Anyone for cricket?

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Maxwell also took a wicket to go with his century. I tell you what, if he can do what David Warner's done (to an extent he has anyway) and learn to adjust his aggresive batting into test form. He could become our genuine spinning all rounder allowing us to play 4 quicks if we wanted?

He's a serious talent Maxwell. Fingers crossed he can become our next Doug Walters...

Every time Maxwell blazes away, whether in First Class (almost never) or limited overs format, people salivate and say 'he could be the next big thing in the Test side!'

He's not close to a Test player.

I'd rather see him keep doing what he's doing and being a long term member of the ODI/T20 squads than attempt to play Test cricket and end up somewhere in between a Test and ODI player. His turn in India highlighted how massively far off it he is, and a blazing ODI 100 doesn't change that.

[jazza 1,323]

only seen Maxwell in odi s

always like to see players after 6 tests before I can judge them

[Biffen 12,943]

good to see the J Bird in.

He will take 300 plus test wickets in time.

Control.....

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Every time Maxwell blazes away, whether in First Class (almost never) or limited overs format, people salivate and say 'he could be the next big thing in the Test side!'

He's not close to a Test player.

I'd rather see him keep doing what he's doing and being a long term member of the ODI/T20 squads than attempt to play Test cricket and end up somewhere in between a Test and ODI player. His turn in India highlighted how massively far off it he is, and a blazing ODI 100 doesn't change that.

Absolutely right.

Maxwell is a tease because he does all three disciplines flamboyant in the contrived rules and atmosphere of ODI/T20. The problem is he is not sufficiently competent or dominant in either batting or bowling to be picked consistently in Test cricket.

You just won't make it at Test level if you bowl dibbly dobber off spin or your flat track short term lower hitter. These good time Charlie's always get found out.

An all rounder at Test level is someone who get picked as either a batter or bowler. And their role as all rounder as they will be expected to Test competent in both disciplines. It's a hard act and so few rise to the challenge and make it. We have been teased by Watson but he is not truly there.

And Maxwell is not there with either discipline. I have more hopes in Agar for the future. And he is not there yet.

[Rogue 585]

only seen Maxwell in odi s

always like to see players after 6 tests before I can judge them

I respect you continuing to abstain from writing me off as a Test player.

It may be a while before I get to six Tests though.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Every time Maxwell blazes away, whether in First Class (almost never) or limited overs format, people salivate and say 'he could be the next big thing in the Test side!'

He's not close to a Test player.

I'd rather see him keep doing what he's doing and being a long term member of the ODI/T20 squads than attempt to play Test cricket and end up somewhere in between a Test and ODI player. His turn in India highlighted how massively far off it he is, and a blazing ODI 100 doesn't change that.

When David Warner burst onto the scene just over 4 years ago in a T20 match against RSA I think Test match cricket would have been the furthest thing from peoples minds, yet here we are all this time later and one could argue that after Clarke, Warner's our 2nd best batsman in the test side.

I'm certainly not saying that Maxwell will make it or will be the next big thing in Test cricket. But fact of the matter is that's he's still only 24. He has a better First Class batting average then Shaun Marsh who several people still think has some type of a future in our Test side and only has 5 less First class hundreds despite being 6 years Marsh's junior. Also one of those hundreds that Maxwell almost never scores at First Class level happened in the last week of July this year http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/630760.html. Maxwell also has a better First Class bowling average then Nathan Lyon who is currently in our test side bowling the same off breaks.

Maxwell's batting was shown up over in India, but then again, Michael Clarke aside, who batting in that tour wasn't shown up over there? They were all horrible. He also showed an ability to take regular wickets in India with the ball with a strike rate of just over 35. His economy was high, but if he's taking a wicket every 6 overs then one cancels the other out.

As I said, not saying that Maxwell will make it. But to say that the guy could become a very good player is no more speculative then saying Joe Burns or Josh Hazlewood is going to make it.

good to see the J Bird in.

He will take 300 plus test wickets in time.

Control.....

Agree Biffen, I'm a big fan of Bird.

