Yeah hes finally stood up after being pushed up to 4th... after all the grewats knocked his lack of leadership in hiding away @ 5... but you keep on with your fantasies.

everyone else is wrong again, even chappell & lillee.

And where he has batted has nothing to do with lack of leadership but are reflections of the dire state of cricketers around him.

As for fantasies I can't think of a poster whose contributions so accurately and aptly match his username. Completely delusional and persistently lowbrow. I now realise the sound reasons some time ago why I put you on the Ignore list.

Appalling stuff up with Khawaja. It's inexplicable that the 3rd umpire could not conclude the ball did not hit the bat.

Amused by all the England supporters who claim in response that they were also wronged by other decisions (all of which were 50/50 at best).

The only two howlers so far have been Broad given not out when he was clearly out, and Khawaja given out when he was clearly not out, both in England's favour.

How many questionable decisions equal one howler?

And where he has batted has nothing to do with lack of leadership but are reflections of the dire state of cricketers around him.

As for fantasies I can't think of a poster whose contributions so accurately and aptly match his username. Completely delusional and persistently lowbrow. I now realise the sound reasons some time ago why I put you on the Ignore list.

its a reflection of both... its a refection of bad recent past leadership both on & off field, that has caused a breakdown in team harmony & comradeship,,, which is now under repair. but the result was a total loss of self belief in individuals & the loss of any remaining momentum handed down from the 'Tugga' era, leading into the last 8 or so years.

All this was compounded buy the retirements of greats who papered over any cracks of weak leadership since Tugga.

Amused by all the England supporters who claim in response that they were also wronged by other decisions (all of which were 50/50 at best).

The only two howlers so far have been Broad given not out when he was clearly out, and Khawaja given out when he was clearly not out, both in England's favour.

How many questionable decisions equal one howler?

Agree Maurie. They have been the two major howlers. I would think what has happened to Rogers off a Swann full toss has merit also.

its a reflection of both... its a refection of bad recent past leadership both on & off field, that has caused a breakdown in team harmony & comradeship,,, which is now under repair. but the result was a total loss of self belief in individuals & the loss of any remaining momentum handed down from the 'Tugga' era, leading into the last 8 or so years.

All this was compounded buy the retirements of greats who papered over any cracks of weak leadership since Tugga.

And what your referring to is a process that has gone on for some time. I am not sure how its been slated home to Clarke though who in fact has flown the flag admirably with the bat and with a debilitating injury. The other issue is that it not just leadership but the quality of the talent pool in this country. It's a dream to fully replace the list of greats that retired but we have not had close to the calibre.

And FWIW, when you had the side at Waughs disposal that he had, leadership is far easier. And Waugh was not without his weakness and there were serious issues under his tenure too.

great day for the boys

very happy for rogers to set us up with a steady openers take the shine off the ball innings

now lets hope golden balls and junior golden balls can set this game up for warner and haddin to squash a tiring attack

it will give the bowlers so much to work with. the first hour will set the tone for the rest of the match.

And what your referring to is a process that has gone on for some time. I am not sure how its been slated home to Clarke though who in fact has flown the flag admirably with the bat and with a debilitating injury. The other issue is that it not just leadership but the quality of the talent pool in this country. It's a dream to fully replace the list of greats that retired but we have not had close to the calibre.

And FWIW, when you had the side at Waughs disposal that he had, leadership is far easier. And Waugh was not without his weakness and there were serious issues under his tenure too.

I just hit the wrong keyboard key, & lost my reply... damn

I just don't get the negativity surrounding pup. He's a gun batsman who leads by example and is tactically spot on. He can't bat for the other players and no amount of motivation is going to make an ounce of difference if a batsman hasn't got it.

Who cares about his personality or what he does outside cricket? Playing personalities is a futile exercise and pointless. Too much is made of that stuff. It is a team game made up of various individual performances. A captain is limited with his influence. The batting order picks itself and bowling changes are often 'no-brainers' (the same goes for field settings) I'd bet Clarke would love McGrath and Warne at his disposal.

