I have just undergone the experience of T20 on TV.

I have prepared an Haiku in response:

Parasites parade in pyjamas selling poulet.

Prostitutes of pathetic perfunctory performance

Postscripts to professionalism.

Pfffft....

The result was good and the spirit of the team was good-everybody was happy for him and he showed he could play.

No harm done.

As for Lyon-he has only cemented his spot now.

Disagree entirely. The result was no good, he can't bowl. His 98 was obviously outstanding and fantastic to watch, but he wasn't there to make runs, and he couldn't take wickets. We were beaten in both Tests he played.

As for the whole 'dropping Lyon made him stronger', he'd already been dropped in India earlier in the year. He'd had that treatment.

As strange as it may sound, I hold more hope for Agar as a batting all rounder. He certainly has age on his side to develop his batting. His poise and downright elegance at he crease was a joy to watch, and he would be a handy option with the ball. Titan is right though, he is no frontline spinner.

As strange as it may sound, I hold more hope for Agar as a batting all rounder. He certainly has age on his side to develop his batting. His poise and downright elegance at he crease was a joy to watch, and he would be a handy option with the ball. Titan is right though, he is no frontline spinner.

we need to develop a batsman and real quick

clark,watto,rogers,wont be around much longer

it takes about 35 tests to learn all the pitfalls,and this is what happened recently when we failed to inject a younger player for the good of the future,

Notwithstanding his unique performance with the bat on debut, the selection of Agar ahead of Lyon smacked of desperation at the time by Australia after the awful tour of India and disruptive sacking of Arthur as Coach. In a way Lyon was lucky to have missed the Lotds test given Australia only made 128 in the first dig.

Too often, selectors get a bum rap but aside from Agar they have undertaken some inspired decisions:

1. The resurrection of Johnson initially through the ODIs and then the Tests was a master stroke of the highest order.

2. The return of Haddin has been brilliant. Great keeping ( Ashes record set in England), stoic and tremendous batting (Ashes record set in Australia for most runs by a keeper) and leadership and competitiveness.

3. Perseverance and patience with Warner, Lyon and Smith....they're the future.

Also Cricket Australia for putting the right competent people in the right roles with proper support structures in place. I hoping for MFCs sake that the Aust cricket team evidences that you can turn things around pretty quickly if you have the right key people in place to support the talent that is there.

Disagree entirely. The result was no good, he can't bowl. His 98 was obviously outstanding and fantastic to watch, but he wasn't there to make runs, and he couldn't take wickets. We were beaten in both Tests he played.

As for the whole 'dropping Lyon made him stronger', he'd already been dropped in India earlier in the year. He'd had that treatment.

Lyon wouldn't be dropped if he took wickets-pretty simple.

Lyon has often gone wicketless as well, or been ineffectual.

I'm not into backing mediocre players until they can cope.

Agar coped immediately , Lyon has taken forever.

I see your point about stability etc but FFS -"Garry" has had a good go of it and is lucky to be there over Hauritz. Kreyja, Agar and all the others who don't spin it, never take bags and bat at 11.

He is a good, ordinary cricketer and though I love Kerry O'Keefe-he is in the spinners union and his opinions are "biased"

its not the ordinary catches that all keepers should take

its the ones they miss,and dont make

in this series hes made one and probably not made one,i mark that as even

as for his batting ,no argument from anybody so far

Lyon wouldn't be dropped if he took wickets-pretty simple."

In his last Test before the Ashes, Lyon took 7/94 in the first innings and nine wickets for the match.

It does not get much more simpler than that.

its not the ordinary catches that all keepers should take

its the ones they miss,and dont make

in this series hes made one and probably not made one,i mark that as even

as for his batting ,no argument from anybody so far

Your break even backstop is arguably in the running for the Allan Border Medal this year and rightly so. I reckon he is a top 3 finisher with Clarke and Johnson. His efforts in every facet of his game have been outstanding. And if you can't grasp the massive contribution that Haddin has made to this side in the past six months, compare it to the deadweight performances of Prior and Bairstow. I can't think of a greater example of chalk and cheese.

