Thanks for the advice GRANDAD! I stick with my opinions thank you very much. You have said nothing to dissuade me.

Bobby, most of us were aiming our vitriol at petjud's assertion that Bruce's tackle made a statement, rather than Bruce's tackle as such.

Bobby, most of us were aiming our vitriol at petjud's assertion that Bruce's tackle made a statement, rather than Bruce's tackle as such.

Agree.

Just makes his post # 70 look ridiculous. Bobby would be the last person to work that out.

As I thought, not one reply, all going to take their ball and go home.........from now on I must remember to join in the bleating.....then I will be accepted as one of the crowd..........

I actually don't miss YM at all, apart from the odd giggle...........I personally think he puts some utter nonesense and then watches the hysteria grow.......they are having a vote on Demonology on whether to let him continue to post....he must be loving it.......what is the phrase......"no one is bigger than the game"..........

It is supposed to be a discussion board, but then as I said anyone that does not agree with the masses is looking for 'an argument'............oh dear.........

I might put my keyboard away for a while and let you all get back to crapping all over the players and the club.........

There is a difference between constructive criticism and mass bleating that can't be backed up either by fact, statistics, past records or actually watching a game without looking for something to bleat about.

We seem to forget that DB is the coach, I have only been a full time supporter for a couple of years, but I haven't seen DB even remotely look like dropping Bruce......now either he is completely wrong about the player or all the posters on here are....I think it is the latter because I doubt many posters have coached at the elite level.......unless you want to come out from behind your unsername and reveal your true identity.

I just get a bit peeved with the same targets being picked every week.......as if they are the designated whipping boys for supporters.......either than or Demonland has an aversion to the letter B......as in Bate, Bartram and Bruce

It would be nice to see support....one interesting thing is we seem not to have a new Maric this week as the new saviour....

perhaps some of the mass bleating over the last couple of weeks for his inclusion and Maric's performance on the weekend (I personally think he was trying too hard, after getting back in, and the harder he tried the worse it became)......has led to a bit of mass embaraseement and nobody wants to get caught again.

I have an opinion, I state it, if people don't agree with it, I don't particularly care, but then again when I don't agree with someone else's opinion I am either condescendinng or insulting........I have not taken offence and have not posted as such I have posted further in an attemp to further explain why I have an opinion...

obviously there is a double standard going on here...same as with the constant criticism of certain players........we ask for consistency from the players.it would be nice to see from the posters............

There's no double standard just different opinions, of which we are all allowed and should be able to state without being accused of being criminally disloyal......

There seems to be two extreme schools of thought when it comes to Bruce. Those that deem him "perfect" or "untouchable" or at least uncriticisable, for want of a better word, and are therefore regarded as stupid and weak by the other lot who in turn then get called "disloyal" and "bashers" for thinking that he isn't quite as good as he should or could be.

Both schools of thought are of course insane, because he is neither the perfect player nor the patsy, but he is having trouble with his disposal and I can't imagine anyone thinking otherwise.

Does that make him ineffective? No not necessarily, but it does certainly diminish his capacity to be influential on a game of football, and we need that from a player of his stature.

I understand the stats and respect those that see the level of his importance to the team in them. But to me offloading effectively is more than just hitting a team mate, and he has had a (increasing) tendency of putting people under pressure. Is he alone in this? Hell no, but he is a senior, highly paid player and that does factor into peoples thinking when a judgment is made.

No-one here (aside from the obvious) has ever abused Cameron Bruce, because criticising his game is not abuse and that would not be tolerated (he is suspended). Criticism and questioning, however is.

I am in complete agreement with you on the Maric-hoopla, I was waiting for the fall and it came with a thud and there was the predictable and sad knee jerk reactions of calling for the poor boys head. I don't like this, never have, never will. But you can't argue that Bruce is in the same boat as Maric. Age and experience blow that apart. So I don't think I can make it any simpler.

As for it being the same players week in week out, well maybe that is because of the way they are playing. Most people on here don't have agenda's or make personal attacks on our players (some do granted but not many) and I'm pretty sure that once all these guys pull on the jumper they all, no matter what, have our full and undivided support.

as if they are the designated whipping boys for supporters

You have not been here long enough to see what a real whipping boy copped a couple of years ago, but suffice to say wishing him injury and harm were not out of the equation.

The stuff Brad Miller copped then was nothing short of appalling, and I even wore abuse for sticking up for him.

This talk of Bruce is nothing more than that...talk, if it gets to that point it will be stopped, but as you said opinions are allowed, even if they make you want to scream bloody murder

but then again when I don't agree with someone else's opinion I am either condescendinng or insulting

Well, when I said I thought Warnock had a bad game, you told me that I needed to try to learn more about the game before I commented. That's condescending petjud.

