So should the selectors be kept for their selection of the lower order?

So who should the selectors have dropped and selected for the top order bearing in mind you have Captain and VC at number 3 and 4?

The selectors have spent the last 2 years looking for a spin bowler to replace S K.

The Top order has been sadly neglected, and now it's in need of the complete rebuild.

Clarke should have been dropped. Ponting should be batting at 5-6. Cameron White & Ferguson should have been given an extended chance to prove themselves throughout the past year.

Watson has done a stirling job as an opener, but it's not his spot. Which is why he goes out for 50-60, he cannot maintain concentration past that point. He should be batting further down.

This has also ruined the chances of Hughes-Being picked on his current form has all but buried his baggy green-That has been a terrible oversight by the selectors. Hughes has one more innings to resurrect himself

There's a good start RR, although i know you will disagree, but hey i expect that.

Mitchell Johnson went back and worked on his bowling. He is hitting the crease taller and with more control. It's enabling him to swing and causing trouble for the batsmen.

Psychology plays a huge part, small changes with massive effect. which is why our top order is failing-They are mentally stale....

Matthew Hayden digs the advertising

The selectors have spent the last 2 years looking for a spin bowler to replace S K.

And whats your solution? Steve Smith??? Hardly a faliing of the selectors there trying to replace the 2nd best cricketer Australia has produced.

The Top order has been sadly neglected, and now it's in need of the complete rebuild.

They replaced Langer and Hayden with Katich and have remodelled Watson as an opener with success after Phil Hughes proved to be a flash in the pan. No sign of neglect there. And we had the greatest No 3 batsman since Bradman there and Clarke was lifted from 4 to 5.

Clarke should have been dropped. Ponting should be batting at 5-6. Cameron White & Ferguson should have been given an extended chance to prove themselves throughout the past year.

When should Clarke have been dropped. He was the premier Australian batsman during Ashes 09 and has lost form recently. Given Ponting would have been retired as Captain at the end of this series, Clarke was legitimate Captain in waiting. Rash call WYL even for you. Ferguson could not have been given an extended go because he had a knee reconstruction last year. White's claims look better from pyjama cricket when things have not being going so well. White has been given Test exposure and did little at seven (and dont raise the bowling.)

Watson has done a stirling job as an opener, but it's not his spot. Which is why he goes out for 50-60, he cannot maintain concentration past that point. He should be batting further down.

Watson has been a successc (vs Hughes) and had he converted 2 more 90s to tons then we would have been lauding him. He was Australian cricketer of the Year last year. It tells a tale. He could indeed bat down the order but he gives us a consistent 50 to 60 at the top. Who can do better than that? With Katich finished we need two capable experienced openers and he is one of them. And if his partner would do likewise then that a 100 partnership. That's a win in my book.

This has also ruined the chances of Hughes-Being picked on his current form has all but buried his baggy green-That has been a terrible oversight by the selectors. Hughes has one more innings to resurrect himself

Wrong. Hughes has been given a tremendous number of opportuinities over the past 2 years to refind his mojo but has failed each time. Only Hughes has ruined Hughes chances. Rubbish. They should play Hughes in the next Test. Otherwise you are guilty of the very things you complain about.

There's a good start RR, although i know you will disagree, but hey i expect that.

Its crap WYL and its more of the same. Apologies for the facts but it does highlight some gaping holes in your logic. B)

And whats your solution? Steve Smith??? Hardly a faliing of the selectors there trying to replace the 2nd best cricketer Australia has produced.

They replaced Langer and Hayden with Katich and have remodelled Watson as an opener with success after Phil Hughes proved to be a flash in the pan. No sign of neglect there. And we had the greatest No 3 batsman since Bradman there and Clarke was lifted from 4 to 5.

When should Clarke have been dropped. He was the premier Australian batsman during Ashes 09 and has lost form recently. Given Ponting would have been retired as Captain at the end of this series, Clarke was legitimate Captain in waiting. Rash call WYL even for you. Ferguson could not have been given an extended go because he had a knee reconstruction last year. White's claims look better from pyjama cricket when things have not being going so well. White has been given Test exposure and did little at seven (and dont raise the bowling.)