yes,your right he is in with a chance for the allan border.wow how exciting for a batting backstop,event will be life changing for the whole country

i dont compare it to other non aussie keepers,thats not even close to being a fair judgement

but i can understand other non cricketing folk that compare statistics in the hope that it makes the game understandable to them

you are still counting simple chances that keepers are expected to TAKE

your definately still using his batting figures to pump up his station as a keeper.

maybe the hydrolic hose {watto}needs you on his bandwagon to make him feel needed also.

yes,your right he is in with a chance for the allan border.wow how exciting for a batting backstop,event will be life changing for the whole country

i dont compare it to other non aussie keepers,thats not even close to being a fair judgement

but i can understand other non cricketing folk that compare statistics in the hope that it makes the game understandable to them

you are still counting simple chances that keepers are expected to TAKE

your definately still using his batting figures to pump up his station as a keeper..

It's quite clear that I measure keepers on the contribution they make to the team with the gloves, what they do when they bat and how they contribute on the field....in Haddin's case it's LEADERSHIP. Of course it's fair to compare Haddins performance to other keepers. It's been a crucial difference in the winning of the Ashes.

In Test matches runs are there to be made, wickets to be taken and catches held. And Haddin has done that. And whether you thin they are not spectacular or not, he takes them. Now compare that to the rubbish that Prior and Bairstow have shown. And even when you compare him to Wade his performance is outstanding.

This Ashes Series has been more difficult for you than the Poms given your pet hates of Clarke, Haddin and Watson have come through in some cases with oustanding results. A half smart person would be able to realis and acknowledge that. Your pain will be over after Sydney when you can convince yourself that the whitewash never happened. You have done well so far.

Lyon wouldn't be dropped if he took wickets-pretty simple.

Lyon has often gone wicketless as well, or been ineffectual.

I'm not into backing mediocre players until they can cope.

Agar coped immediately , Lyon has taken forever.

I see your point about stability etc but FFS -"Garry" has had a good go of it and is lucky to be there over Hauritz. Kreyja, Agar and all the others who don't spin it, never take bags and bat at 11.

He is a good, ordinary cricketer and though I love Kerry O'Keefe-he is in the spinners union and his opinions are "biased"

Lyon wouldn't be dropped if he took wickets? He took 9 wickets in the fourth Test in India, the one immediately preceding his being dropped in England. So you're wrong about that.

Sure, he's had his fair share of ineffectual innings. Exactly the same problem every other spinner we've had since Warne/MacGill has had.

Agar 'coped'? How ridiculous. His bowling was toothless in the extreme. He hardly spun it, his lengths were generally far too short, and he had little consistency. Don't let his 98 fool you, his bowling was not close to Test quality.

You won't back Lyon despite his clear marked improvement this summer. In a series in which Swann and Panesar have shown to be useless, Lyon's been consistent, taken wickets, put the ball in the right spot, and not leaked copious amounts of runs. That puts him well in advance of anyone else Australia has had in the last 6 years. He's much better than Hauritz, Agar or Krejza.

its not the ordinary catches that all keepers should take

its the ones they miss,and dont make

in this series hes made one and probably not made one,i mark that as even

as for his batting ,no argument from anybody so far

Which catches are those?

And it is definitely about the ordinary catches. Prior and Bairstow dropped plenty of easy chances. Haddin's not let anything get by him that shouldn't. And as for the tough ones, which you are so keen on judging on, I can't think of any drops off the top of my head. Suffice to say, his keeping has been near perfect.

Your biased view is pathetic, and continually calling him a 'backstop' is unfair.

I can honestly only laugh at the talking down of Haddin and Gaz. You have to wonder what they would need to do in order to earn praise. Both have had an excellent series. Haddin in particular has been immense with bat and gloves. His role in the resurgence of the team can't be overstated.

