Yep...agree.. Hampson becomes a good 'sacrifice' You can bet Carlton are thinking along these 'forward thinking' terms. They are really much better at this game. We need to learn..( and fast )

We need a VISY.

We hold a few better cards this year though. Warnock's brother plays for Melbourne, he will hav ethe first ruck at Melbourne, we can offer him more money then Carlton (at least legally), and have the first pick in the PSD. If Warnock goes to Carlton, then the AFL would have to investigate their cap. There is absolutely no way they could pay Warnock that much more than Melbourne to bypass the Dees in the PSD.

Good points Pants.

The other issues is that Warnock wants to come home and also a career to be a front line ruckman. He cant do that at Carlton with Kruezer.

Carlton are fishing for another experienced AFL player ATM. They have Judd and Fevola on big bickies. They will have to plan to pay players like Kruezer, Gibbs and Murphy more at their next contract review. I cannot see how they have scope to pay too much more than MFC would offer without puntcturing the salary cap.

Good points Pants.

The other issues is that Warnock wants to come home and also a career to be a front line ruckman. He cant do that at Carlton with Kruezer.

Carlton are fishing for another experienced AFL player ATM. They have Judd and Fevola on big bickies. They will have to plan to pay players like Kruezer, Gibbs and Murphy more at their next contract review. I cannot see how they have scope to pay too much more than MFC would offer without puntcturing the salary cap.

Sure. They're good points along with Pants. It may not be in the scope of the salary cap. The catch might be what lies out of football. Don't ask me what it is....

I could see Warnock and PJ making a pretty good combo

Warnock wil only get stronger and fitter

I would rather Warnock and Jamar make the ruck combo with PJ a roaming CHF, and pinch hitting as a ruck when we get an injury. I think PJ would kill them in that roll

I would rather Warnock and Jamar make the ruck combo with PJ a roaming CHF, and pinch hitting as a ruck when we get an injury. I think PJ would kill them in that roll

problem is.. not really enough room for al lof Warnock.. PJ.. and Russian.. not with a few kids looming.

PJ can ruck a little. but also very handy.. Jamar possibly a little better as outright ruck.. totally useless otherwise.. PJ can adequately releive Warnock.. and still be usefull in a 22 lineup.. Jamar's time has come ..and gone !!

If we secure Warnock then we dont need to keep both Jamar and PJ. We should trade either one of them. I actually think PJ may have greater interest from other Clubs than Jamar. Third round at best.

I am actually hoping Spnecer kicks on in the next year or so.

If we secure Warnock then we dont need to keep both Jamar and PJ. We should trade either one of them. I actually think PJ may have greater interest from other Clubs than Jamar. Third round at best.

Trade Jamar. 2nd rucks need to be able to play football, this is why PJ is such an asset, Jamar is a complete waste of space unless he is rucking, having him playing under Warnock we'd essentially have 21 players in our team for all about 5 minutes a quarter.

I'll take a pick 90 for Jamar over pick 40 for PJ any day of the week.

PJ is a gun, no way are we trading him mate. can almost bet anything on it

If we secure Warnock then we dont need to keep both Jamar and PJ. We should trade either one of them. I actually think PJ may have greater interest from other Clubs than Jamar. Third round at best.

I am actually hoping Spnecer kicks on in the next year or so.

PJ can ruck just as good and have an impact around the ground. Trading him would be a mistake.

PJ can ruck just as good

Im no fan of Jamar but thats bollocks, if that were true why was Jamar No 1 ruck all year despite PJ's superior football ability?

Im no fan of Jamar but thats bollocks, if that were true why was Jamar No 1 ruck all year despite PJ's superior football ability?

I would hardly call Jamar our No.1 ruck all year. In fact, White played more games than him.

PJ plays his own role. Jamar rucks because he's useless anywhere else.

PJ, if he played under Charman, Cox, Lade, or Hille would be considered the best backup ruckman in the league within a couple of years, if he isn't that already. Backup ruckmen aren't supposed to win half as many taps while getting 6 possessions. They're supposed to be a damaging part of the 22 as often as possible. PJ put his stamp on PLENTY of games this year. And best of all it's not the skills that wax and wane that make him good. It's his work ethic.

PJ plays his own role. Jamar rucks because he's useless anywhere else.