There's not much a captain can do if the cattle isn't there. Thankfully we've set ourselves up to win this match on the back of .... Clarke himself (although the Rogers knock was very good)

By the way, Smith is exceptionally lucky to be still there. He could easily have been out at nought and survived 2 other close calls before he'd reached 26. The last one was out except England had run out of referrals. Just adding a bit of perspective for those who might be interested

I just don't get the negativity surrounding pup. He's a gun batsman who leads by example and is tactically spot on. He can't bat for the other players and no amount of motivation is going to make an ounce of difference if a batsman hasn't got it.

[...]

By the way, Smith is exceptionally lucky to be still there. He could easily have been out at nought and survived 2 other close calls before he'd reached 26. The last one was out except England had run out of referrals. Just adding a bit of perspective for those who might be interested

I largely agree with you on both counts.

I just don't get the negativity surrounding pup. He's a gun batsman who leads by example and is tactically spot on. He can't bat for the other players and no amount of motivation is going to make an ounce of difference if a batsman hasn't got it.

Who cares about his personality or what he does outside cricket? Playing personalities is a futile exercise and pointless. Too much is made of that stuff. It is a team game made up of various individual performances. A captain is limited with his influence. The batting order picks itself and bowling changes are often 'no-brainers' (the same goes for field settings) I'd bet Clarke would love McGrath and Warne at his disposal.

There's not much a captain can do if the cattle isn't there. Thankfully we've set ourselves up to win this match on the back of .... Clarke himself (although the Rogers knock was very good)

By the way, Smith is exceptionally lucky to be still there. He could easily have been out at nought and survived 2 other close calls before he'd reached 26. The last one was out except England had run out of referrals. Just adding a bit of perspective for those who might be interested

theres no negativity about Clark as a batsmen, Macca.. but thats got nothing to do with being a captain...

you really don't get it, what effect a great captain can have on players outputs, & team outputs, the same as coaches... leadership is Every thing.

I'm realising most people just cannot understand 'the world' that is different than their own 'personal lives' world... the same people, I imagine, could also lack empathy & sympathetic traits as well...

maybe thats why great leadership is a rarity... & to be valued when found.

dee-luded, your opinion of Clarke is misguided, ill-informed, and just plain wrong.

dee-luded, your opinion of Clarke is misguided, ill-informed, and just plain wrong.

sorry t_u, its not.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/gb/manchester/m1-2/daily-weather-forecast/329260

theres no negativity about Clark as a batsmen, Macca.. but thats got nothing to do with being a captain...

you really don't get it, what effect a great captain can have on players outputs, & team outputs, the same as coaches... leadership is Every thing.

I'm realising most people just cannot understand 'the world' that is different than their own 'personal lives' world... the same people, I imagine, could also lack empathy & sympathetic traits as well...

maybe thats why great leadership is a rarity... & to be valued when found.

How are you so sure that Clarke isn't already a great captain? I'm not going to call him a great captain yet but he's doing a lot better than many want to give him credit for. The captaincy seems to have enhanced his batting as well. He's our one shining light and you keep looking for faults. Most people I speak to have nothing but praise for his innovative captaincy.

Only Bradman could improve this team to be a possible great one and even then he'd have to hog the strike! (which I'm sure he'd be quite capable of doing) He'd probably have to bring O'Reilly and Miller along as well so that we'd be assured of capturing 20 wickets.

If we win this Test the England camp will be feeling more than a little uneasy.

How are you so sure that Clarke isn't already a great captain? I'm not going to call him a great captain yet but he's doing a lot better than many want to give him credit for. The captaincy seems to have enhanced his batting as well. He's our one shining light and you keep looking for faults. Most people I speak to have nothing but praise for his innovative captaincy.

Only Bradman could improve this team to be a possible great one and even then he'd have to hog the strike! (which I'm sure he'd be quite capable of doing) He'd probably have to bring O'Reilly and Miller along as well so that we'd be assured of capturing 20 wickets.

If we win this Test the England camp will be feeling more than a little uneasy.

because those playing under his leadership are playing worse than they were. we all seen & heard of the stories about clark falling out with this one, & that one, you don't hear this about other greats.