It is also very apparent that Clarke will NEVER win over some people who seem determined to forever park him in the "ordinary captain and he's a metrosexual nancy boy" pile. He has outdone Cook in every facet in this series and has led the team brilliantly. His being relieved of selection duties appears to have done the trick in removing any divide and he is now not only their captain but their equal. He deserves all the plaudits for what has been achieved here.

lyon is definately the interesting one

so far this series he hasnt put a foot wrong

made breakthroughs every time

quite strange hes taken a 100 wickets and overcome a few hiccups,yet on the radio they dont espouse his efforts this series

as for pup,still cops it from ponting,hayden,fleming and a few other ex players

but now we are winning it seems to cover everything said about him.

winning does excede all other scenarios

so PMAN,who has knocked haddin this series,or for that matter talked him down this series?

been watching the SA vs india series and noticed steyn,morkel and philander all bowl a good nut per over ,

but they dont seem to bowl lots of long tight spells like sids,harris

would also back lyon over rob peterson

Edited December 31, 201311 yr by jazza

lyon is definately the interesting one

so far this series he hasnt put a foot wrong

made breakthroughs every time

quite strange hes taken a 100 wickets and overcome a few hiccups,yet on the radio they dont espouse his efforts this series

IMO Lyons really come of age since late in the english ashes summer. His fielding & teamplay is fantastic & his bowling is exciting from what I expected from him.. he's earnt a position for a while.

as for pup,still cops it from ponting,hayden,fleming and a few other ex players

but now we are winning it seems to cover everything said about him.

winning does excede all other scenarios. I think Pups learning from boofs tuition about Off-field & general leadership

so PMAN,who has knocked haddin this series,or for that matter talked him down this series?

I wonder if P-man thinks silence about Haddin is criticism? Haddo's doing a great team job & holding the middle order together whilst we rejig.

been watching the SA vs india series and noticed steyn,morkel and philander all bowl a good nut per over ,

but they dont seem to bowl lots of long tight spells like sids,harris

would also back lyon over rob peterson

all in all we are on our way with momentum. SAfrica will be a big hurdle for us. but I hope we keep our strong competitiveness.

Silence? I am referring to the series of posts between jazza and others discussing Haddin and Lyon. How does that constitute silence?

Haddin has been excellent, he hasn't merely "broken even". He's let very little outside of the unreachable get past him, and he's supported Lyon and the rest of the bowling attack by holding onto the ones he should. Can not say the same of Prior or Bairstow, or indeed Wade. The difference with Hads behind the stumps is marked.

Haddin has had his fair share of knockers on the journey, with many cryinh foul when he was recalled. Pup also has his fair share of detractors who seem more focused on his appearance than his ability. Both players have made those knockers look foolish. The bigger person would admit they were wrong about them. I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen,

always wondered what it would be like if somebody held thier breath,you can go first seeing as you proposed the idea.

see you next year maybe

just going back to your post

maybe im reading the wrong thread,but so far in this series,i havent seen to many knockers of lyon or haddin

most people have been complimentry of thier cricket

watto,as usual has copped a bit,because under pressure,he just doesnt cope and so far in his career has only made minor contributions when the heat has been on

so,as your post suggests,should people all stand and make apologies for your comfort?or should OUR opinions be our opinions,

make apologies,pppfffft year 6 at school finished ages ago,for most of us

Edited December 31, 201311 yr by jazza

I can honestly only laugh at the talking down of Haddin and Gaz. You have to wonder what they would need to do in order to earn praise. Both have had an excellent series. Haddin in particular has been immense with bat and gloves. His role in the resurgence of the team can't be overstated.

It is also very apparent that Clarke will NEVER win over some people who seem determined to forever park him in the "ordinary captain and he's a metrosexual nancy boy" pile. He has outdone Cook in every facet in this series and has led the team brilliantly. His being relieved of selection duties appears to have done the trick in removing any divide and he is now not only their captain but their equal. He deserves all the plaudits for what has been achieved here.

I agree P-man. Any criticism of Haddin in particular is absolutely laughable. Since his return he's arguably become the world's premier keeper-batsman, with genuine first rate contribution from both aspects. AB de Villiers is the only close rival IMO. I couldn't be more pleased with his game. The criticism levelled at he and Lyon is just a classic case of people allowing their preconceived views to cloud their assessment.

jazza, your lack of comprehension seems to extend to your own posts, which needless to say is concerning. Go back and read what you've said about Haddin in this thread. Hell, on this page alone.

Your appraisal of Haddin is just flat out wrong, so clearly you're doing so to stick by your guns. Blind Freddy can see he's been one of the best performers, arguably only behind Johnson.

