you're an idiot. he is great at chasing and running and tackling. that is one of the key features of his game at the moment.

i agree about dunn. if he played like that at afl level, id be stoked.

Deanox, for me this is THE most difficult question to ask and answer: who will develop, how much and over what period? Dunny was really good yesterday, but CAN he do this at AFL level? Jurrah was quietly BLOODY EXCITING -can he do it at AFL level? Miller worked his nuts off, provided a realiable target but did not convert well - he does this at AFL level.

Miller looks like a footballer and Newton doesn't. At the moment, they are both working very hard without the ball.

End of the day, neither of them cut it at team #16. They'll both be gone in 2 years.

Just because Miller got dropped does not mean the Dees don't think he can 'cut it.'

Petterd was dropped but I think he can be a great midfielder.

I really think people see being dropped as the worst form of rejection in the AFL; 'a kick in the guts' it may be, but not the end of the world, or career...

Jurrah: The story of the day for mine. As many here have already said, Jurrah was extremely impressive yesterday with his 4 goals and presence up forward. Definitely lived up to the hype from what i saw. Was also the first time i've seen him play and there's absolutely no doubt that with more strength and conditioning he is going to be special. Anyone who thinks otherwise after watching him yesterday is just foolish. His ability in the air, his leap, pace and lateral movement are all phenomenal, his kicking action is flawless, and everything he seemed to do with the ball was good. He looks so natural, like he could play footy with his eyes closed! With a couple of pre-seasons under his belt he really could set the AFL alight. Could be a lot closer to a debut than anyone at the club could ever have expected at this stage.

Actually, his kicking action reminded me a lot of Mark Williams at Hawthorn. Very easy, natural kicking action. Beautiful to watch.

Forgot to add, Dowse was the 23rd man (under the rule that allows a TAC cup player to play VFL) and was really impressive.

And Alex Silvagni is an absolute gun at VFL level. Played everywhere yesterday, was on Pask doing a pretty good job on him, then went to the ruck when Spencer came off, then capped his day off with a pack mark and goal. Too good for this level of footy IMO.

I thought Pask beat Silvagni early, but then lacked the supply after the early stages.

Really? I hardly noticed him. I did notice that he looked composed and assured when he had it. But I hardly saw him get it, and would have thought that he was still a while away.

To me, at least, every time Strauss touched it, he put it to the advantage of one of his team mates, usually by foot.

Newtons biggest problem is he doesn't read the play well at all. His timing is all out and despite his best efforts at laying tackles and chase his opponents he is far too slow (very little acceleration) to have any significant effect.

On top of that he really needs to hit the gym, has little chance of ever taking a contested mark with his frame.

Yeah, I've watched Newton over the last few seasons and had hoped he would bulk up a bit. I'm the same age and roughly his height and I've overtaken him in terms of muscle definition and I'd reckon strength. I go to the gym three times a week, but I'm not on any program dietry or weights wise, yet I'm sure as a professional AFL footballer, he would be. It's disappointing, because during 2007 I thought, if he could bulk up, he might have even become a stay at home full forward. He has the height. Apparently, that hasn't happened.

I thought Pask beat Silvagni early, but then lacked the supply after the early stages.

Yeah fair call, although i had Silvagni in my top 3 players on the ground after quarter time. Especially when he was moved further up the ground. Stiff not to get the BOG award to be honest. I reckon Miller got it on the back of a huge last quarter.

I reckon Miller got it on the back of a huge last quarter.

He got it because Phil Cleary was just dying to confirm that he is indeed turning 26 next month <_<

Seriously, how can this man get a gig on TV?

Not only is his voice annoying, but he is a complete moron.

I would have given Dunn the BOG award, or McKenzie. Both had the most consistent influence on the game, and were the catalysts in the last quarter when they won a lot of the ball at ground level.

He got it because Phil Cleary was just dying to confirm that he is indeed turning 26 next month <_<

Seriously, how can this man get a gig on TV?

Not only is his voice annoying, but he is a complete moron.

He gets a gig because he's been involved in VFA/VFL football for over 30 years. Premiership player and two-time premiership coach at Coburg, and as a former Coburg supporter prior to the ruination of the VFA, I had the pleasure of attending all 3 premierships that Phil was involved in.

