Anyone for cricket?

[Macca 16,611]

At least our fast bowling stocks still look promising

All we can hope for is that the team pulls out all stops in the next 2 Tests. A few of the batsmen will get 2 more Tests to prove themselves and make amends. The only batsman who could come into the team is Khawaja (although Smith might be given a chance)

Here we go.

It's fair enough given the circumstances. I wonder if he'll go as high as 3? Our top 4 are really struggling and when you consider that the 1st drop is most probably going to be confronted with spin then he could jump 2 spots.

Happy to change my mind on that one. Not entirely sure about England though. Maybe no.4 ?

It will be a miracle if we've sorted out our batting before the 1st Ashes Test.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Macca

[titan_uranus 24,595]

I don't like it. The answer is not to put Clarke at 3 or 4 and shift a crap batsman down, or debut another crap batsman at 5. It's to find batsmen who are good enough. To me, it's papering over the cracks.

Anyway, that's not the issue. As I said, we can bat Clarke where we want, but we're going to be beaten every time in India if we only have Clarke. Warner's not good enough. His flashy 100s look good, but he can't play spin. Hughes is worse, and is likely to be dropped. If he goes this time, he may well go for good. Cowan consistently shows technique, but consistently gets out. Not sure where he's going to go. Watson simply isn't good enough, and shouldn't be in the side at all (his batting average is terrible for a batsman, he's not bowling, so that's that. IMO he should be dropped first, but that's not going to happen).

I have no idea, however, who to replace anyone with. IMO Shaun Marsh is a great batsman; his form last summer was abysmal but I wonder if something mental was affecting him. His form is returning and I think he could get back in. Usman Khawaja is like Cowan; looks good, doesn't score enough. George Bailey is just OK, David Hussey too old, Cameron White not much better than Watson. Alex Doolan is a flash in the pan. Andrew McDonald is good enough (and, unlike Henriques or Maxwell, a genuine all-rounder), but injured I think. I'd pick him in a heartbeat to bat at 6 and replace Henriques or Maxwell if he was fit.

Australian batting is not in a crisis. Yet. But it's heading that way.

[titan_uranus 24,595]

Having watched some highlights, I'd start by dropping Maxwell. He's awful. Not even close to Test quality. Our obsession with all-rounders leads us to play people like him (Steven Smith is another). He's so far off being good enough, it's almost funny.

I'd also drop at least one of the top 4. Watson would be my preferred choice, but it'll be Hughes I think. The replacement I guess has to be Khawaja.

Bowling-wise, replace Maxwell with Lyon. Should never have been dropped. Doherty's terrible, but we need two spinners, and Maxwell's not even close to a Test spinner. Doherty doesn't get on the plane to England.

In terms of Henriques, who is batting at 7 (and therefore not a good enough batsman), but bowling as a third pacemen (and therefore not a good enough bowler), he has to bat at 6 or be dropped. If we are clamouring for an all-rounder, he has to be able to bat in the top 6 or be a frontline bowler. Not a little bit of one and a little bit of the other.

I should say, though, that I don't read this as an automatic loss of the Ashes. England is totally different to India, and we'll be able to bowl England out with our pacemen, who are just as good as theirs. Yes, we'll have issues with spin, but Robin Peterson and Rangana Herath didn't tear us to shreds in Australia, where pace is better, and if we can deal with Steyn/Philander for two out of three Tests here, I think we can deal with Anderson/Finn over there.

[dee-luded 2,959]

At least our fast bowling stocks still look promising

All we can hope for is that the team pulls out all stops in the next 2 Tests. A few of the batsmen will get 2 more Tests to prove themselves and make amends. The only batsman who could come into the team is Khawaja (although Smith might be given a chance)

It's fair enough given the circumstances. I wonder if he'll go as high as 3? Our top 4 are really struggling and when you consider that the 1st drop is most probably going to be confronted with spin then he could jump 2 spots.