I haven't asked for an apology, so again you're off the mark. There is a difference between apologising and merely acknowledging that perhaps you've been too harsh on someone. Failure to do so doesn't bother me one bit, because it doesn't surprise me. I'm merely stating something which is fact with regard to Haddin's performance.

you finally got 2 things right

1/its my opinion hes a backstop

2/performance this series hasnt been to bad at all

interesting you couldnt hold your breath long enough

Edited December 31, 201311 yr by jazza

Silence? I am referring to the series of posts between jazza and others discussing Haddin and Lyon. How does that constitute silence?

Haddin has been excellent, he hasn't merely "broken even". He's let very little outside of the unreachable get past him, and he's supported Lyon and the rest of the bowling attack by holding onto the ones he should. Can not say the same of Prior or Bairstow, or indeed Wade. The difference with Hads behind the stumps is marked.

Haddin has had his fair share of knockers on the journey, with many cryinh foul when he was recalled. Pup also has his fair share of detractors who seem more focused on his appearance than his ability. Both players have made those knockers look foolish. The bigger person would admit they were wrong about them. I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen,

I was wondering IF not talking about him much on here was something you perceived as a put down of his abilities?

I think he's been great but I can't claim him as 'one of my hombre`s', because I wasn't on his bandwagon in passed years. I didn't stick by him, but he's been a bright surprise packet this summer for sure.

Pup has been ordinary off-field in the past years, but now with the right sort of support around Him in the team, he's able to do what he does best, bat & direct the field.

Imo he's learning from Boof, & is being more generous with his team-mates, & I think this is hugely important for team harmony & the teams onfield output.

you finally got 2 things right

1/its my opinion hes a backstop

2/performance this series hasnt been to bad at all

interesting you couldnt hold your breath long enough

So to answer your question as to who has talked him down, the answer would be you.

A "backstop"? What a completely daft insult. As Nash says, I can't think of another keeper I'd be swapping him with. He is a "backstop" in career best form, and he has saved our backside more than once to win back the urn. Your lack of respect for his performance is remarkable, but I'll grant you that opinions are like [censored].

Your last sentence makes no sense.

Edited December 31, 201311 yr by P-man

Deeluded - I think you may well be right re Boof's influence over Pup and the team dynamic. Many fans celebrated his appointment for that very reason. Look at Watson and Clarke. Suddenly they seem to be getting along like a house on fire. Winning will only help strengthen those ties.

So to answer your question as to who has talked him down, the answer would be you.

A "backstop"? What a completely daft insult. As Nash says, I can't think of another keeper I'd be swapping him with. He is a "backstop" in career best form, and he has saved our backside more than once to win back the urn. Your lack of respect for his performance is remarkable, but I'll grant you that opinions are like [censored].

Your last sentence makes no sense.

as nash says,wow

your right opinions are like [censored],bravo

and yes i am a proud cricket supporter,if you could read you might gather that,or get nash to help you form an opinion

my last sentence makes plenty of sense ,you just cant read your own posts #5665

Edited December 31, 201311 yr by jazza

Deeluded - I think you may well be right re Boof's influence over Pup and the team dynamic. Many fans celebrated his appointment for that very reason. Look at Watson and Clarke. Suddenly they seem to be getting along like a house on fire. Winning will only help strengthen those ties.

In a leadership vacuum, you end with lieutenants pulling in differing directions, because one isn't respected by All; that the team will willingly follow.

enter the coach who has the respect, the plan in mind, & the guile to implement it; then the support of the players... the disharmony & individual competitiveness between leaders, created by noOne really leading & without Real support becomes a fragmentation. loss of focus & output.

Boof has taken back the Rudder from Clark, & freed Clark to do what he's good at, to the benefit of all & the rebuilding of team Unity. focus returns & form follows.

we're still pretty much the same list, the same squad, but with less worry about each-other, & about their own positions, within natural reason. They can start to smile, & start to play good cricket; & sledge the opposition, rather than one another behind their hands.

Very true, simplicity is often a best friend.

The second, perhaps more genuine test for this lot comes in South Africa. Even with Kallis retiring, it will be the real mice and men exercise. If they find success there, I think we can call the turn around complete.

Happy 2014 fellas.