Early days in this test but I reckon England are already playing for the draw in this test to secure the series with a 2-0 lead with 1 test to go.

Lunch Day 1

England 1/57

A. Cook 21*

J. Root 16

J. Trott 13*

S. Watson 1/8 (7)

J. Bird 0/15 (8)

P. Siddle 0/15 (5)

Glad to see Watson listed at 6, his scores can almost be accepted if he's batting down there and taking wickets also.

[Macca 16,972]

Not wrong there 45. Here's the match report.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/current/story/660507.html

Went from 8/152 to 8/298 and then a double wicket maiden from Coulter-Nile in the 2nd last over got Australia A over the line against India A who were playing some good players in Rohit Sharma, Raina and Pujara.

Maxwell also took a wicket to go with his century. I tell you what, if he can do what David Warner's done (to an extent he has anyway) and learn to adjust his aggresive batting into test form. He could become our genuine spinning all rounder allowing us to play 4 quicks if we wanted?

He's a serious talent Maxwell. Fingers crossed he can become our next Doug Walters...

Maxwell is certainly very talented and likes to play his shots (like a number of the young batsmen in Shield cricket) His first class batting average is around about the same as Burns, Maddinson, Silk and Doolan's (high 30's or low 40's) I could see him possibly batting at no.6 in the future but only if we had a strong batting line-up.

The National selectors would probably be looking at batsmen who bat in the top 3 or 4 for their State (Burns, Maddinson, Silk and Doolan fall into this category) Glenn probably has to bat higher for Victoria to be considered right now.

But at 24, Maxwell is too young to write off just yet. At least his bowling is handy (35 wickets at 35.22) Many of our batsmen or potential new batsmen don't bowl much at all and when your top 4 bowlers aren't great (yet), you need 1 or 2 of your batsmen to bowl a certain number of overs. Smith, Warner and Clarke's bowling can't be relied upon.

We would miss Watson's bowling if he wasn't replaced with a 'like for like'. For that reason, I was surprised that Henriques wasn't in the Ashes squad (especially when we consider Watto's history with injuries)

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Tea on Day 1

England 4/155

A. Cook 51

J. Trott 49

K. Pietersen 26

N. Lyon 2/28 (7)

S. Watson 1/20 (10)

J. Bird 1/31 (16)

Very good sessions there as this seems a very flat and very slow pitch and I reckon it will be hard work for the bowlers all day every day. Pitch made for a draw.... If we can get Bell early after Tea we'll be in a great position to try and knock them over for under 250.

Come on Aussies!

[Macca 16,972]

Bird strikes with a 'McGrath' like delivery to get rid of Cook. If he can reproduce that sort of leg cutter regularly, he'll have quite a career. Bowls with very good rhythm and makes the batsmen play consistently. Ideal 2nd or 3rd seamer. You may well be right about him, 'Biff'. We're building up quite a battery of fast bowlers. (especially when Cummins and Pattinson are fit and raring to go again)

Lyon has also bowled well. Trott and KP are a couple of handy scalps on a day 1 pitch. Hope he gets a bag here. He's copped a bit of unnecessary stick from quite a few of the English commentators (notably Boycott, Vaughan and Gower) Whilst he may never achieve greatness, he's still quite a good offie.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Bird strikes with a 'McGrath' like delivery to get rid of Cook. If he can reproduce that sort of leg cutter regularly, he'll have quite a career. Bowls with very good rhythm and makes the batsmen play consistently. Ideal 2nd or 3rd seamer. You may well be right about him, 'Biff'. We're building up quite a battery of fast bowlers. (especially when Cummins and Pattinson are fit and raring to go again)

Lyon has also bowled well. Trott and KP are a couple of handy scalps on a day 1 pitch. Hope he gets a bag here. He's copped a bit of unnecessary stick from quite a few of the English commentators (notably Boycott, Vaughan and Gower) Whilst he may never achieve greatness, he's still quite a good offie.

Add Bell to his list of scalps Macca! What a bizzare shot to play first over after tea???