I agree with some of what you say, like the Maric stuff. But when people disagree with you, it would be nice if you presented your side of the argument without resorting to claiming that they are stupid, lacking knowledge, hiding behind their username etc. If you could just bring up your points and have a discussion, it would be much nicer.

Well, when I said I thought Warnock had a bad game, you told me that I needed to try to learn more about the game before I commented. That's condescending petjud.

I agree with some of what you say, like the Maric stuff. But when people disagree with you, it would be nice if you presented your side of the argument without resorting to claiming that they are stupid, lacking knowledge, hiding behind their username etc. If you could just bring up your points and have a discussion, it would be much nicer.

even though I am small I have broad enough shoulders to stand up for myself.

I did try and point out my opinion on Warnock, I have been watching the game for quite a while but do not profess to be an expert.

If a full back is behind the full forward and can't even help him straighten his jumper without giving away a free kick and a team mate does not step into the hole to stop the full forward/forward leading onto a perfect kick.....then the full back will look ordinary...............my point is that Warnock is as only good as the rest of the defence/team around him.............I don't recall Mooney or Hawkins kicking 8 or 10 goals each at the game...........so Warnock must have been doing something right.......we could always blame Rivers (sorry constuctively criticise) as another poster did......I express my opinion and get howled down....if it does not follow the party line.........

at least I try and stay positive and supportive all the time............may have been a supporter for a short time but already sat through a season and a quarter of defeats.........but still turn up every week..

Everybody seems so quick to bag/criticise/deride a player's ability without taking into account the big picture...hence my comment about sitting high in the Ponsford.....also teaching my partner the nuances of the game............even she thought Warnock went OK from what she has seen in the past..........

as for the constant carping at Bartram...she was actually looking to punch the next poster......particularly when the news of his situation broke....even she understands you can't have a team of superstars you still need the worker ants..........

..was actually discussing this in work.........in Geelong has anybody ever seen Wojincski lay a tackle or put his body on the line going back.........his assets are his blinding speed a reasonable kick........don't see many criticise him...in fact him being left out of the Grand Final side was the reason they lost according some people

Don't worry, he's bored because Yze_Magic isn't here to argue with him.

I've already said that I will not be responding to him and feeding his need for an argument. We all have our opinions on players, good or bad, and we are all allowed to express them, as long as we do it in a respectful manner.

I have never ever abused Bruce, called him weak, pathetic etc... etc... I have always fully acknowledged how hard he works on the field, but I am not blind to his downfalls, and neither are most posters here. As a senior player, and a leader, he is likely to attract more criticism than most... that's part of the pitfalls of being an AFL player.

Jaded, I hope I'm very wrong here but your rudeness to me with your 'putdowns' has all the trademarks of you being an intellectual snob. You rarely reply to my questions and if you do manage to lower yourself, it is done INDIRECTLY as in your recent reply to your mate 'Queen C". ( She certainly sticks up for you doesn't she?) Please take on board that some of us already have University degrees and diplomas. You claim you never rubbish Bruce but apart from saying that he has good aerobic capacities you never find any other praise for him. How about coming off your high horse and answer my questions in my previous post to you. I guess this will test my hypothesis.

Jaded, I hope I'm very wrong here but your rudeness to me with your 'putdowns' has all the trademarks of you being an intellectual snob. You rarely reply to my questions and if you do manage to lower yourself, it is done INDIRECTLY as in your recent reply to your mate 'Queen C". ( She certainly sticks up for you doesn't she?) Please take on board that some of us already have University degrees and diplomas. You claim you never rubbish Bruce but apart from saying that he has good aerobic capacities you never find any other praise for him. How about coming off your high horse and answer my questions in my previous post to you. I guess this will test my hypothesis.

Ignore function. Use it.

If you choose not to use it, and read my posts, and you single me out again with personal attacks (or you attack Queen C, or any other poster for expressing their views in a non-aggressive manner), you will be suspended.

It's great that you're a Bruce fan and you want to defend him, but that should not cause others to feel as though they are being attacked for having differing views. You've been flogging the same horse for years... it's dead now... move on.

By the way, this is the last comment I will make to you publicly on this forum. If you want to continue this childish argument, you can PM me (but it's unlikely I'll reply).

As I thought, not one reply, all going to take their ball and go home.........from now on I must remember to join in the bleating.....then I will be accepted as one of the crowd..........

