Previously, I've advocated going down the youth path with players like Jordan Silk, Nic Maddinson, Joey Burns and 1 or 2 others. I haven't changed my mind on that but I can understand why the selectors are going for a few older types.

I'd prefer to see us build a team for the future and I've always felt that a young batsman can improve when placed at a higher level of competition. We could or should win this Test despite our top 6 not performing when the heat was on (as a collective) Some of the shot selections in the 1st innings was awful and if that's repeated, we may not be able to wriggle out of things again.

I had a conversation 8? yrs ago, someone was bragging how good we were, I agreed. Australia "A" had a team that would beat most our countries.

The likes of Hodge, D.Hussey etc etc. couldnt crack the main test side. We had approx 2 teams filled with players of the same age, that meant they would all retire around the same time. I pointed out they need to rotate the Aust A team with some young blood. Not kept playing the same players, regardless if Aust A is performing well. Its far easlier for a young batsmen / bowler to come in and perform in a winning team than one that comes in .. perform now or your out.

A good winning team can carry a up and comer and give him time to adjust. What happened, those 28-34 yr olds in Aust A either lost form, or didnt get a new contract. Hayden Gilchrist Warne all retired etc etc , Hodge gave up. suddendly the next tier of young players were found wanting. Our main test team lost the backbone of the team. We found ourselves on struggle street, because we failed to blood or unearth young players to fill a void. Warne, Gilchrist cannot not be replaced, but the need turn over young players was crucial for our future. It didnt happen,now young batsman come in find themselves under the pump. Until the top order fire, we are going to be under the pump to win games. The bowlers when fit! have done their jobs.

Its time out luck changed, the last few 1st tests in the ashes series, we were well placed to win, only to be thrawted by rain delays or just sheer bad luck.

In Brisbane we are well placed again, lets hope it goes our way, and then the Poms are under the pump.

I had a conversation 8? yrs ago, someone was bragging how good we were, I agreed. Australia "A" had a team that would beat most our countries.

The likes of Hodge, D.Hussey etc etc. couldnt crack the main test side. We had approx 2 teams filled with players of the same age, that meant they would all retire around the same time. I pointed out they need to rotate the Aust A team with some young blood. Not kept playing the same players, regardless if Aust A is performing well. Its far easlier for a young batsmen / bowler to come in and perform in a winning team than one that comes in .. perform now or your out.

A good winning team can carry a up and comer and give him time to adjust. What happened, those 28-34 yr olds in Aust A either lost form, or didnt get a new contract. Hayden Gilchrist Warne all retired etc etc , Hodge gave up. suddendly the next tier of young players were found wanting. Our main test team lost the backbone of the team. We found ourselves on struggle street, because we failed to blood or unearth young players to fill a void. Warne, Gilchrist cannot not be replaced, but the need turn over young players was crucial for our future. It didnt happen,now young batsman come in find themselves under the pump. Until the top order fire, we are going to be under the pump to win games. The bowlers when fit! have done their jobs.

Its time out luck changed, the last few 1st tests in the ashes series, we were well placed to win, only to be thrawted by rain delays or just sheer bad luck.

In Brisbane we are well placed again, lets hope it goes our way, and then the Poms are under the pump.

Sometimes the old ways are the best, 'DV'. The sport hasn't changed all that much compared to many other sports (like footy) so we can confidently default to tried and tested ways without taking any undue risks.

I have no dislike of Rogers or Bailey but I wouldn't have considered either of them (when they were initially picked) because of their age. They may prove me wrong and if they do, so be it. We've picked other older players previously and apart from Michael Hussey, I can't think of too many batsmen picked at a later age who have had long and illustrious A grade careers (and shouldn't a long and illustrious A grade career of a player/batsman be the aim of the selectors?)

It should also be remembered that back in the day, Shield teams seemed to contain more younger players so the selectors had a few more to choose from (older players would retire early as there wasn't much money in the game) To me, the selectors are taking what they perceive to be the "safe" route but it's the opposite in my view.

Related is the way the selectors have treated the spinners (post Warne) There seems to very little patience involved and let's face it, Warne was a once in a generation player (probably multiple generations!!)

Edited November 23, 201311 yr by Macca

Poms just got on the reality bus?

The MFC reality bus in now in good hands. We have AHG for parts and a good service. While its off the road Hertz come to the fore.

