoid' the cut at the end of season. The number of retirees or how many get delisted maybe Bell's only hope.

You're right, Bailey bowed to your demand of playing him in the middle and it's fair to say he was very quiet and had no influence during his stint.

You know Jaded, I think you've hit the nail on the head as far as finding a role for him. One who tags. But if he can't do that effectively before the year is out, I'm afraid he might 'not avoid' the cut at the end of season. The number of retirees or how many get delisted maybe Bell's only hope.

You're right, Bailey bowed to your demand of playing him in the middle and it's fair to say he was very quiet and had no influence during his stint.

Worth a try, but I don't see it happening.

He's not been a close-checking player or overly physical and has never been in danger of being called a scragger.

Good luck to him, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

STILL, even with a tagger, it has come to the stage where you want them to also be able to use the ball effectively when they get possession, not just kick it long.

So how are you in any way better off than having Bartram..?

Sorry Dappa I usually agree with lot of what you say but not on this one. We can get another 3 great years out of Wheatley. I also think hes been more than servicable

To each their own. I'm certainly not a hater, and I'm not jumping on a sandbox calling for him to be axed or I'll trow in my membership, like so many fools on this site do with so many undeserving players. Paul could get another season or two, but to what end?

I have a soft spot for Belly, I do....... A lot will depend on what our senior players decide to do (Junior, Robbo, Wheels).

That post sums up Bell's contract chances at the end of this season the best it can be summed up.

bell has no awareness. at stoppages he'd get killed. he is nto a better option than batram given the role bartram plays in the team.

Before getting injured at the start of this year Bell was one of our standouts in the preseason. If he can get some of his engine back, and he goes back to the middle, we'll find out more.

I think an old post of Hannabal's put it best in regards to taggers. I'm paraphrasing here, but when you go out and recruit a bunch of midfielders, you AIM for them all to become better than Ablett/Judd. Of course they will likely never achieve this, so you hope for the next best thing, or the third best, fourth, fifth etc etc...

If it all goes horribly wrong you try to manage the player, maybe give them a different role until they seem at home. My problem with having Bell just as a tagger is that if that's ALL he'll ever be, then maybe it's counter-productive to hang on to him. The same applies to Bartram in many ways too. I'd rather we recruit like crazy, and when we see a player is not great with disposal, THEN push them into tagging roles. If they tag, learn from the best, then adapt their game to include high disposal counts, then maybe you've found a player through a less-than-regular route. Ling is a good example of this. He was a tagger first who learned to be a ball-winner. Is there time left for Bell? Bartram? This may be a question the footy department will be answering come season's end.

So how are you in any way better off than having Bartram..?

Bell might not be the best decision maker, but he can consistently hit targets by foot.

His disposal is far superior to Bartram's, and he is equal in terms of doing the team things and working hard off the ball.

We know what Bartram gives us in that tagger position, so why not try something else for the rest of the year?

Bell might not be the best decision maker, but he can consistently hit targets by foot.

His disposal is far superior to Bartram's, and he is equal in terms of doing the team things and working hard off the ball.

We know what Bartram gives us in that tagger position, so why not try something else for the rest of the year?

if we are looking to daniel bell to improve our disposal then we really are screwed. his disposal is average and his awareness has been shown to be lacking.

if he wasnt able to do a consistent job down back minding someone what makes you think he can do it in the midfield??

bell has got through to this season on the basis that he is a first round pick. if he was a 2nd 3rd rounder he'd be gone by now. you cant be on a list for 5+ years and play 1 good season of football and expect to survive

bartram equally is under the pump. but he does soemthing nobody else on our list can do.

Before getting injured at the start of this year Bell was one of our standouts in the preseason. If he can get some of his engine back, and he goes back to the middle, we'll find out more.

If it all goes horribly wrong you try to manage the player, maybe give them a different role until they seem at home. My problem with having Bell just as a tagger is that if that's ALL he'll ever be, then maybe it's counter-productive to hang on to him. The same applies to Bartram in many ways too. I'd rather we recruit like crazy, and when we see a player is not great with disposal, THEN push them into tagging roles. If they tag, learn from the best, then adapt their game to include high disposal counts, then maybe you've found a player through a less-than-regular route. Ling is a good example of this. He was a tagger first who learned to be a ball-winner. Is there time left for Bell? Bartram? This may be a question the footy department will be answering come season's end.

