Generation dee

remember the hawthorn and collingwood games wyl? We all said that we were having a dip it wasn't the coach. That said, today's effort has been more aggressive and attacking. Add clark, grimes, viney, frawley and Dawes a bit fitter, take out pederson, Dunn, Byrnes, Fitzpatrick and Nicholson and you have a team considerably stronger and more skilled.

See that clint bizkit- toumpas can go in. Ead.

That's our best ball movement all year. Starts with pressure in the backline, holding the ball. More of that pretty bloody please!!!!

Kent. Will be a real player

Love your optimism tall defence! If anyone is watching fox footy, there is a replay of last year round 5 when we gave st kilda a scare. Just looking at the personnel changes from then til now. Bartram, rivers, Moloney, bate and Morton all moved on, and from today's team, magner, grimes, frawley, tapscott, Mckenzie, frawley, jamar and sellar all out. I think Clark also but I haven't seen if he is on the ground or not. Replacing those, Byrnes, pederson, toumpas, Dawes, Matt jones, terlich, rodan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, Kent and clisby, blease and spencer. Injuries have played a huge part in our lack of success this year, but looking at those changes I don't think we should expect miracles today. That said, put some of those injured players back in our team, add 20-40 games to some of those youngsters and we have a fairly good ceiling for improvement. Something to think about though, the ones making the skill errors- Morton, magner, Moloney, Rivers, bate and Dunn! Grimes has made a couple too, however as you can see the other guys are all players not on the list any longer.

Thanks Redleg. It's bordering on harassment how the media continue to write degenerative issues about the club. Journalists using phrases like "when the club were fined for tanking" or "moneyball recruitment strategy" These statements are invalid and incorrect, and don't cover the true context. Now we all know the club was fined, and yes rodan, sellar, pederson, gillies and Byrnes were bought in last year. But they fail to mention how we added toumpas, viney, hogan, Kent and Barry in that time. It's so frustrating when they blame the current footy department on "losing 4 top 14 draft picks" instead of pointing to the previous administration butchering training and development standards. Along with merger and relocation talk, thee dis continue to rubbish our club and tarnish our already suffering ability to attract supporters and sponsors. I've had a gut full of it. Damien Barrett has probably blocked my email address due to me emailing him correcting him on the false and poorly researched "facts" that he slanders in his usual weekly tirades aimed at this club.

It was in today's herald sun online. Just another pointless article that further makes demon supporters feel sick. What about the clubs who overlooked Joel selwood? I, for one, can not wait until we get back up near the top of the ladder and one of these talentless journalists need to write something positive about the club.

Sylvia and watts, did they seem to have any added bounce in their step, or same as usual?

Thanks GNF. Appears the afl are putting training wheels on and won't take them off until we are well and truly ably to ride alone. I've got sources that informed me the presidency was Alan stockdale's if he wanted it after the election. That said, I feel it's important we shore up the board and president as soon as practical, for further uncertainty dragging out will be detrimental to our ability to attract sponsors and members leading in to pre season.

Ben McEvoy must be sitting over at moorabin with a grin from ear to ear. Interesting for watts, I think ruck rover is the only position he hasn't played, along with ruck. Which I'm sure he will get a chance to try over the next few weeks. I expected taggert across half forward or maybe Davis to come in, something to give us a little bit to look forward to. Best of luck to Mitch clisby though!

Maybe if we got Leigh Matthews, he could get Simon black to come play for us? Or woosha could get Daniel Kerr over for us???? Nah sorry I don't mean to take the pizz. I was only thinking a few weeks back how I can't wait for a feel good footy story to come out of our club. Seems everything is player exodus, neeld sacking, poor finances. Would love to read about Jeremy Howe kicking 5 in a quarter to drag us over st kilda, or jimmy toumpas getting 35possies as well as shutting down dal santo. Or I could go on believing in the tooth fairy. All seem as believable lately!

No arguments from me. That said, Craig was very much a players coach, built a lot of trust with his players but also kept them in line. I've never been one to be entertained when he speaks, but I would definitely enjoy a 60%win ratio and going to games not expecting to be beating by 12 goals ever week!