Sweet talk Hankook back, and we can burn rubber.

they need to protect smith a 5/6 until he gets 30 tests under his belt

ive seen selectors before fall for trick of seeing lots of runs and promoting unready blokes up to 3/4 and the result disasterous

my brother keeps harping on about smithy being the next captain,

atm the bats are in a position to dominate ,so I wait until theres pressure before assessing the top6

something tells me its as brittle as a 13 schoolgirl

I agree jazz, & I also think that clark will improve as well, as the team improves. they'll all be more productive as the team ethos grows into camaraderie.

get the Aussie culture back healthy & competitively aggressive, & then it'll be time to blood some more talent into a healthy environment.

My philosophy is the same one as the thinking of old - bring one young player in at a time and bat him down the order. If he's any good he stays and then gradually makes his way up the order. It's a tried and true method and it's one that has served us well over many years. Bradman, Greg Chappell, Border and Harvey all started off this way.

Many, like Hayden, Langer and Martyn have made their way back into the side after initially being dropped after being picked when young. We could say the same about Smith now (although he hasn't established himself just yet)

Obviously not all young players are going to make it but nearly all our great batsmen were picked when in their early 20's. The facts are all there in front of us. I don't like short cuts or stop gap measures. Mine is a conservative view though it might be viewed as high risk - it depends on how you view things jazza

I agree Macca. very few kids are good enough to start at the pinnacle of world sports. not every player is a T Watson doing it at 16, or similar.

but there will be time to get our wheels oiled & running without squeaks, before then.

when the machine is serviced & tuned up, then bring the kids.

I agree Macca. very few kids are good enough to start at the pinnacle of world sports. not every player is a T Watson doing it at 16, or similar.

but there will be time to get our wheels oiled & running without squeaks, before then.

when the machine is serviced & tuned up, then bring the kids.

I believe there is nearly always room for one young batsman (unless the batting is settled and a new batsmen isn't needed) Bat that young player at no.6 until he's ready to go up the order (as long as he does enough to stay in the side, of course)

Warner gets a hundred! Lets hope he makes it a big one ... I read somewhere once that Warner has been known to spend up to 6 hours in the nets in one session. Maybe that dedication is starting to pay off.

I believe there is nearly always room for one young batsman (unless the batting is settled and a new batsmen isn't needed) Bat that young player at no.6 until he's ready to go up the order (as long as he does enough to stay in the side, of course)

Warner gets a hundred! Lets hope he makes it a big one ... I read somewhere once that Warner has been known to spend up to 6 hours in the nets in one session. Maybe that dedication is starting to pay off.

yes but not in a sinking ship or as severely leaking ship.

once its back righted & steaming again,, thats the time to bring in the young, when there is an aire of genuine hope & excitement. not thrown to the sharks.

and agree to introduce them in the lesser roles first, then once acclimatised, promote when ready.

capitarn cook, addressing his charges at the luncheon break. the bright eyes are now squinted by the afternoon Sun.

yes but not in a sinking ship or as severely leaking ship.

once its back righted & steaming again,, thats the time to bring in the young, when there is an aire of genuine hope & excitement. not thrown to the sharks.

and agree to introduce them in the lesser roles first, then once acclimatised, promote when ready.

... as an example, if we were to give Maddinson, Silk or Burns a chance, they could bat in the "seemingly" unaccustomed position of no.6 (they all currently either open or bat in the first 3 for their state)

The problem I have with your argument is that you're always waiting for the "right" time (and you may well be right with that view) The time is always nigh for me. That's our point of difference 'dl' (and it's ok to agree to disagree)

I also don't believe that a young batsman needs to be knocking down the door to the Test side either - if the selectors all thought that Bradman was going to be the world's greatest ever batsman, why did they start him off at no.7 and drop him after his first Test?

Traditionally many top order State batsmen started their Test careers batting at around the no.6 spot. It wasn't viewed as an unusual thing back when it was practised but it would be now - many cricket followers would be scratching their heads with bewilderment

... as an example, if we were to give Maddinson, Silk or Burns a chance, they could bat in the "seemingly" unaccustomed position of no.6 (they all currently either open or bat in the first 3 for their state)

The problem I have with your argument is that you're always waiting for the "right" time (and you may well be right with that view) The time is always nigh for me. That's our point of difference 'dl' (and it's ok to agree to disagree)

I also don't believe that a young batsman needs to be knocking down the door to the Test side either - if the selectors all thought that Bradman was going to be the world's greatest ever batsman, why did they start him off at no.7 and drop him after his first Test?