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Stumps on Day 1

England 9/238

A. Cook 51

J. Trott 49

K. Pietersen 26

N. Lyon 4/42 (20)

R. Harris 2/70 (19)

S. Watson 1/21 (13)

Shame we leaked a few runs at the end of the day but all and all a great day for the Aussies and especially Nathan Lyon. It looks a pretty flat wicket. So fingers crossed we can knock them over early tomorrow and then go out there and make 400-500 and really apply some pressure!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

When David Warner burst onto the scene just over 4 years ago in a T20 match against RSA I think Test match cricket would have been the furthest thing from peoples minds, yet here we are all this time later and one could argue that after Clarke, Warner's our 2nd best batsman in the test side.

I'm certainly not saying that Maxwell will make it or will be the next big thing in Test cricket. But fact of the matter is that's he's still only 24. He has a better First Class batting average then Shaun Marsh who several people still think has some type of a future in our Test side and only has 5 less First class hundreds despite being 6 years Marsh's junior. Also one of those hundreds that Maxwell almost never scores at First Class level happened in the last week of July this year http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/630760.html. Maxwell also has a better First Class bowling average then Nathan Lyon who is currently in our test side bowling the same off breaks.

Maxwell's batting was shown up over in India, but then again, Michael Clarke aside, who batting in that tour wasn't shown up over there? They were all horrible. He also showed an ability to take regular wickets in India with the ball with a strike rate of just over 35. His economy was high, but if he's taking a wicket every 6 overs then one cancels the other out.

As I said, not saying that Maxwell will make it. But to say that the guy could become a very good player is no more speculative then saying Joe Burns or Josh Hazlewood is going to make it.

Glad to see Watson listed at 6, his scores can almost be accepted if he's batting down there and taking wickets also.

Careful Tall Defence, your almost WYL-like in trying to restate your position on Maxwell.

In post #4817, you had hopes that he would be our next spinning all rounder or the next Doug Walters. Either way you are putting the cart a country mile ahead of the horses.

Its already been pointed out that to be a Test allrounder you need to be proficient at both batting and bowling.

And his form in India should have highlighted the challenges. Warner is a very capable batsman and he showed he was capable in longer forms of the game prior to breaking on the Test scene. With Maxwell, his promise as a talent was exposed. He is either going to make it as a batsman or less likely as a bowler.

Unless he changes his spots, he needs a flurry of runs in all conditions to justify the call up as a batsman alone. And the current dearth of quailty batsman may well change in that time and he will potentially battle alot of competition for a batting spot.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Stumps on Day 1

England 9/238

A. Cook 51

J. Trott 49

K. Pietersen 26

N. Lyon 4/42 (20)

R. Harris 2/70 (19)

S. Watson 1/21 (13)

Shame we leaked a few runs at the end of the day but all and all a great day for the Aussies and especially Nathan Lyon. It looks a pretty flat wicket. So fingers crossed we can knock them over early tomorrow and then go out there and make 400-500 and really apply some pressure!

Great pressure bowling from Australia on a wicket where the bowl just did not seem to be coming onto the bat. While the TV screen ball speed meter was working with the quicks 81-86 mph, the batsmen seem to be reaching for the ball. The ball was not coming off the deck that quickly.

But there was an air of tentativeness about England even at 1-100. They never looked like they were getting on top.

The England top 3 now have question marks on them in this series. If we had not have gifted Root a Lords Test 100, he would be close to the axe. Neither Cook or Trott have fired a shot.

And Lyon puts to bed the thought of rushing Ahmed in for the 5th Test.

And dare I say it....well captained by Michael Clarke. And for ex players commenting on this...Ian Chappell has been repeatedly saying that Clarke has been a far more impressive Captain than Cook with good fielding placement and clever bowling changes.

Durham is not an easy wicket to bat on. If Australia can hold its mettle and post a plus 320 score then its really game on.

Its great the Australians have backed up Old Trafford with a good first day at Durham. But there is lots of water to flow in this Test.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Careful Tall Defence, your almost WYL-like in trying to restate your position on Maxwell.