Happy to change my mind on that one. Not entirely sure about England though. Maybe no.4 ?

It will be a miracle if we've sorted out our batting before the 1st Ashes Test.

I don't think Warner is a true opener in all conditions.

I'd like to see Warner settle at 3.

Cowan & Watto opening.

Clarke at 4.

I don't think individually they are poor, but collectively they are not a team.

Add to this massively doctored wickets and the cracks in our batting appear.

I think they pulled Lyons to save him for England. to protect him in a way.

This side is without faith in one another. IMO they lack unity, that is, ultimate belief in the direction of the team.

They're are problems somewhere, at a time when they aren't settled.

#spelling

Edited March 14, 2013 by dee-luded

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Good posts above Titan and well thought out.

As far as our obsession with an all rounder goes, I can understand where the selectors are coming from. The days of Warne & McGrath are gone and they're concerned about our ability to take 20 wickets and there for want a 5th bowler who can also bat in the top 6 preferably. However genuine all rounders are hard to find, I'm talking about someone with a batting average of over 35 and bowling average under 30. Watson & McDonald are the only two in the country that fit into this category, none of Henriques, Maxwell, Smith, Faulkner or Mitch Marsh are there yet so in that regard with McDonald injured and Watson unable to bowl it was probably a mistake to play an all rounder and they would have been better off playing a genuine bowler who can bat a bit at 7 like Steve O'Keefe which gives them their 2nd spinneror Micth Johnson allowing them to play 2 spinners in the bottom 4.

As far as finding a suitable top 4 goes it's a hard one. I think Warner is good enough, he's just hit and miss and unfortunatly that's how he'll always be. He may struggle in the sub continent his whole career but at home and in other countries I think he'll do much better, there's always been players who struggle in certain conditions. Cowan, one of the few to show any fight in the 2nd innings, yet after only 1 century in 15 tests I think it is now the evidence is mounting that he just might not be good enough at this level. Phil Hughes likewise, he(even more so then Warner) has no idea against quality spin, whether it's ona turning track or not and the good fast bowlers have worked him out, evidence by the selectors not picking him against South Africa. I think he could be the batting equivelent of Nathan Bracken, could be a very good limited overs player but just not test standard which is a shame given his talent.

Then we get to some of our other options that you mentioned Titan. Khawaja, Bailey, Doolan, White, Hussey. Usman Khawaja certainly hasn't done anything at test level yet to overly impress, although his echnique does look sound, and although he has made some runs for Queensland, he hasn't exactly been banging the door down. I think he does deserve an extended run in the team without fear of being dropped to see if he can settle in. I'd like to see the selectors put him in for the next test and give him until the end of the Ashes in Australia to cement a spot in the team, that way he certainly can't complain about not being given a chance to cement himself. George Bailey is one who I'd love to see given a shot. He has good leadership credentials and I reckon he'd kill for a chance and would really value his wicket. His form in the ODI's suggests to me that he's the type of guy who thrives at the top level as his form in the short form suggests. Alex Doolan I can see where you're coming from. I have concerns about any specialist batsman being given a run for Australia with a first class average under 40, and although he's been in good form, is it just a purple patch? I wouldn't be against him getting into a squad, but would have my concerns if he ever made our best XI. Cameron White I think just isn't good enough, end of story, his foot work leaves a lot to be desired and David Hussey picked the wrong summer to have a form slump. With his age also he may have now missed the boat which is a shame, his ability to play spin bowling would have been very handy over in India.

Chris Rogers is someone who has to come into calculations for The Ashes. He's continually been racking up big runs in Shield cricket adn over in England in the county scene for years. Although he's 35 (I think) he's still making runs, is a good fielder and simply must be given a go. The lack of the development of our batsmen eg Callum Ferguson is really starting to hurt us. As I've mentioned befoer we've got to make sure that we look after and properly develop our young up and coming promising batsmen like Handscomb, Burns and Maddinson for the future.

[Macca 16,611]

I don't think Wanrer is a true opener in all conditions.