Watson has been a successc (vs Hughes) and had he converted 2 more 90s to tons then we would have been lauding him. He was Australian cricketer of the Year last year. It tells a tale. He could indeed bat down the order but he gives us a consistent 50 to 60 at the top. Who can do better than that? With Katich finished we need two capable experienced openers and he is one of them. And if his partner would do likewise then that a 100 partnership. That's a win in my book.

Wrong. Hughes has been given a tremendous number of opportuinities over the past 2 years to refind his mojo but has failed each time. Only Hughes has ruined Hughes chances. Rubbish. They should play Hughes in the next Test. Otherwise you are guilty of the very things you complain about.

Its crap WYL and its more of the same. Apologies for the facts but it does highlight some gaping holes in your logic. B)

Apologies for the facts. Now that is an interesting one. I would use the word opinion myself.

You Have yours i have mine.

By the Way on a more important note.....Which Team Does HRH Elizabeth II support during an Ashes Campaign??

Thoughts??

EDIT...England all out for 187!!! The Bowlers have saved the Top Orders ass again

Mitch Johnson 6-38

He must have spoken to Roy Slaven last week in secret...Roy knows everything!!!

Edited December 17, 201014 yr by why you little

By the Way on a more important note.....Which Team Does HRH Elizabeth II support during an Ashes Campaign??

The winner.

What does everyone think about this for an ideal Ashes side. No Hodge as he has retired from test cricket

1.Watson

2.D HUSSEY

3.C.FERGUSON OR C.LYNN

4.M.Hussey

...5.CAMERON WHITE

6.Brad Haddin

7.N.HAURITZ

8. Ryan Harris

9.P siddle

10. C.MACKAY

11.P.GEORGE

Has D Hussey ever opened in his life? I'm not sold on Ferguson, let alone at # 3. Cameron White is another one I'm unsure about, and we're still a bat short IMO. Plus, if they're the best four quicks in the country we're even worse than I though.

NB: I don't know Lynn.

Ponting out for 1 again.

He must go down the list-it's time. Get over it Ricky, we all get old.

Our Batsmen have got to dig in and Bat All Day Tomorrow.....Its Test Cricket. Go Slow and careful, Break the Poms who are down a bowler. We don't need to win tomorrow-We need to win. So dig in for the long haul.

EDIT: so CLARKE is out for 20.....is that good enough??? I think not.

Edited December 17, 201014 yr by why you little

Australia's World Cup probables (30 players):

"There is blend of youth and experience in this extended group with exciting young talent like David Warner, Mitchell Starc, James Pattinson and Stephen O'Keefe all pushing for inclusion in the final fifteen," Andrew Hilditch, the chairman of selectors, said. "These players have some opportunity between now and January 19 to push for a spot in the final squad of 15.

"Australia is the reigning world champion and also holds the ICC Champions Trophy in the 50-over game. We've selected an initial squad with conditions in India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka in mind and expect this group to be equal to the challenge ahead."

Squad Ricky Ponting, Michael Clarke, Doug Bollinger, Dan Christian, Xavier Doherty, Callum Ferguson, Brad Haddin, Ryan Harris, John Hastings, Nathan Hauritz, Brad Hodge, James Hopes, David Hussey, Michael Hussey, Mitchell Johnson, Brett Lee, Shaun Marsh, Andrew McDonald, Clint McKay, Steve O'Keefe, Tim Paine, James Pattinson, Peter Siddle, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, Shaun Tait, Adam Voges, David Warner, Shane Watson, Cameron White.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/492953.html

If Johnson bowls in the second innings like he did in the first, we will need only 250-300 runs on the board to win. Of course there's no certainty at all in that.

I'd hope we bat for the majority of the day and get at least another 200 runs, which would push the lead over 400. South Africa made 414 two years ago but the pitch was dead that game and England's batsmen, for all their success so far, aren't as good as the South Africans were.

Hughes' technique is flawed, possibly fatally. He is riding on the credits he received from the tour of South Africa. The only reason he made runs then was because the Proteas kept giving him full stuff, not short stuff. I don't think his technique is anywhere near sound enough to be a Test opener.