1) thats never been in question tho DD has it? we've known he is fit, strong, fast and fearless. unforetunately you need to be able to do good thing with the red thing or do a good job of preventing others from enjoying it. remember he was recruited in the era of "athletes". we've now moved on to the era of "ball users"

2) completely agree with your second point though.

I often hear our coaches and administrators stressing the need to blood players and put game time into them to biuld up their strength, confidence, ability, etc. It is a sound philosophy.

Which is why I am completely bemused by what I can sense is a chorus of people on this message board calling for the delisting of Paul Wheatley at the end of the 2009 season.

He is a player who, granted, has taken time to develop, probably more time than most AFL players are offered. He is now into his ninth season, has played 132 games and in my opinion undoubtedly made significant improvements to his game in 2008 - he is a booming kick, a solid mark and a very dependable half-back flanker or wingman.

Wheatley is 28 years old. 28.

Am I wrong in thinking that the reason we want to blood games into all our youngsters is that hopefully they will become solid citizens during their peak years of football, just like Paul Wheatley has now become?

I think he has a huge amount still to offer for many more years at the club. But perhaps I am alone in this line of thinking. Or are there others out there in agreement with me on this?

Look forward to people's thoughts.

I believe so too, I think he is a hard working player and reliable player and his not appreciated enough for his skills. He is also capable of kicking long goals - but I think we are in the minority

If they tag, learn from the best, then adapt their game to include high disposal counts, then maybe you've found a player through a less-than-regular route. Ling is a good example of this. He was a tagger first who learned to be a ball-winner.

He actually was a full forward who learned to be a tagger who learned to be a midfielder.

Extraordinary effort I think.

He actually was a full forward who learned to be a tagger who learned to be a midfielder.

Extraordinary effort I think.

He actually was a full forward who learned to be a tagger who learned to be a midfielder. - lets make him full forward then before he goes.

I'm a long term Wheatley fan, and still think he has a lot to offer.

Because he hasn't played for a while, I think people forget how good he can be.

And if blokes like Guerra and Dew can play in premiership teams, then there's no reason a player like Wheatley couldn't when he is up and firing.

The problem is, with the young players still a number of years away, he won't be around to see it.

1) thats never been in question tho DD has it? we've known he is fit, strong, fast and fearless. unforetunately you need to be able to do good thing with the red thing or do a good job of preventing others from enjoying it. remember he was recruited in the era of "athletes". we've now moved on to the era of "ball users"

True enough. One thing some people forget is that Bell can be an excellent user of the ball. Certainly a lot better than many demons running around at the moment. His complete lack of footy nous is something we all hoped could be fixed by the coaching department. It says a lot about how bad his footy brain is when that's really his only fault as a player. Fast, good user, tough, courageous... he has the lot, just no grey matter for footy. In the era of "ball users" he would fit in quite well if only he had the peripherals.

He actually was a full forward who learned to be a tagger who learned to be a midfielder.

Extraordinary effort I think.

I stand corrected.

A player that could go either way for next year.

Deserves to play throughout the last 7 or 8 games to play for his career.

I agree with Doggo. Could easily see a contending club punting on him late in the ND or in the PSD.

True enough. One thing some people forget is that Bell can be an excellent user of the ball. Certainly a lot better than many demons running around at the moment. His complete lack of footy nous is something we all hoped could be fixed by the coaching department. It says a lot about how bad his footy brain is when that's really his only fault as a player. Fast, good user, tough, courageous... he has the lot, just no grey matter for footy. In the era of "ball users" he would fit in quite well if only he had the peripherals.

Is he a good user of the ball though? He's never struck me as such.

I would've thought awareness, peripheral vision and football nous were integral in being a good user of the footy.

Maybe its because he chooses the most obvious option and it usually is the right one?

Admittedly its been some years since I've seen Bell play a game where he had an impact on the outcome.