Jamar rucks because PJ is not good enough at rucking to play 1st ruck. As I said Im no fan of Jamar, there is no way in the world PJ is a better at rucking than him though.

especially now Carlton have been given the green light by the AFL to undermine the salary cap by Pratt "employing" them at Visy so watch the boo boys buy anyone they want

What are you referring to? Did I miss something? If this is true I will never spend another cent on anything AFL related ever again. Unlike the criminal Pratt I work hard for my money, I'm no THEIF. Why am I wasting my money supporting a struggling club when Pratt can use the $350million he STOLE OFF EVERY ONE OF US to prop up those scumbags. There better not be any truth in this :angry:

PJ, if he played under Charman, Cox, Lade, or Hille would be considered the best backup ruckman in the league within a couple of years, if he isn't that already. Backup ruckmen aren't supposed to win half as many taps while getting 6 possessions. They're supposed to be a damaging part of the 22 as often as possible. PJ put his stamp on PLENTY of games this year. And best of all it's not the skills that wax and wane that make him good. It's his work ethic.

alas..not everyone quite gets this

PJ, if he played under Charman, Cox, Lade, or Hille would be considered the best backup ruckman in the league within a couple of years, if he isn't that already. Backup ruckmen aren't supposed to win half as many taps while getting 6 possessions. They're supposed to be a damaging part of the 22 as often as possible. PJ put his stamp on PLENTY of games this year. And best of all it's not the skills that wax and wane that make him good. It's his work ethic.

Playing under another ruckman does not make you a better ruckman. One of the areas MFC has been appalling in is the ruckwork and big man area. The demise of White has only highlight how 3rd rate we are in this area as we are in many other areas. Both Jamar and PJ are significant NQRs. Its amazing how good a back up ruckman PJ that he cant crack as the No 1 ruckman against Jamar.

As far as being a damaging part of the 22, I have yet to see PJ in any position he has been tried in put his stamp on any game. I have not seen him excel in any significant ruck contest where he has blunted an opposition ruck. We 3 and 19 this year and in some games hideously behind the pace of the opposition sides. He has a lot of nice to haves without excelling in any one of the areas he really needs to. You painting him up as Adam Goodes and unfortunately he aint. You know what I admire his work ethic. But then again I admired Simon Godfrey's work ethic and Nathan Brown's work ethic. Problem was it just does not cover or gloss over the deficiencies.

Playing under another ruckman does not make you a better ruckman.

What ?? Surely some of the best on the job training you will ever get is to learn form another, especially if they are perceived as your peers

One of the areas MFC has been appalling in is the ruckwork and big man area. The demise of White has only highlight how 3rd rate we are in this area as we are in many other areas. Both Jamar and PJ are significant NQRs. Its amazing how good a back up ruckman PJ that he cant crack as the No 1 ruckman against Jamar.

No one is espousing that he ( pj) be the #1, ..the role of the #2 is different..more of a rounded , jack of all.. more the traditional follower

The only Reason PJ wasn't used as our No1 ruckman is we need a tall target up forward, unfortunate for PJ the ball hardly travel into our forward 50m. This is the first year both Jamar and PJ have been given good ground time, PJ became our best big man and Jamar showed in patches that he can compete as an AFL ruckman, like most of his team mates though these patches were few and far between. Anyway Ruckman are over rated, look at the top four teams not a dominate ruckman in any of them, Ottens is the closest the others just compete well in the contest.

What are you referring to? Did I miss something? If this is true I will never spend another cent on anything AFL related ever again. Unlike the criminal Pratt I work hard for my money, I'm no THEIF. Why am I wasting my money supporting a struggling club when Pratt can use the $350million he STOLE OFF EVERY ONE OF US to prop up those scumbags. There better not be any truth in this :angry:

Judd has been employed by Vissy as their "Environmental Officer/Ambassador (or whatever)" for $100k's of bucks. And the AFL have signed off on the deal as OK. Go figure. :angry:

What ?? Surely some of the best on the job training you will ever get is to learn form another, especially if they are perceived as your peers

After four years under White, PJ is where he is. An NQR back up ruckman in a side screaming for rucking competency.

No one is espousing that he ( pj) be the #1, ..the role of the #2 is different..more of a rounded , jack of all.. more the traditional follower

Why not? Because he is not good enough to unseat Jamar who is at best a battler in the ruck. A ruckman is No2 because he is not good enough to be No 1..period. Often many sides often rotate a big man on/off the bench. Nothing different about the roles.

The only Reason PJ wasn't used as our No1 ruckman is we need a tall target up forward, unfortunate for PJ the ball hardly travel into our forward 50m. This is the first year both Jamar and PJ have been given good ground time, PJ became our best big man and Jamar showed in patches that he can compete as an AFL ruckman, like most of his team mates though these patches were few and far between. Anyway Ruckman are over rated, look at the top four teams not a dominate ruckman in any of them, Ottens is the closest the others just compete well in the contest.