In post #4817, you had hopes that he would be our next spinning all rounder or the next Doug Walters. Either way you are putting the cart a country mile ahead of the horses.

Its already been pointed out that to be a Test allrounder you need to be proficient at both batting and bowling.

And his form in India should have highlighted the challenges. Warner is a very capable batsman and he showed he was capable in longer forms of the game prior to breaking on the Test scene. With Maxwell, his promise as a talent was exposed. He is either going to make it as a batsman or less likely as a bowler.

Unless he changes his spots, he needs a flurry of runs in all conditions to justify the call up as a batsman alone. And the current dearth of quailty batsman may well change in that time and he will potentially battle alot of competition for a batting spot.

Haha, very good RR, I like it!

In my defence I did say fingers crossed, not that he would or even that I thought he would.

My formal position on Maxwell is that he's a seriously talented cricketer with all of bat, ball and in the field. Of those three areas I think batting is his weakness due to consistency, but that can be improved over time.

You're right that he looked well out of his depth over in India and it's clearly to early for him right now. But I would put him in the same field with James Faulkner and Mitch Marsh as talented all rounders who could become decent players if they're able to improve certain aspects of their games. Marsh & Faulkner being an ability to make more runs and Maxwell needs to improve his technique/temperment and also tighten up his bowling some what.

Personally after Watson I reckon the next best all rounder in the country at this stage would be Andrew McDonald so I can't see Maxwell getting a call up anytime soon. But as you say, if he's able to prove himself in different conditions over time with more then just the occasional 50 or 100 off a handful of deliveries or seldom bag of wickets on turning tracks only then he could be a player.

He's in the maybe pile of players for mine as far as having a test career goes, but I do see a decent career in the ODI & T20 formats

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Great pressure bowling from Australia on a wicket where the bowl just did not seem to be coming onto the bat. While the TV screen ball speed meter was working with the quicks 81-86 mph, the batsmen seem to be reaching for the ball. The ball was not coming off the deck that quickly.

But there was an air of tentativeness about England even at 1-100. They never looked like they were getting on top.

The England top 3 now have question marks on them in this series. If we had not have gifted Root a Lords Test 100, he would be close to the axe. Neither Cook or Trott have fired a shot.

And Lyon puts to bed the thought of rushing Ahmed in for the 5th Test.

And dare I say it....well captained by Michael Clarke. And for ex players commenting on this...Ian Chappell has been repeatedly saying that Clarke has been a far more impressive Captain than Cook with good fielding placement and clever bowling changes.

Durham is not an easy wicket to bat on. If Australia can hold its mettle and post a plus 320 score then its really game on.

Its great the Australians have backed up Old Trafford with a good first day at Durham. But there is lots of water to flow in this Test.

You're right about Lyon, very impressive performance on a pitch that wasn't turning a heap, but as you say did seem slow and the batsmen struggled to time.

With all our batsmen outside of Clarke needing runs to justify their positions I'm hoping they'll seize this opportunity to out us in a dominant position and put as well clear of the 320 you mentioned which as you said would be a decent total on this wicket.

[jazza 1,323]

great to see Watson fit enough to bowl consistently

as for harris, hope he sees out the 5 days and has a good test

[Macca 16,972]

Stumps on Day 1

England 9/238

A. Cook 51

J. Trott 49

K. Pietersen 26

N. Lyon 4/42 (20)

R. Harris 2/70 (19)

S. Watson 1/21 (13)

Shame we leaked a few runs at the end of the day but all and all a great day for the Aussies and especially Nathan Lyon. It looks a pretty flat wicket. So fingers crossed we can knock them over early tomorrow and then go out there and make 400-500 and really apply some pressure!

If we do get that score of 400-500 then that may well end up posing more questions than it answers. Not sure if that happens that it solves the issues we have with our top 6.

If we start the next Ashes series with 6 of the current 8 batsmen who are in England then we may well be heading for another series defeat (it must be remembered that in the last 9 months we've lost series to South Africa, India and England without registering a win against any of those sides) Our batting has been an issue since before those series' began.