Uhhhh, hardnut... With respect to how you rate Neil Craig, I think you are being very harsh. He took over with 9 games to go in 2004 with a team struggling to show any cohesion, confidence or real ability and the very first game he played a Melbourne team sitting 3rd. The team he took over was 15th. That week, they promptly pulled our pants down and spanked us by 72 points. For the next 5 years Craig coached Adelaide around 60% win loss and every week Adelaide played, you knew that that team would be hard to beat and would give 4 quarters effort. While I will mention that his last season and a half were very poor, he did mould the Adelaide crows team that last year missed out on a grand final by a goal. Furthermore, ill acknowledge that he had a finals record very poor in comparison to regular season games. I'm in no way endorsing Craig, however I'm trying to point out that he has a record as good as anyone's in that time, including Rodney Eade while he was at the doggies. I think it's important to respect that. Personally, I've seen a marked shift in Paul roos akin to James hird and mick malthouse over the past 2 seasons, and the answers he have given have gradually warmed from "no interest" to he now acknowledges he will take the call. I've heard more whispers that an ex-Melbourne and hawthorn employee who is now at afl level has expressed his recommendation to roos that he should accept the Melbourne position, which will be offered to him initially. After roos, take your pic of Craig, Eade, Williams etc.

After having the arvo to think about my thoughts on it, I thought I'd post it now. In my opinion, I feel neeld polarised the playing group early on. Sure, he removed some players who weren't going to take us forward, but I feel that fractured the playing group and probably created doubt. Neeld would have been seen as cam schwab's puppet per se, and that probably added to the lack of application from some players. That said, I wonder about the mental damage that we now see on grimes, Howe, trengove, Strauss, blease and watts, who now have 3-4 years on an afl list and have seen 2 coaches removed and have now to endure a new coach with new plans. That said, I feel neeld had good intentions in regards to building a team of players who give 100% effort, 100% of the time. With the addition of Dawes, hogan, toumpas, Clark and viney, added to trengove, Howe, frawley, garland and grimes, we have the core for players who are dedicated and live a lifestyle focused on getting the best out of themselves and will provide leadership and attention to detail, preparation and recovery. I was neither pro or anti neeld. But I am pro- demon. I'm frustrated that our club is again the laughing stock of the afl. I'm frustrated that we've played just 11 games and we are facing half a season of "treading water" with no actual game plan or structure to adhere to. I'm frustrated that we now have cost a second coach his job with incompetence at board, recruiting and development levels. I'm frustrated at the uncertainty we now face for the remainder of the season, and that players who should be focused just on developing and playing, now also don't know their futures or their long term positions in the team. Disappointing day all round. I hope that this is the last disappointing day that we have, as all supporters have been through every emotion other than jubilation at winning games. Thanks mark for your efforts, I hope that your culture changing efforts are one day vindicated with Clark, hogan, Dawes and co leading the way to a successful period in time for the demon footy club!

Totally agree. This footy department is different. You could see how viney looked mature after a year, how Tom McDonald had put on size, Barry as has been mentioned. I think some aspects of our footy department are a lot better, and that's why some players are developing a lot better. U dont think aish will be an issue, a lot like dal santo and fyfe. He loves the contested footy too. More than Gibbs, scully, hill etc.

He isn't a silky smooth player with flashy skills. He is more your Luke ball type. I don't know that sheed is quite top 10. I reckon freo/WCE will chase him around that pick 12-16 pick. Aish is no slouch. He is a very hard working mid. Don't let his lack of size scare you. He is tough, can get his own ball and runs both ways. He has amazing skills, either finishing or finding it at the bottom of a pack. But that's why we love the u/18 champs. These players like aish and Dunstable can go head to head with sheed and we can measure them against each other. Jack Kelly in the metro squad- is he the one who was talked about as a mini draft pick last year? Can anyone say how he is going?

I saw that this morning too, jeez they would be a sight standing next to one another! One to keep an eye out for sa is Matty scharenberg. I watched him a few weeks ago as he was playing alongside a lad I know from Adelaide. Very good player. I don't know that he will make it past pick 20, obviously a long way away now though.

Not condescending at all. I found it highly engaging that someone has replied to a post of mine with something intelligent.You do raise a number of good points, however stats can be very misleading in that regard. For example, Melbourne are ranked below Sydney in clanged averages per game, and we also are more efficient per match than Adelaide, freo, Sydney and WCE. So that to me would suggest we aren't making as many mistakes. However, when you take into account what part of the oval these changers occur, you get an understanding of 1- why we aren't generating sufficient inside 50's, and 2- why teams are able to rebound and score so heavily against us. Also, you wouldn't believe, but cam pederson and James sellar actually rank 3rd and 7th for overall disposal efficiency at our club with 83 and 79% respectively. It just highlights again how stats can be misleading. Terlich sits at a respectable 73% (alongside jordie) while Dunn is around 68%. I agree with you mentioning the emotional aspect of games. The adrenaline you get from the initial "pump up" wears off early in the first quarter. Which I think is a credit to essendon that they continue to get up for games while they have the psychological issues of a pending drug investigation. Answer this though, strafford. Do you think neeld has changed his demeanour from early last lesson, comparable to now? As I posted previously, I don't think he was ever the media charming type of Paul roos. But personally I feel he has improved and doesn't throw as many big statements around a anymore, and has shown considerable more care for most of his players than previously.