I'd like to see Warner settle at 3.

Cowan & Watto opening.

Clarke at 4.

I don't think individually they are poor, but collectively they are not a team.

Add to this massively doctored wickets and the cracks in our batting appear.

I think they pulled Lyons to save him for England. to protect him in a way.

This side is without faith in one another. IMO they lack unity, that is, ultimate belief in the direction of the team.

They're are problems somewhere, at a time when they aren't settled.

The brutal truth is that we haven't got enough very good or great players. Clarke is our only great player. Pattinson, Cummins and Starc could be very good or better but that's it. The rest haven't shown enough.

The selectors just need to keep giving new players a go until we start unearthing a few gems. It used to be that a new player was given a couple of Tests to show something and I still believe that tried and true method is the best way. We need an all rounder in the team so it's Watson, Henriques or Maxwell - but only one of them should play.

I don't believe giving a player an extended run is necessarily the answer although I think in some cases it's warranted. (especially if that player has very good technique or has a bit of an X factor) As a general rule I reckon it's good to keep a player hungry and gifting players with games is fraught with danger. What's wrong with a player being under pressure to keep his spot? That pressure can bring the best out of people.

We're not restricted with lists like we are in footy and other sports. They can pluck a player from anywhere and we've sometimes done that with some success. Warne, Walters, Ponting, Clarke and many other players were picked when they were very young. Often these young players had not had a huge amount of 1st class experience or were hugely successful at Shield level.

A lot will point at Mr Cricket and the fact that he was 30 years old when he debuted. My counter argument is that he could have been played from the age of 22 or 23. We had a fairly good batting line-up that stopped this from happening but he could have had a 16-17 year career.

If a young player is at or just below the level of a veteran then I'd pick the young player. There are a number of young players in Shield ranks that might be worth a punt. Doolan, Keath, Maddinson, Handscomb and Burns are possibilities. Khawaja will get his chance in India you'd reckon.

Our fast bowling is not a major problem although we need to manage them well. Hopefully Ahmed can solve our spinning woes. Let's face it, only one spinner is usually needed. Wade is probably safe for now but Paine is an excellent gloveman (and he can bat)

[H_T 3,032]

I don't like it. The answer is not to put Clarke at 3 or 4 and shift a crap batsman down, or debut another crap batsman at 5. It's to find batsmen who are good enough. To me, it's papering over the cracks.

Anyway, that's not the issue. As I said, we can bat Clarke where we want, but we're going to be beaten every time in India if we only have Clarke. Warner's not good enough. His flashy 100s look good, but he can't play spin. Hughes is worse, and is likely to be dropped. If he goes this time, he may well go for good. Cowan consistently shows technique, but consistently gets out. Not sure where he's going to go. Watson simply isn't good enough, and shouldn't be in the side at all (his batting average is terrible for a batsman, he's not bowling, so that's that. IMO he should be dropped first, but that's not going to happen).

I have no idea, however, who to replace anyone with. IMO Shaun Marsh is a great batsman; his form last summer was abysmal but I wonder if something mental was affecting him. His form is returning and I think he could get back in. Usman Khawaja is like Cowan; looks good, doesn't score enough. George Bailey is just OK, David Hussey too old, Cameron White not much better than Watson. Alex Doolan is a flash in the pan. Andrew McDonald is good enough (and, unlike Henriques or Maxwell, a genuine all-rounder), but injured I think. I'd pick him in a heartbeat to bat at 6 and replace Henriques or Maxwell if he was fit.

Australian batting is not in a crisis. Yet. But it's heading that way.

Well if you can't find batsmen that are good enough to bat at 3 or 4 outside of the team, what's the answer? It's to lift Clarke up the order, isn't it?

I know you don't like it titan_uranus, but Clarke now understands it, "there's no other choice"...isn't that what he said post match.

He has the technique and ability and know how to occupy the crease and nut out gritty innings. If we lose him early it will appear we're papering cracks, but we have to try it, becuase the guys up the order aren't achieving what they're supposed to.