Traditionally many top order State batsmen started their Test careers batting at around the no.6 spot. It wasn't viewed as an unusual thing back when it was practised but it would be now - many cricket followers would be scratching their heads with bewilderment

yes it is very few can swim from the start in a poor team & a poor team environment. last ashes over in England IMO, would have been the wrong time as Boof needed to sort them out first. But now I think we're getting closer, but now isn't the time to gamble with a kid just yet, as we are on the cusp of taking an advantage over the poms.

lets get in front in this series first, unless someone makes a major f*%Cup.

* not the right time, a better environment.

Edited November 23, 201311 yr by dee-luded

yes it is very few xcan swim from the start in a poor team & a poor team environment. last ashes over in England IMO, would have been the wrong time as Boof needed to sort them out first. But now I think we're getting closer, but now isn't the time to gamble with a kid just yet, as we are on the cusp of taking an advantage over the poms.

lets get in front in this series first, unless someone makes a major f*%Cup.

Fair enough 'dl' ...

Only rain can save England from certain defeat in this Test. I'd like to see Lyon get a big haul when we bowl. I also like the idea of having 9 full days off until the next Test. If it were a back to back situation we might be more vulnerable. England will have to stew on things for a while.

Let's hope the curator prepares a typical road for Adelaide - our batsmen need some more chances to get some runs in the bank.

Fair enough 'dl' ...

Only rain can save England from certain defeat in this Test. I'd like to see Lyon get a big haul when we bowl. I also like the idea of having 9 full days off until the next Test. If it were a back to back situation we might be more vulnerable. England will have to stew on things for a while.

Let's hope the curator prepares a typical road for Adelaide - our batsmen need some more chances to get some runs in the bank.

we certainly consolidated today with the bat, setting it right up now.

it seams the lack of ball movement thru the air & off the wicket has helped us thus far. the poms look vulnerable when the ball is at their bodies.

I reckon your odds on now for the win you predicted.

* I've just noticed we go to Sth Africa, after this Ashes campaign. maybe a good time to blood some kids too, as well as Faulkner & Stark, Pattinson? & the other young guy, forgotten his name now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/teams/australia/fixtures

Anyone read the Daily Mail?

On Day 1, their chief cricket writer Martin Samuel declared a "gulf" between the two sides with an English victory being a formality.

Day 2, he berated Trott for gifting Johnson his wicket and, in his words, "giving a sucker a break".

His take on Day 3 will be interesting to say the least.

we certainly consolidated today with the bat, setting it right up now.

it seams the lack of ball movement thru the air & off the wicket has helped us thus far. the poms look vulnerable when the ball is at their bodies.

I reckon your odds on now for the win you predicted.

* I've just noticed we go to Sth Africa, after this Ashes campaign. maybe a good time to blood some kids too, as well as Faulkner & Stark, Pattinson? & the other young guy, forgotten his name now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/teams/australia/fixtures

Of course I waited for us to get well on top before doing so

So many things have gone well in the last 2 and 1/3 days (including having 2 century makers today) Things couldn't have been scripted better since we were 6/132 (which seems like light years away now)

Clarke and Lehmann have 9 days now (maybe 10) to bring the players back to Earth (and England will have to wait and they may overplay things when we get to Adelaide) We're in a great position.

Anyway, for those who are interested, here's 'Aggers and Geoffrey again with their summary ... Australia build huge lead ... as well as that, here's a summary from the 'Mirror' ... Gabba curse shows no sign of letting up for England

Of course I waited for us to get well on top before doing so

So many things have gone well in the last 2 and 1/3 days (including having 2 century makers today) Things couldn't have been scripted better since we were 6/132 (which seems like light years away now)

Clarke and Lehmann have 9 days now (maybe 10) to bring the players back to Earth (and England will have to wait and they may overplay things when we get to Adelaide) We're in a great position.

Anyway, for those who are interested, here's 'Aggers and Geoffrey again with their summary ... Australia build huge lead ... as well as that, here's a summary from the 'Mirror' ... Gabba curse shows no sign of letting up for England

Boofs work on Warner is just fantastic.

he's got him disciplined & wanting to prove himself all over again. he looks a new cricketer. he will be one to work to maintain his ego I feel. S.M.S

the team is looking like one, & Lyon; he looks a different man from 12 months back.

There was so much to like about Warner's innings. I'm not sure about the miracle transformation in his character, but there was a focus and maturity to that knock that was so refreshing. And after scoring 120 odd, he was as annoyed at getting out as if it had been 100 less than that.

He was certainly talking up a big game before this series, but so far he is backing it up and then some. For whatever reason he seems to be in a good place, which will be vital of we are to win back the urn.