Another well credentialed journalist (and I use journalist very, very loosely) writing a balanced, informed piece on a club down on its knees. I wonder if he wrote about Matt jones and his rise from suburban footballer to afl midfielder, or dean terlich making the most of his second chance on an afl list, or Nate jones improving and carrying a young midfield and playing at a very high level week in week out. Or even mentioning that casey are top of the ladder with a host of young demon players really improving and showing the future may not stay dark for as long as some people think. But alas, it's another "sky is falling in" article to keep sponsors and the common supporter thinking that the MFC are stuffed. He could also have mentioned our home games against low drawing clubs on low drawing times lots impacting on attendance. Mondays game started at 3.20. Can anyone answer why? After a long weekend, kids have school Tuesday and the game doesn't finish til 6, traffic means families don't get back until 7, 7.30. Country members don't get home for another hour or 2 after that. All factors on top of poor form. That game should start at 2.10 in my opinion.

That is one of the most ridiculous comments I've read. Don't care? How about opening your eyes to some positives and look at the bigger picture? You think the supposed "pro neeld" club is happy with big losses? Or that the demon supporter base is so divided? I am definitely not pro neeld. But I have enough footy knowledge to realise that there are positives there. Sure, your argument back will be close minded like "83 points on Monday" or my favourite "5 wins out of 36". But you don't understand just how far behind this group was before neeld, Craig and mission arrived. Everyone has said it, from neeld and Craig, to cale bloody Morton! You can't just make the human body start working 50% harder right away, or you have a situation like essendon last year with a huge soft tissue injury count. It's a gradual improvement, its standards increasing and effort increasing. Instead of playing good quarters, its a half, then 3 quarters, then a full game.If you think a new coach coming in next week would benefit anyone, you are off the mark. 14 more games with an interim coach, before a new coach next year who comes in and changes the way they play again. You just don't turn Evans, trengove, viney, blease, toumpas and Kent into 35possession, 5 clearance players overnight. But at least they have Nate jones, jack grimes and now rodan to learn from, as opposed to Moloney and other players with questionable work ethic. But they will, because individually they are hard workers and keen to improve. Which is why they were drafted. But if you keep abusing posters as not caring, just because they can find a positive and see all the change coming to the playing group and footy department that WILL make us better, then that just shows your incapability to have any open minded thinking as an individual.

That's a fantastic post. That you could reply with an actual point, as opposed to "sack neeld" is a credit to you. The unfortunate thing about experience is it can not be fast tracked. We are in a position that hasn't been seen before. Not only have we drafted poorly, but through the draft concessions and talent pool drain we haven't had that influx of players to pull us up the ladder (which st kilda, western bulldogs and Adelaide are about to find out). Not only has that stunted our improvement, but it has allowed the teams who were rebuilding at similar times to overtake us. Think of north, Richmond, Brisbane and port, all teams who have had strong leaders to fast track that development. Self belief and confidence are definitely the 2 mental challenges we are facing. I know that neeld and co say through the media that we are inexperienced and that we won't be as competitive, but I sincerely doubt he would say to the players that he doesn't think they would win. If he was saying behind closed doors to players that they can't win, well I will join in and say he should be moved on effective today. But I don't think that is the case. Last nights press conference was the first time he has mentioned the senior players skill issues. We have all been calling for Mckenzie, Dunn, sellar etc to be shafted due to that, and finally it seems the coaching group have cottoned on. I think we now draw a line through Dunn and say he is in the same boat as sellar etc, and that is that he only plays when terlich, grimes, garland or whoever are injured. I think Davis deserves a sustained run in that spot, or Strauss, and that we stop playing these sub standard senior players. as you mentioned, Matt jones and terlich have come in and played a specific role, with more physically prepared bodies for afl footy that taggert, viney, toumpas etc dont yet possess. I don't believe that any dee fan yesterday couldn't see some positives early on in terms of our intent, pressure and some pieces of ball movement. But we all saw the self belief drop when collingwood kicked the first few goals in the second term, pretty much all from turnovers or decision making issues. That self belief disappeared entirely when Dawes went down. I think it's best for our on field structures if we get some sustained run with a settled team over the next month, 6 weeks. The midfield group need to continually play together, if toumpas is going to play hbf, then leave him there for a month. Same with blease and watts across half forward. It's tough for everyone seeing 70+ losses week in week out, and it s*its me no end listening to other flogs in the media spin doom and gloom about the club. But there is no quick fix, especially when 5 of the first picked players are injured and we have just played 3 of this years top 6 teams. Neeld isn't a bloke who is easy to warm to, especially after he made decisions to cut certain players and draft some fringe players at other clubs as replacement. But I think in time, those choices will show to be correct. We've just got to keep hoping that comes sooner rather than later.