Ponting is basically gone. He will never move down the order, so it's number 3 or retirement I would have thought. And he's not making runs. Problem is, I'm sure he'll want to stay as long as he can, his ego is enormous. It's a problem.

i think Ponting will retire from tests after the Ashes so he can play the World cup,if he underperforms in the World Cup he is gone. Id say Watson as replacment Captain, Pup not good enough, Hussey too old

I love this thread, it's gone on forever. Reminds me of "POINT KICK-INS"! Enjoying the fact that Perth is played so late over here in the eastern states too!

Apologies for the facts. Now that is an interesting one. I would use the word opinion myself.

Watson has been a success(vs Hughes) and had he converted 2 more 90s to tons then we would have been lauding him. He was Australian cricketer of the Year last year. It tells a tale. He could indeed bat down the order but he gives us a consistent 50 to 60 at the top. Who can do better than that? With Katich finished we need two capable experienced openers and he is one of them. And if his partner would do likewise then that a 100 partnership. That's a win in my book.

No its actually facts. You could use a few of them.

Onto to more interesting things.....

Watson 61 No (and batted well in difficult circumstances). I hope he goes on with it. He has been a masterstroke opening.

Ashes sprung to life yesterday. Australia needs at least a 400 run lead.

England likely to bat on the 3rd and 4th day (and not the 5th day).

It should be a great 3rd day.

Regardless of the outcome of the Series, I reckon Ponting will retire (or be retired). Clarke has possibly another Test left to hold his spot and claim captaincy.

Jaques could do with some big scores right about now.

Jaques could do with some big scores right about now.

Out for 16 today against Qld.

Khawaja made 23.

Watson made his fourth 90 today. He is worse than Slater.

Good lead now, 323, another 100 and that will be very nice.

Watson 61 No (and batted well in difficult circumstances). I hope he goes on with it. He has been a masterstroke opening.

Watson has done a great job opening no doubt, i just think the side could get more out of him if he batted lower and was thus able to bowl more.

We do have a lot of openers around the country who are yet to wear a baggy.

But Hats off to him for his Batting. He has been given a job and done it well, still missed that century though....he just can't crack it.

Watson made his fourth 90 today. He is worse than Slater.

Good lead now, 323, another 100 and that will be very nice.

You'd bet your house on Watson making a 50 and not going on with it. Still, i'll happily settle for an opener that consistently scores 50s, which Watson clearly does.

Have I mentioned that I love Mike Hussey?

The Poms could be back in this, although Swan dropping Siddle maybe crucial, with 5+ sessions to play Australia will need to still make runs from this point.

Hussey's best innings for a long time, Good on him, but we still need more.... the pitch is still good so no reason England won't make runs.

A true Test this one. Hopefully Johnson going for 1 won't put his bowling off in the second dig.

Edited December 18, 201014 yr by why you little

i just think the side could get more out of him if he batted lower and was thus able to bowl more.

His opening the batting has had nothing to do with restricting his bowling. And batting him lower would not mean he could or would bowl more.

We do have a lot of openers around the country who are yet to wear a baggy.

Any deserving a cap that Watson is holding back? Given we have few reliable Test level openers he is not holding anyone back.

But Hats off to him for his Batting. He has been given a job and done it well, still missed that century though....he just can't crack it.

He is still averaging over 60 in the series. Its unfortunate he missed that century but its a small criticism of top innings in the context of those who collapsed around him.

Cook lbw Harris 13

England now 1/23.

One down. Nine to go

2 for 37 Strauss gawn. Ponting did something!!!!

Well done Johnson.... B)

3-55 Petersen Done by Hilf.. his first wicket for EONS!!!!

4-81 Trott gets the Trotts....

EDIT: 5-81 Wicket on the last ball of the day.....Huge!!!!

Edited December 18, 201014 yr by why you little

6. We are only 1-0 and we can still win the Ashes....Well, we can seriously....Ah no

The Ashes this year are gone.

There go the ashes!

Write them off at your peril. Back to the wall stuff. MJ has found his mojo. Watson, Hussey are shining lights with the bat. God help England if ever Ponting & Clarke kick into gear. Looks as though it is 1-1 and they head to Melbourne; centre stage. The series is alive.