I still think there are question marks over the batting lineup, especially with Watto looking so vulnerable, but will save those reservations for a gloomier day. Right now, life is good.

Anyone read the Daily Mail?

On Day 1, their chief cricket writer Martin Samuel declared a "gulf" between the two sides with an English victory being a formality.

Day 2, he berated Trott for gifting Johnson his wicket and, in his words, "giving a sucker a break".

His take on Day 3 will be interesting to say the least.

I missed his name but the English cricket "expert" from The Independent newspaper who was matching wits with Crash Craddock on Summer360 should make interesting viewing if he's invited back. Spent last week bagging the Aussies and might have some explaining to do about the performances of Warner and Johnson.

I missed his name but the English cricket "expert" from The Independent newspaper who was matching wits with Crash Craddock on Summer360 should make interesting viewing if he's invited back. Spent last week bagging the Aussies and might have some explaining to do about the performances of Warner and Johnson.

I would say those performances were terrific in the past 3 days

but in fairness to the scribe from england.johnson/warner did have giant question marks with their recent test form

mitch threw cream pies and bought our ashes series undone in his last effort that's a fact

and warners last ashes effort wouldn't be described as passable

still,lets kick them while weve got em down

There was so much to like about Warner's innings. I'm not sure about the miracle transformation in his character, but there was a focus and maturity to that knock that was so refreshing. And after scoring 120 odd, he was as annoyed at getting out as if it had been 100 less than that.

He was certainly talking up a big game before this series, but so far he is backing it up and then some. For whatever reason he seems to be in a good place, which will be vital of we are to win back the urn.

I still think there are question marks over the batting lineup, especially with Watto looking so vulnerable, but will save those reservations for a gloomier day. Right now, life is good.

maybe not so much a transformation of his 'character', but maybe a realisation the Aussie cricket world doesn't orbit around his head, & I think he's pulled his head & ego in a bit, thru forced disciplines.

he seems to have taken the necessary change in attitude & is focused on his game.

the whole team is now looking more cohesive since Boof came into the frame.... & the poms so far, are feeling the warm Aussie heat.

Only one wicket that session. Bell and Cook are the biggest obstacles, we really need to get one of them out sooner rather than later, expose Root and Prior who are woefully out of form.

England has a habit of being insipid for the first three innings of Tests but batting out a draw (Cardiff 2009, Durban 2009, Auckland 2013). If it rains a bit here and there, cuts out a few hours, you never know.

Only one wicket that session. Bell and Cook are the biggest obstacles, we really need to get one of them out sooner rather than later, expose Root and Prior who are woefully out of form.

England has a habit of being insipid for the first three innings of Tests but batting out a draw (Cardiff 2009, Durban 2009, Auckland 2013). If it rains a bit here and there, cuts out a few hours, you never know.

Sounds like a version of MFCSS.

Perhaps AustralianXISS?

Sounds like a version of MFCSS.

Perhaps AustralianXISS?

Now that both Bell and Cook are gone, it's a lot easier to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It was always going to be a miracle for England, but they've defied the odds before.

Lyon's bowling very well, much better than Swann has in this Test. Good to see us put our faith in him and that he's helped us immensely in this Test. He and Siddle don't need to take bags of wickets to show their worth.

Edit: And Lyon gets Prior now too! Wow, he's in shocking form. Who'd have thought we have the better keeper and the better spinner?

Only one wicket that session. Bell and Cook are the biggest obstacles, we really need to get one of them out sooner rather than later, expose Root and Prior who are woefully out of form.

England has a habit of being insipid for the first three innings of Tests but batting out a draw (Cardiff 2009, Durban 2009, Auckland 2013). If it rains a bit here and there, cuts out a few hours, you never know.

Your wish is their command, titan.

Even some decent sized hail isn't going to prevent a win this time.

Your wish is their command, titan.

Even some decent sized hail isn't going to prevent a win this time.

Well I guess I was right. Getting Cook out has led to 4 wickets in 4 overs, the innings falling apart.

Getting a 1-0 lead is huge.

The Adelaide test is vital. It will be a slower wicket with less pace and bounce which will suit England. If we can just make sure we don't loose and get a draw, it'll mean we can head to Perth where we never loose to England due to the even faster and bouncier wicket and be heading for a 2-0 lead with two tests to go.

If Adelaide's a good batting wicket we should just bat, bat, bat and bat and if a draw comes that is almost as good as a win for us heading into Perth with a 1-0 lead!