& I know as well if I were in their, I wouldn't like his ways either, & I don't from where I sit now.. so my life experiences as well tell me.

then ontop of that you have the likes of Chapelli, & others, saying things about his choice of where to bat in the lineup.. finally after public media pressure from past legends, he now changes. he should have been at 4 as soon as Punter was retired.

you keep saying & believing its only talent... when its not... its about the belief & the desire to perform above yourself,,, that grows from the love of what it is your fighting for. where the passion stems from.

the team harmony is all about fostering this, & creating the environment to allow players to be their best.

this is whats gone missing in the last few years.

& with it the desire, & the results have flatulated like a deflating baloon.

because those playing under his leadership are playing worse than they were. we all seen & heard of the stories about clark falling out with this one, & that one, you don't hear this about other greats.

& I know as well if I were in their, I wouldn't like his ways either, & I don't from where I sit now.. so my life experiences as well tell me.

then ontop of that you have the likes of Chapelli, & others, saying things about his choice of where to bat in the lineup.. finally after public media pressure from past legends, he now changes. he should have been at 4 as soon as Punter was retired.

you keep saying & believing its only talent... when its not... its about the belief & the desire to perform above yourself,,, that grows from the love of what it is your fighting for. where the passion stems from.

the team harmony is all about fostering this, & creating the environment to allow players to be their best.

this is whats gone missing in the last few years.

& with it the desire, & the results have flatulated like a deflating baloon.

Ok, let's agree to disagree.

C'mon Aussies! (I'm sure we'd agree on that one yeah?)

Great 150 Michael Clarke, now lets keep it going!

Shame Smith couldn't go on for his first 100, but it brings Warner to the crease who I reckon might start this series with a bang!

theres no negativity about Clark as a batsmen, Macca.. but thats got nothing to do with being a captain...

you really don't get it, what effect a great captain can have on players outputs, & team outputs, the same as coaches... leadership is Every thing.

I'm realising most people just cannot understand 'the world' that is different than their own 'personal lives' world... the same people, I imagine, could also lack empathy & sympathetic traits as well...

maybe thats why great leadership is a rarity... & to be valued when found.

If anyone does not have a clue it's you. FMD, it's a suffocating bubble you live in.

Clarke is giving another Captaincy 101 performance and he gets supported by Smith 20/20 stupidity on 89 and Warners absolute brainless.

But it's all Clarke's fault.

The dialogue on Clarke's leadership issues with jazza is some of most witless and gormless discussion on this long thread. ( And that includes WYL vacuous contributions).

Great 150 Michael Clarke, now lets keep it going!

Shame Smith couldn't go on for his first 100, but it brings Warner to the crease who I reckon might start this series with a bang!

Smith left a century go begging with beach cricket shot. Dumb cricket. Wrecked the balance of the innings.

And Warner must have learnt how to work the DRS off Philip Hughes. What was he thinking?

And Michael Clarke leading the way......

He will need to get a 200 to make up for the some of the brain fades before him

We need to bat another session to get 500.

I reckon we have seen the best of the wicket to bat on.

Lyon must be licking his lips. Australia finally hits a reasonable score to defend and pitch is a turner and will crumble.

Lunch Day 2.

Australia 5/392

M. Clarke 168*

S. Smith 89

C. Rogers 84

G. Swann 4/103 (31)

T. Bresnan 1/80 (26)

J. Trott 0/6 (1)

Despite the losses of Smith & Warner we're still in a pretty good position. Anytime you bat first and make 400+ it's pretty rare that you'll loose, but seeing as we're after the win lets hope Clarke, Haddin & the tale can take us to 500+ by batting into the final session.

And it's nearly all over in Africa

Australia A 1st Innings 146

N. Maddinson 88

B. Hendricks 5/52 (9.5)

South Africa A 1st Innings 356

R. Rossouw 115*

F. Ahmed 4/80 (17.4)

Australia A 2nd Innings 277

N. Maddinson 90

S. Harmer 8/87 (31.1)

South Africa A 2nd Innings 0/27 (Target 68)

D. Elgar 15*

F. Ahmed 0/6 (2)

But at least Maddinson and Fawad Ahmed have kept pressure on our main squad with their performances.