That's all you got out of what I wrote... I feel narrow minded may have been taking it easy on you, chump.

I'm here captain butterball. For all your anti-neeld posts, you fail to mention ANYTHING capable of an alternative. What, you want to throw out "get roos"? Or "get Williams?" You don't get it buddy, you just do not get it. Watch today's game, watch last week. We have a midfield that has played so little together, we have 6 of our first picked players our, but do you want to know the most damning part of that? I know this wont help your narrow minded thinking, but changing the coach tomorrow doesn't add 100 games experience to trengove, Howe, toumpas, viney, jones and Evans. It doesn't work like that!!!!! If you watched the game on tv and listened to flogs like darcy and Bruce, you won't see the picture. You won't see that players are kicking the ball blindly trying to do too much or kicking 5m behind a leading forward. It's confidence. When we look down the line and see Clark, Dawes, Howe watts or hogan, then we can be more confident to kick long. But when we ply around with it seeing fitzy (who played ok in patches, but doesn't lead hard) or davey/blease/rodan, its hard to be confident kicking long. Neeld can not be out on the ground to say "don't u-turn through traffic Dunn/davey/Sylvia, he can't say that. He is clearly instructing them to hold the footy and look for a clean pass in. But inexperience, or sheer selfishness by senior players u-turning or hand bling to players 70cm away costs us. We need to give it time. We need to practice going forward inside 70-80m from goal under pressure, we need to focus on freeing up a player with good skills outside of the pack. We need a decent run with injuries, because we haven't the depth yet to cover 6 first choice players, but most bloody importantly, we need patience. Supporters cracking the sads like you saying "7 years of bottom 4 finishes"- you bring nothing to the table. Every demon fan has had 7 years of bottom 4 finishes. But neeld is there now and has seen 35 games, after cutting soft, slack and under performing players who weren't going to take this club forward. If you can't see that we need patience, we need to stay calm and we need to stick together, then PO and follow hawthorn or Richmond. We are on the right track, we just need to add 1 or 2 mids, some experience to the 22 who play together, and our injuries to give us a break. Neeld has cut the players who were not taking us anywhere. The group we have, we keep together and add some experience, and confidence, and we will get on top of this rut. Just stop blaming 1 individual, the same as saying we are always looking for our next "saviour" and let the players play, build trust and confidence and give them some bloody support!