Phil Cleary has an astute football brain, unlike your love child Brad Miller.

And your credentials Jaded?

hahaha hit a nerve did she?

For mine, Phil Cleary might have a lot of VFA / VFL experience, but it doesn't make him any less of a terrible commentator.

Horrible, just horrible...

he is stuck in the past mo64, just as his credentials are, and his opinions no longer hold any weight. i can't stand him as a football commentator. i like the work he does outside of football though.

He gets a gig because he's been involved in VFA/VFL football for over 30 years. Premiership player and two-time premiership coach at Coburg, and as a former Coburg supporter prior to the ruination of the VFA, I had the pleasure of attending all 3 premierships that Phil was involved in.

Phil Cleary has an astute football brain, unlike your love child Brad Miller.

And your credentials Jaded?

Hahaha, take it easy!

You can have a great involvement in AFL, and be a terrible commentator (hello to just about everyone working at MMM).

I have never commented on his involvement or indeed the impact he made to football at VFL level, I was just noting that he is a very very bad commentator IMO. His voice is grating, his comments are boring and his jokes are just lame. His interviewing techniques aren't much better.

Would I do a better job? probably not. That's why I'm not in the media :D

Phil Cleary has to be VFL's answer to Dougie Hawkins. Heaps of experience but absolutely reflects no nous when reading the play.

Cleary is in a time warp and struggles with what going on in the middle. No some posters are attached to him.

BTW, his interview this with Miller was poor and his starting question about Miller's age was for what reason?

It was as inappropriate as his interview of Michael Newton some weeks ago winning BOG and Phil just spoke about Jack Watts. Newton was not too impressed in the interview and rightly so.

Cleary is as relevant to the modern game as the drop kick.

Its no surprise they have him as boundary rider not in the commentary box anymore.

I wish we became a republic in '99, he'd make a fine President

hahaha hit a nerve did she?

For mine, Phil Cleary might have a lot of VFA / VFL experience, but it doesn't make him any less of a terrible commentator.

Horrible, just horrible...

Absolutely, because Phil Cleary's been commentating on VFA/VFL games for over 15 years, and whilst he hasn't got a silky voice like a Dennis Commetti, he knows what VFA/VFL football is all about.

For Cleary, the VFA competition was ruined with the introduction of AFL reserves teams. And I feel the same way. Whilst I followed the progess of the Melbourne players, I didn't support Sandringham, and I don't support Casey. And I can't support Coburg because they're aligned with Richmond, who I despise.

Cleary would care more about the players that aren't aligned with AFL clubs, than an AFL player that was dropped like Miller. He wouldn't have a clue what Miller has done in his AFL career.

For those who actually followed the VFA, it was compelling viewing when Cleary and Sam Kekovich where doing the special comments a few years back.

Phil Cleary has to be VFL's answer to Dougie Hawkins. Heaps of experience but absolutely reflects no nous when reading the play.

You have to have some football nous to be a successful coach, so your comparison of Cleary to Hawkins is ridiculous.

Work ethic isn't the be all and end all of football. After 100 games, you have to start questioning Miller's value to the team. Sure, he tries hard, but what value do we get from his efforts? He doesn't kick goals, he doesn't set up goals, he doesn't break open packs for the crumbers, he doesn't take the opposition's best backman. Out of his 100 games, Miller would have been lucky to be in our best 5 in ten.

As for Newton, unless he's given an extended run in the seniors to prove himself, we'll never know what he's capable of.

Oh dear. Whether you are talented like Ablett, Franklin or a have limited skills like a Miller or Presti, to succeed in AFL football individually or as a team your work ethic is vitally important. Talent alone wont carry through. Its what defines the great teams is their abililty to work hard both with and when they dont have the ball.

Miller will always be a valiant contributor who will rarely dominant games but at least you know he his on field work rate, contesting, athlieticism and leadership are rarely in doubt. His role will be superceded in two years time when better options hopefully mature and develop. But at least he can say at the end of his career that he gave his all. I dont think thats something Newton can do. Newton's biggest problem is above the shoulders. He can mark, he can kick (sometimes), he can do some good things on the field but mentally has not worked out what is required to succeed at AFL. Until he can demonstrate that he has the will and composure to consistently compete and dominate at VFL level then his opportunities at higher levels are going to be limited.