Smith left a century go begging with beach cricket shot. Dumb cricket. Wrecked the balance of the innings.

And Warner must have learnt how to work the DRS off Philip Hughes. What was he thinking?

And Michael Clarke leading the way......

He will need to get a 200 to make up for the some of the brain fades before him

We need to bat another session to get 500.

I reckon we have seen the best of the wicket to bat on.

Lyon must be licking his lips. Australia finally hits a reasonable score to defend and pitch is a turner and will crumble.

Not wrong RR, that was one of the most bizzare DRS's I've ever seen. Warner copping it big time on twitter from the likes of Dean Jones and Ryan Campbell.

Smith's was a waste. Rogers dismissal was a loss of concerntration however Smith's was a brain fade up there with Warne when he was on 99, although at least Warne has the excuse of being a bowler and not a batsman.

500 will put us in a real strong position and Lyon will need to bowl well, because if he struggles in his first few tests back the likes of Agar & Fawad Ahmed will be knocking on the door.

Not wrong RR, that was one of the most bizzare DRS's I've ever seen. Warner copping it big time on twitter from the likes of Dean Jones and Ryan Campbell.

Smith's was a waste. Rogers dismissal was a loss of concerntration however Smith's was a brain fade up there with Warne when he was on 99, although at least Warne has the excuse of being a bowler and not a batsman.

500 will put us in a real strong position and Lyon will need to bowl well, because if he struggles in his first few tests back the likes of Agar & Fawad Ahmed will be knocking on the door.

We get 450 and Lyon gets match figures of (minimum) 6/150 and we'll win the match. All the quicks need to contribute but we're already in the box seat.

Clarke really knows how to go on with it after reaching 3 figures hey? He's just relentless and puts so much value on his wicket.

Maddinson has done very well in the latest Australia A game. Still only 21 years old and a big prospect. Might he get a call up to the Ashes squad? Inverarity did say that players could be added.

We get 450 and Lyon gets match figures of (minimum) 6/150 and we'll win the match. All the quicks need to contribute but we're already in the box seat.

Clarke really knows how to go on with it after reaching 3 figures hey? He's just relentless and puts so much value on his wicket.

Maddinson has done very well in the latest Australia A game. Still only 21 years old and a big prospect. Might he get a call up to the Ashes squad? Inverarity did say that players could be added.

And he's just added a wicket to his match figures to go with the runs, so he can do it all that kid!

Loving the way Clark's batting the last 2.5 years really since he got the captains role. He's taken his game to another level that like him or not, he's one of our best batsmen ever.

Wonder if our murder of part time spinners have role to play also? (Smith, Warner, Clarke)

If anyone does not have a clue it's you. FMD, it's a suffocating bubble you live in.

Clarke is giving another Captaincy 101 performance and he gets supported by Smith 20/20 stupidity on 89 and Warners absolute brainless.

But it's all Clarke's fault.

The dialogue on Clarke's leadership issues with jazza is some of most witless and gormless discussion on this long thread. ( And that includes WYL vacuous contributions).

righto rhino you really got no idea about these things you won't even listen to test legends. no ones sayin he can't captain, he's just shitat it.

but he may learn... unlike yourself.

Edited August 2, 201311 yr by dee-luded

And Australia A have gone down by 7 wickets inside three days.

Australia A 1st Innings 146

N. Maddinson 88

B. Hendricks 5/52 (9.5)

South Africa A 1st Innings 356

R. Rossouw 115*

F. Ahmed 4/80 (17.4)

Australia A 2nd Innings 277

N. Maddinson 90

S. Harmer 8/87 (31.1)

South Africa A 2nd Innings 3/71 (Target 68)

S. Van Zyl 23

N. Maddinson 2/22 (3)

A nice effort to at least pinch three wickets at the end to bring some respectability to the score board.

Despite the heavy defeat, Maddinson would surely have to go close to Man of the match after his effort in this match. Two 50's in low totals and two 2nd innings wickets!