G'day. As I said earlier, ill post my views. I haven't read stats or anyone else's posts, but here goes. This weekend I took the Missus down the coast, and I said to her that if we didn't produce a heart felt effort, with intent and desire, after the week (18months) of anti-neeld, then I will jump ship and support the "it's time to go mark neeld" thread. I watched the first quarter thinking we were the team in contention for top 8 and collingwood were bound for the draft. We chased, harrased and tackled in numbers. When we got the footy in space, we looked infinite more damaging and likely. What cost us was 2 posters, and blease missing close by- 1.5 instead of 4.2. You can not understand the importance of scoreboard pressure when we play a team above us, especially when 1-9. The second quarter started very similar, we were all over them but they grappled a goal or 2 against the play. Dawes missed the shot from 50 out and they made us pay directly after. The thing that cost us during the second term, was going forward and instead of kicking from the wing to CHF unopposed, we threw the ball around nf got ourselves in trouble. We then turned a uncontested possession going forward 70 from goal, into a fumbled, rushed kick 50 out that went straight to a 2 on 1 or worse, and watts/fitzy etc were sheperded out and a filth player took a mark and played on down the line unopposed, resulting in a pressure free disposal straight at a filth forward. I'm not sure if they kicked 7 or 8 for the quarter, but every one of those goals came direct from our inefficiency going forward. Again, you can not measure the way that those turnovers kill morale of our players going forward. The umpires definitely hurt us with some soft frees going the filths way, and failing to reciprocate our way, but that said, the inability of several forward passes destroy any team confidence more that anything. The 3rd started with Dawes subbed out, and with that, any attacking mindset we had. We had fitzy and watts across the forward half, but we looked more dangerous going forward with facey, rodan and blease. Again, team motel was offsides by our structure breaking down, but also the ease on which collingfilth penetrated our midfield on the counter. I would hate to see a "score from turnover" stat as I feel we gifted 6-10 goals from this alone. The last quarter, cloke got some junk, and we stopped, basically from sheer exhaustion and despair. Dunn had 5 disposals in about 3 minutes, all of which turned into collingwood scoring shots. The worst thing, is instead of putting his hand up and saying "sorry boys, poor kick" he waved his arms at our midfielders and blames them for it. It's frustrating as he is a good kick, but he doesn't look at where he is kicking whatsoever!!!!! And to blame guys In the centre is a cop out, probably further depleting morale. My summary of all this probably reeks of blame. But if you are on top and playing with confidence in a quarter, you MUST make the most of your shots on goal. First quarter we were a 5 goal better team, yet went in to break with scores level. The second quarter, those same traits came to play, but collingwood took their chances early, and went up 4 goals. After half time is all irrelevant, we were out played but most importantly, we were out structured through injuries and personnel. Positives- garland smashed cloke, and t-mac made lynch look 40. He is a poor kick Tom, but he is athletic, offensive and loves defending. Keep with him as he is a great option across half back and will be damaging when we a-learn to receive his handbills, or b- kicks off 3 steps. Rodan, davey, blease and Kent. I don't know their stats, but their pressure made collingwood fumble and panic early. Inferred pressure I think it's called, and they definitely put it on early. Watts- such a waste. Not his talent, but the way he leads early at the footy, and we kick it 28m to him, but 40m high. Ill admit, I'm not a huge watts fan, as I expected more, but we do him no favours by kicking the footy to him high and wide when he leads to good position. Classic example in the 2nd quarter on the hff, we stuffed around and instead of kicking direct, he got an under pressure bounce pass from 30m away. When he was on 2 opponents. We are doing his footy smarts no favours. He actually hit the body hard today, and I feel that we are a good team going forward with him as our 3rd or 4th option. He hit the post early and had another miss by a bees foreskin, he could've had 2 at 1/4 time. Matt jones, toumpas, Howe, Sylvia and Nate jones- these are our midfielders, add viney and grimes, as well as this years additions. These guys use the footy well and run to great position. The trouble is, our skills and our decision making prior to getting it in their hands!!!! If anyone saw Sylvia run to position ahead of fitzy today, but fitzy hit him with a hand pass 1m behind him, you will know why he isn't a top line player. He ran to the right spot, he got offensive and we just burnt him. That said, he put great pressure on and got to some dangerous spots. Nate jones deserved 5 frees minimum, but he got burnt by being the guy chasing the footy and going harder than all of the filth mids. He is a star, but also, a work horse who does not sulk or change his game on. By the scoreboard. Ill mention trengove, as I think he is playing well. But he is slightly burnt by his own limitations- pace, first option giving and disposal inside f60. But he is a player, and if we can get him a yard quicker, or get him out of the rotations and keep him kicking forward, he will come good. Pederson was ok, gives a few frees away, but depth player... Negatives- ruck- jamar was all over jolly, yet he mistimes his run, or palmed it straight to a filth jumper!!!! So frustrating. We need him to demand the ball around ground as we need the target with no Dawes Clark or marking midfielder without Howe lurking. Mckenzie, tries hard, but he leaves us a player down offensively. Turnovers and decision making are our biggest killer. We run to great spots, yet the player with the ball tries too much, or kicks to a 2-1 and spoils it, and our opposition runs forward while we are offensively positioned and it just kills us. You can't let teams get an uncontested possession in our back half when we are on the march, they score so easily. This isn't a coaching problem, this is a football problem- dont kick off one step, leaning backwards, don't handball 2m to your defensive side to a player shepherding- if you have the ball and under pressure- KICK THE BLOODY THING LONG, High and put the defender under pressure!!!!!!! We are on the right track. Add frawley, Clark, Dawes, grimes, viney and another midfielder and a small forward, as well as a good kicking medium defender, we are on the right track. The tv doesn't give the right indicators, we were the better team in first half, we came to play, we chased and pressured. But, we just showed inexperience and decision making errors.

Boys and girls, I'm at the game, first quarter in behind our goals, second quarter watched from hff. First off, I will say that we have been man on man all over the ground at most times. Even towards the end of this quarter. Ill mention the umpires being maggots, but that is a direct insult to maggots. Our effort is very high. Our run and spread is also very high. The thing about afl footy, is when you run and spread offensively and you turn the footy over heading into f50, you leave the back half of the ground as wide open as a bad girls knees. What's shown is exactly that, 4 or 5 times that half we went forward and turned it straight over at our CHF, and they went straight through us. No coaching can help change bad decision making upon forward 70m entries. Ill give you a full run down later, but watts has run hard and played well, but jeez we burn him with disposal going to him...