Rubbish. If PJ was good enough he would have been first choice ruckman. Why have a "tall target up forward" when you have weakened an already brittle midfield. Even when used up forward, PJ had little impact. Miller had more impact under difficult circumstances. And on the basis of the greater game time for both Jamar and PJ it merely proved what was suspected all along. Both are limited and no wonder the Club is going out to get a capable bigman from Freo. Ruckman overrated? Its seems ours are on this site. As part of a successful side you need ruckman that if they cant dominate can consistently and regularly nullify the oppositions first use of the ball. They should be also able to use their frame to protect, block and provide passage for midfielders to contest and hopefully win the ball. Ours cant do that by a long shot.

Rubbish. If PJ was good enough he would have been first choice ruckman. Why have a "tall target up forward" when you have weakened an already brittle midfield. Even when used up forward, PJ had little impact. Miller had more impact under difficult circumstances. And on the basis of the greater game time for both Jamar and PJ it merely proved what was suspected all along. Both are limited and no wonder the Club is going out to get a capable bigman from Freo. Ruckman overrated? Its seems ours are on this site. As part of a successful side you need ruckman that if they cant dominate can consistently and regularly nullify the oppositions first use of the ball. They should be also able to use their frame to protect, block and provide passage for midfielders to contest and hopefully win the ball. Ours cant do that by a long shot.

Agree 100% Rhino. Posters on here seem to be wearing thier rose coloured glasses when it comes to our ruck.

Jamar, while being decent in the ruck, is rubbish around the ground and just shows how bad we have it when he is considered number 1. He takes 1 or 2 decent marks a game and people think he is coming along nicely. Rubbish.

PJ, while being a fave of mine. Has not cemented a position on the ground anywhere. To me he looks lost when playing up forward. He has the size and the pace to be a great full forward, but even when we are crying out for one he can't quite cut it.

His rucking is average, but acceptable for a 2nd choice.

Personally, If we get R.Warnock, I would trade Jamar. I think we could get a late 3rd round pick for him.

That makes Warnock 1 and P.J 2nd ruck. If one gets injured then we can either bring in Meeson. or Elevate Spencer.

I know that people are going to say Meeson is [censored]. but If you really think we are going to finish above bottom 4 next year then you are dreaming. Therfore we could give him a go before Delisting. Its a chance I would be willing to make.

Just out of intrest, I read somewhere that Spencer wants to go home? I dont know where his home is or if this is true at all but if anyone could give some info.

Whatever happens, we can't be basing any decision-making on our ruckmen situation on the abilities of PJ and Jamar to play up forward. Neither of them are capable in the slightest of playing as a tall forward.

Many seem to be under some misaprehension, or dare I suggest delusion that we are going to be able to go from Dudds to Studs overnight with some wholesale rejuvenation of the list. This plainly cant happen, even if we wanted it to.

As it happens without much effort we've already lightened the load by four. There is a very good chance a rookie or three will be 'talked" to and still a chance that another senior ( possibly two ) may yet feel the wrath of a disenchanted Bailey come October 13.

We arent blessed with limitless Rucks at present, hence the urgency of obtaining someone such as the topic of this thread. Having said that its quite realistic to think that one of Jamar/ PJ may yet see the door. The answer is in the idea of who can fill in for a year until someone else is obtained or developed, whilst at the same time earning an honest quid on the ground ?

Who votes..the dark horse Meesen ? cant see any hands..not surprising

who thinks PJ ? well I for one

who Jamar ?? work it out amongst yourselves.

Im under no illusions if PJ cant step up..he too will be gone end of next season

Ultra dark horse...as some think.. possibly Spencer might pop up.. but sanity suggests it wi be later in next year rather than earlier ..if at all.

Still need a pinch hitter.

PJ not able to play forward?? laughable..obviously not enough viewings of him at Zebbieland

PJ not able to play forward?? laughable..obviously not enough viewings of him at Zebbieland

Yeah P.J has played well for the Zebras. As has Simon Godfrey, Steven Armstrong, Chris Lamb, Etc, Etc.

I have seen glimpses of P.j playing well in the forward line but never for a whole match or over a couple of weeks.

I always get excited at the start of the match seeing him up there. And as soon as the ball is bounce he runs up to the middle or wing, leaving Maric or Wonna there.

I would love for him to be played as a full forward for a whole match. It looks like an obvious decision to me. Obviously the coaches know otherwise.

After four years under White, PJ is where he is. An NQR back up ruckman in a side screaming for rucking competency.

And Jamar has been there since 2003. 2 years longer than PJ.