I actually don't miss YM at all, apart from the odd giggle...........I personally think he puts some utter nonesense and then watches the hysteria grow.......they are having a vote on Demonology on whether to let him continue to post....he must be loving it.......what is the phrase......"no one is bigger than the game"..........

It is supposed to be a discussion board, but then as I said anyone that does not agree with the masses is looking for 'an argument'............oh dear.........

I might put my keyboard away for a while and let you all get back to crapping all over the players and the club.........

'petjud', don't put your keyboard away. You breathe a bit of SANITY into this forum. I wonder if the posters on Essendon's forum continually poke muck at its older players such as Lloyd and Lucas? I really doubt it. I guess YM has poisoned the minds of many here with his bleatings.

it is not 'anyone' criticising Bruce, YM starts it and then everybody joins in, hate to have their own opinion it may attract criticiism from other posters......

Yet another swipe at the other Dees supporters on here, and I think it's a rubbish call.

First, some of Y_M's 'opinions' (aka trolls) have received more criticism than all other comments combined.

Second, if you're arguing that all criticism of Bruce's recent is because Y_M has espoused a negative view of Bruce for years I'm not sure how you can account for recent criticism of Bruce's form from those not on Demonland (ie. Jason Dunstall).

Are you suggesting that Jason Dunstall subscribes to Y_M's twitter feed or something?

the thing you will notice on this board, that if you make an opinion that actually makes sense rather than bleating or baying, a swift answer is not forthcoming.......or you get called condescending........

Someone suggested your tone was condescending not because you raised an opinion (sensical or otherwise) but because you took a personal swipe at another poster. You've also taken swipes at Demonland as a whole, once again suggesting you regard most (all?) others on here as inferior.

Diversity of opinion is great - it'd otherwise be a very boring forum. However, personal attacks are not.

petjud and others there is a dangerous trend especially amongst the press. That is they for reasons best known to themselves set themselves above many who also watch and observe the game. Somehow they are afforded elistist stauts are far from reuke.Often they are as amiss as the rest of us. Why do I mention this ? Because they will then applaud or call to question the various travels of all those that pass as footy players. Strangely so do we.

We here in forums will question the various aspects and abilities of players . In particular we will here call to task those that parade in Red and Blue.

Many of us..I expect yourself included may sit in stands and observe and form our own opinions for some its a recent thing , for others its a many generational past-time. Thing is I dont think any of us get it perfect as we are only observing one facet of a die in action.

The press is paid . They need to make comment and do it in such a afashion as to make it seem above us. Seldom is this really the case other than they invariably DO watch more games than us and often games we would have no intersest in.

Dont be sucked in. Give cautious credence to your own eyes and how you accredit players. We as a Demon whole probably give more time to tearing apart how our beloved are fairing than any who are paid. But we are biased

The funny thing is we always seem to see different things . So too do the media. They are only human with same foibles as us. They dont always getit right.

There's no double standard just different opinions, of which we are all allowed and should be able to state without being accused of being criminally disloyal......

There seems to be two extreme schools of thought when it comes to Bruce. Those that deem him "perfect" or "untouchable" or at least uncriticisable, for want of a better word, and are therefore regarded as stupid and weak by the other lot who in turn then get called "disloyal" and "bashers" for thinking that he isn't quite as good as he should or could be.

Both schools of thought are of course insane, because he is neither the perfect player nor the patsy, but he is having trouble with his disposal and I can't imagine anyone thinking otherwise.

Does that make him ineffective? No not necessarily, but it does certainly diminish his capacity to be influential on a game of football, and we need that from a player of his stature.

I understand the stats and respect those that see the level of his importance to the team in them. But to me offloading effectively is more than just hitting a team mate, and he has had a (increasing) tendency of putting people under pressure. Is he alone in this? Hell no, but he is a senior, highly paid player and that does factor into peoples thinking when a judgment is made.

No-one here (aside from the obvious) has ever abused Cameron Bruce, because criticising his game is not abuse and that would not be tolerated (he is suspended). Criticism and questioning, however is.

I am in complete agreement with you on the Maric-hoopla, I was waiting for the fall and it came with a thud and there was the predictable and sad knee jerk reactions of calling for the poor boys head. I don't like this, never have, never will. But you can't argue that Bruce is in the same boat as Maric. Age and experience blow that apart. So I don't think I can make it any simpler.

As for it being the same players week in week out, well maybe that is because of the way they are playing. Most people on here don't have agenda's or make personal attacks on our players (some do granted but not many) and I'm pretty sure that once all these guys pull on the jumper they all, no matter what, have our full and undivided support.

That's a great post QueenC. Best one of the entire thread IMO !