Now, the batting might magically come together for the next series and we might win the Ashes back but what are the chances? There's every chance that 1 or 2 new batsmen will get an opportunity in the next series but in some ways, that might be a little late.

To me, these last 2 Tests were a perfect opportunity to test the waters with 1 new batsman (they're doing it with a bowler - Bird) Unless our batsmen do very well in the next 2 Tests then the question marks will remain. Both Tests as well because if the batsmen fail in either Test (thus incurring a loss) then the selectors will be forced to make a change or 2 for the 1st Test in Brisbane.

Looking too far ahead? No. All the plans should now be for the next series. We've lost the Ashes, the series is over and whilst we can salvage something from the wreck, it's the next series that is the most important. We can save a bit of face but that's all. If this current series was being played in Australia then 1 or 2 batsmen might have already been banished.

I understand that bringing a player in from outside the squad is rarely done but both Agar & Smith were added to the squad before the 1st Test. Anyway, it will be interesting to note the tone of the conversation in October surrounding the make-up of that 1st Test team in Brisbane. I'm willing to bet that our batting line-up won't be settled by then.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Another wonderful bowling display. Most of our bowling innings this series have been disciplined and aggressive at the same time. Lyon went another step to making the Agar decision look woeful, Bird showed up Starc (Starc may feel disappointed but he continually releases pressure with half-volleys and leg-side rubbish. Run-scoring pressure is what did in Root, Bell, Bairstow and Prior), Watson showed that he has to bat at 6 to be able to chip in with his bowling. Great fielding too (Bird's early stop on the boundary, Khawaja's catch off Trott, Harris' catch off Bell, Haddin's catch of Pietersen, all great).

Will be interesting to see how we bat on this pitch. The Rogers-Warner partnership will also intrigue - Rogers is in form, Warner's not, and the Rogers-Watson partnership was doing fine. Pressure's on Warner. Watson meanwhile will hopefully avoid the swing and maybe get to get stuck in to Swann. Very keen to see how Watson goes at 6.

All in all, the more we play like this and keep things competitive, the more hope and confidence we can draw for the return series.

When David Warner burst onto the scene just over 4 years ago in a T20 match against RSA I think Test match cricket would have been the furthest thing from peoples minds, yet here we are all this time later and one could argue that after Clarke, Warner's our 2nd best batsman in the test side.

I'm certainly not saying that Maxwell will make it or will be the next big thing in Test cricket. But fact of the matter is that's he's still only 24. He has a better First Class batting average then Shaun Marsh who several people still think has some type of a future in our Test side and only has 5 less First class hundreds despite being 6 years Marsh's junior. Also one of those hundreds that Maxwell almost never scores at First Class level happened in the last week of July this year http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/630760.html. Maxwell also has a better First Class bowling average then Nathan Lyon who is currently in our test side bowling the same off breaks.

Maxwell's batting was shown up over in India, but then again, Michael Clarke aside, who batting in that tour wasn't shown up over there? They were all horrible. He also showed an ability to take regular wickets in India with the ball with a strike rate of just over 35. His economy was high, but if he's taking a wicket every 6 overs then one cancels the other out.

As I said, not saying that Maxwell will make it. But to say that the guy could become a very good player is no more speculative then saying Joe Burns or Josh Hazlewood is going to make it.

You could argue Warner's our second best batsman. But you'd be wrong. Rogers is our second best Test batsman, and at the moment Steven Smith is third (which shows you where Australian cricket is at right now).

That is, of course, besides the point.

Maxwell is not a Test cricketer. His bursts of wickets/runs are just that, bursts. They distort his averages. On the African tour for Australia A he made the big 155, but also made a pair. He also took just one wicket in four bowling innings. It's that kind of inconsistency that renders him a limited overs player. He has talent and potential, no one's disputing that, but he is simply not a Test cricketer. Australia has to stop trying to take limited overs talent and moulding it into Test match talent.