I agree with your comments on Cowan and Khawaja. They have good technique, Cowan has proven he can hang around despite minimal centuries to date. We need guys who can hang around as well as score to provide support. That's why there's the Cowan-Warner combo.

Watson and Hughes appear shaky given Clarke's comments and we'll know soon enough which way they will go, but IMO Khawaja should polish his boots.

Clarke has got to move up to 4 if Hughes goes, Khawaja at 5. If Watson goes, Hughes and Clarke shuffle up, Khawaja still at 5. Henriques at 6. Wade 7. Lyon in for Doherty. Starc in for Maxwell (pitch permitting).

England is a different proposition to India in terms of conditions and all is not lost, sure. I think our quicks are sort of settled for England. It's the middle and top order that need organising and perhaps our choice of spinner. I would have said Lyon would have been a lock, but it appears that's not the case with the selectors.

[45HG 1,539]

Agree with HT.

It's all well and good to say find a good batsman who can play top 4. The reality is that we don't have one.

Until we find one, we need our best batsmen in there. It is pointless for him to come in at 3 for not much before quickly losing any support. It worked better for him with Hussey at 6 but with him gone, the bottom has really fallen out I think. Our tail may start earlier now but that's more of a reflection of our poor batsmen. No use batting Clarke lower to preserve the back-end - we need him strengthening the top. A clear succession plan should've been in place long ago.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The brutal truth is that we haven't got enough very good or great players. Clarke is our only great player. Pattinson, Cummins and Starc could be very good or better but that's it. The rest haven't shown enough.

The selectors just need to keep giving new players a go until we start unearthing a few gems. It used to be that a new player was given a couple of Tests to show something and I still believe that tried and true method is the best way. We need an all rounder in the team so it's Watson, Henriques or Maxwell - but only one of them should play.

I don't believe giving a player an extended run is necessarily the answer although I think in some cases it's warranted. (especially if that player has very good technique or has a bit of an X factor) As a general rule I reckon it's good to keep a player hungry and gifting players with games is fraught with danger. What's wrong with a player being under pressure to keep his spot? That pressure can bring the best out of people.

We're not restricted with lists like we are in footy and other sports. They can pluck a player from anywhere and we've sometimes done that with some success. Warne, Walters, Ponting, Clarke and many other players were picked when they were very young. Often these young players had not had a huge amount of 1st class experience or were hugely successful at Shield level.

A lot will point at Mr Cricket and the fact that he was 30 years old when he debuted. My counter argument is that he could have been played from the age of 22 or 23. We had a fairly good batting line-up that stopped this from happening but he could have had a 16-17 year career.

If a young player is at or just below the level of a veteran then I'd pick the young player. There are a number of young players in Shield ranks that might be worth a punt. Doolan, Keath, Maddinson, Handscomb and Burns are possibilities. Khawaja will get his chance in India you'd reckon.

Our fast bowling is not a major problem although we need to manage them well. Hopefully Ahmed can solve our spinning woes. Let's face it, only one spinner is usually needed. Wade is probably safe for now but Paine is an excellent gloveman (and he can bat)

Not so sure Macca, if we mew that the Huss was going to pull the pin this year it would have been better for the team if Ponting went 12 months before. to stagger the change over.

the team has lost so many greats in 4 years or so.

IMO the batsmen that have come in, have all had issues of one sort or another, which has stopped them from finding their feet & form...

These players need time at the crease together, & it would have been better done in Australian conditions.

Form, momentum & confidence is the main thing lacking.

I think we just need to be persistent to a large degree & let the side settle, after they rejig the lineup to suit the conditions & to the players strengths.

The panic of spin on doctored wickets, is the rot which has stolen the players composure.

[Macca 16,611]

Not so sure Macca, if we mew that the Huss was going to pull the pin this year it would have been better for the team if Ponting went 12 months before. to stagger the change over.

the team has lost so many greats in 4 years or so.