If Newton does actually show something at VFL level in the coming weeks he should be elevated to MFC and barring injury, suspension or a repeat of any further bog ordinary efforts should be given 4 weeks to strut his stuff. If he does not make it then at AFL level his future and contract at MFC is indeed uncertain.

You have to have some football nous to be a successful coach, so your comparison of Cleary to Hawkins is ridiculous.

Cleary's "nous" does not translate to the commentary box. Your post below vindicates it.

Absolutely, because Phil Cleary's been commentating on VFA/VFL games for over 15 years, and whilst he hasn't got a silky voice like a Dennis Commetti, he knows what VFA/VFL football is all about.

For Cleary, the VFA competition was ruined with the introduction of AFL reserves teams. .....

Cleary would care more about the players that aren't aligned with AFL clubs, than an AFL player that was dropped like Miller. He wouldn't have a clue what Miller has done in his AFL career.

The AFL/ VFL alignment happened 10 years ago and the fact he would not be aware of what an AFL listed player has done only shoots hole in your comment "he knows what VFA/VFL football is all about". He clearly doesn't.

Cleary's "nous" does not translate to the commentary box. Your post below vindicates it.

The AFL/ VFL alignment happened 10 years ago and the fact he would not be aware of what an AFL listed player has done only shoots hole in your comment "he knows what VFA/VFL football is all about". He clearly doesn't.

That depends on how you perceive the VFL. For people like Phil Cleary, and I'm sure KC from Casey and Barry from Beach Road, the VFL is a legitimate competition, not just a reserves competition for AFL players to regain form, in Miller's case.

Why would you expect Cleary to know everything about Miller, when Miller's rarely played at VFL level? Would you expect an AFL specialist commentator like Malcolm Blight to know everything about a mature aged player like Priddis when he entered the AFL?

Cleary is merely commentating on what is happening on the ground at the time, not it's relevance to an affiliated AFL club.

That depends on how you perceive the VFL. For people like Phil Cleary, and I'm sure KC from Casey and Barry from Beach Road, the VFL is a legitimate competition, not just a reserves competition for AFL players to regain form, in Miller's case.

Why would you expect Cleary to know everything about Miller, when Miller's rarely played at VFL level? Would you expect an AFL specialist commentator like Malcolm Blight to know everything about a mature aged player like Priddis when he entered the AFL?

Cleary is merely commentating on what is happening on the ground at the time, not it's relevance to an affiliated AFL club.

It is a legitimate competition where the AFL has two clubs that field their own teams and have no VFL affiliation. In addition a VFL side can have up to 12 AFL listed players playing. Is Phil aware of that? Miller has made a number of forays into the VFL over the years and I suspect he has played in one or two Sandy flags. Phil not aware of that either??? It makes your analogy with Malcolm Blight at best misplaced.

There is a reason why Phil is restricted to boundary riding given in the past "Cleary is merely commentating on what is happening on the ground at the time,..". He does not see much these days and clearly has not for a while.

Rhino, I don't think I've seen Brad out there playing for Sandy in any of those GF wins. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I reckon it's worth hearing Cleary's comments as a nostalgic link with the old days of the VFA.

Rhino, I don't think I've seen Brad out there playing for Sandy in any of those GF wins. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I reckon it's worth hearing Cleary's comments as a nostalgic link with the old days of the VFA.

JJC,

I think you are correct. While he may not have played in the GF he certainly played for Sandy at not too infrequent times over the course of his career. He should hardly be an unknown even to the most reclusive VFL commentator.

Cleary may be fine for the nostalgia in a footy flash backs segment but he provides little content when it comes to the state of the game. Since his retirement from football, Cleary has been a public figure as a VFL/VFA commentator and as a State MLA for the Coburg region. It was worked out then that Cleary had a big mouth with little substance from it. However, post his political career, his activism and lobbying efforts against domestic violence following a family tragedy are both notable and laudable.

Sorry if this has been posted

Highlights here