[Macca 16,972]

Aside from Clarke, there isn't one batsman who is assured of playing all 5 Tests when the Ashes are up for grabs in Australia. Normally we'd have at least 4 in total that we could bank on, but who would be willing to stick their neck out for any of them?

I reckon that 2 or 3 will probably will probably play in all 5 Tests but which ones? Rogers might play all 5 but he can't afford to fail like he did in the first 2 Tests in England. Hopefully the 80 he made in the 3rd Test is a sign of things to come. Smith is improving and Watson's bowling helps him a lot. Warner, Khawaja and Hughes have youth on their side. Not at all sure where Cowan fits right now.

We are not close to having a settled batting line-up. Some will say that we need to stick pat with our current batsmen but it's easier said than done. Losing and losing badly clouds the issue. Aside from Agar's 98 in the 1st Test, we were comprehensively outplayed when the heat was on in both the first 2 Tests. Change is often forced and change is often not really a option. If we lose the 1st Test in Brisbane then the whole debate will rage on again. Our batting has to click in Brisbane.

Cross that bridge when we come to it? We're already at the bridge. Our batsmen have to perform well in the next 2 Tests. Let's hope they do. Not all of them will perform well - that's almost a given. There will be at least one batsman in the current 6 who we will be pointing the finger at by the end of the 5th Test. (save for a huge combined batting effort in both these Tests - what are the chances of that?)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Haha, very good RR, I like it!

In my defence I did say fingers crossed, not that he would or even that I thought he would.

My formal position on Maxwell is that he's a seriously talented cricketer with all of bat, ball and in the field. Of those three areas I think batting is his weakness...

He's in the maybe pile of players for mine as far as having a test career goes, but I do see a decent career in the ODI & T20 formats

FWIW, I think Maxwells batting is better than his bowling but neither crafts are Test standard on their own. There's the rub. I think he could be very capable in the ODI/T20. And good on him.

I not excited about Faulkner and Marsh at test level. Watson is singing for his supper as an all rounder. In this series, like a number of others, he hits too few runs and takes too few wickets. Does bowl a lot of maidens....on the ground ( as opposed to the great Sharne Warne!).

IMO, Andrew McDonalds time has passed. Good and capable all rounders at Test level are hard to get. To get a great one you would have to win Tattslotto. Half a Jacques Kallis would do nicely.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

For all the grief about Australian cricket, I think there is great room for optimism.

Our fast bowling stocks despite injuries to a number of them look very good.

There are holes in the batting but early signs that Smith could make it.

Haddin is doing well with the gloves and we have Paine in the wings if his mojo and fitness returns.

Given where they have been in the 1st 2 tests after the Indian debacle, the application has been pleasing. The focus yesterday was very good.

We need to get rid of the last wicket and be around 250 - 280 at stump with at least six wickets in hand. It would be nice to bat for two days and get amongst them as well.

The Ashes are with England for this series but there is sooooo much o achieve in the last 2 Tests with respect to the return series in Australia that we have everything to play for.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Rhino Richards

[titan_uranus 25,020]

2/12. Warner and Khawaja both found wanting against inswing.

Good bowling, but both of them were struggling to get bat on ball in general. Broad's bowled a few leg-side deliveries, but neither was able to put them away.

Need Rogers and Clarke to hold on, wear the shine off the ball, see off the swing, because as it keeps swinging we're going to keep losing wickets.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

That's the correct DRS decision. The third umpire would have told Hill it was 'umpire's call' on hitting the stumps, and he would have said 'I didn't think it was hitting the stumps'. Therefore, on the catch it was not out because he didn't hit it, but on the LBW it remains not out because, ignoring the bat, it wasn't hitting the stumps.

Rogers very lucky, though.

[Macca 16,972]

Mark Waugh is saying that most of the ball must be hitting the stumps for it to be out (under the circumstances of that particular incident) Seems rather cruel to be given out with the double dip anyway.

"Ya dipped, ya had your appeal turned down, ya dipped again"

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Rubbish shot from Clarke. We've been lucky this morning some regards, though Rogers looks a bit settled in.

Three down now but no Clarke. We need a big one from Rogers.