IMO the batsmen that have come in, have all had issues of one sort or another, which has stopped them from finding their feet & form...

These players need time at the crease together, & it would have been better done in Australian conditions.

Form, momentum & confidence is the main thing lacking.

I think we just need to be persistent to a large degree & let the side settle, after they rejig the lineup to suit the conditions & to the players strengths.

The panic of spin on doctored wickets, is the rot which has stolen the players composure.

If you look at it closely, we've sent some great teams to India who couldn't get it done. The conditions are probably the harshest for our team in some ways. You need to able to play spin really well on spinning decks, and you need good spinners in your team to have any chance.

England defeated India 2-1 in Nov/Dec but they have 2 world class spinners in Swann and Panesar. England in England will be a different story but our batsmen will need to fire. We're screaming out for a young gun batsmen. Greg Chappell, Border, S.Waugh, Ponting, Clarke - who's next?

Edited March 6, 2013 by Macca

[low flying Robbo 979]

Why do we bother going to India...

[titan_uranus 24,595]

i understand that putting Clarke at 3 or 4 gives us more runs for less wickets. But it doesn't get close to solving the true problem; we need 6 batsmen, we have 1.

[Macca 16,611]

Why do we bother going to India...

What's the name of that French city ..... ????????

[low flying Robbo 979]

What's the name of that French city ..... ????????

[45HG 1,539]

i understand that putting Clarke at 3 or 4 gives us more runs for less wickets. But it doesn't get close to solving the true problem; we need 6 batsmen, we have 1.

I don't think anyone is saying that. In fact, everyone seems to agree.

Moving Clarke to 3 or four wouldn't be an attempt to procure better batsmen - that's only a relevant issue insofar as he is being moved up because our other bats are no good.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Got him, yes! Tim Southee bowls Nick Compton for 0 and England are 1/5 in the third over on the 2nd day of the first test against New Zealand (Day 1 washed out).

Sorry, but the only thing that can cheer me up from our horrible display in India so far would be to see England get creamed by the black caps.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Wagner picks up Cook & Pietersen with consecutive delivers being his 2nd & 3rd bal of the match and England are 3/18. Go you good thing!

[MadAsHell 4,209]

England bowled out for 167 by the Black Caps in only 55 overs. Why don't you go and tweet about that Vaughan!

[Little Richard 6,213]

The ashes will be very interesting I think!

[titan_uranus 24,595]

Nice to see that it's not just us who are struggling pre-Ashes.

[H_T 3,032]

Have you guys heard about Alec Stewart's tweet?

Tool.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Have you guys heard about Alec Stewart's tweet?

Tool.

What did Alec have to say?

I thought considering he lead several abysmal English teams for a few years he'd be a bit more careful about having a go at another country while it's down?

Oh and in the latest update, NZ are 0/99 in their first dig.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Stumps Day 2 (first day play)

England 167

J. Trott 45

I. Bell 24

J. Anderson 23

N. Wagner 4/42

B. Martin 4/43

T. Boult 1/32

New Zealand 0/131

H. Rutherford 77*

P. Fulton 46*

Go the black caps!

[titan_uranus 24,595]

Amazing from NZ!

Guptill may not get back - Rutherford looks good. Can't believe Fulton is playing Test cricket again, let alone doing well.

[H_T 3,032]

What did Alec have to say?

I thought considering he lead several abysmal English teams for a few years he'd be a bit more careful about having a go at another country while it's down?

Oh and in the latest update, NZ are 0/99 in their first dig.

Found it. I had searched on his Twitter, but he seems to have been taken down now.

It was published in todays paper by Jon Anderson, (having recalled reading it), it says...:

....former England captain Alec Stewart took to Twitter yesterday to twist the knife. Stewart went with: "They've got Xavier Doherty, or whatever you call him.... (and) that Afghanistan bloke they're trying to give a passport to" (Fawad Ahmed- from Pakistan).