Generation dee

Pedersen stuffed up a couple but he has been alright. Kent has just that nice bit of Kent in him doesn't he!! He will be a player. Strauss has had some good moments. I think next year we will thank neeld for jones terlich etc when we are a more competitive. There are enough signs there. One thing noticed more today, a lot more passion when a bloke kicks a goal too.

If you reckon Dawes isn't worth it, just watch his last few minutes. Absolute hard worker of the highest order. Sure he has missed a few today, but he has set up so much and provided such a great target. The new coach can rest assured knowing Clark and Dawes will work bloody well together.

Anyone got anything to say bout watts coming on like he had measles and avoiding his teammates?

That's exactly right. There is no quick fix. Even culling bail, rodan, Mckenzie etc still doesn't guarantee immediate improvement. Unless we replace them with pendlebury, Thomas and fyfe. If everyone could grasp that, we could all wallow in despair together. And what the hell is watts doing?????

Might be clutching at straws, but the intent is a lot bloody higher than we've seen all year. But Dawes misses that, then a bail miskick, they just break spirit.

He sure is. Which means Kent gets a chance to get some early footy with the sting still in the game. Anyone at the game today?

No one can categorically say he can't coach, or he is incompetent. We very easily forget some match day moves he has made that were inspired at the time (watts back last year, garland forward, Dunn defensive) but ill agree with his man management blowing up in his face. As I said in my last post, no one can confirm or deny If cam schwab or others came to neeld and said we need to cut Moloney and rivers, and be harder on players.

For all my efforts at shooting you down, it's only been due to no respect being shown for neeld and his efforts at implementing that cultural change that the board asked him to. Now, this club has effectively black marked another coach (along with bailey) incompetent. Which is frustrating as neeld has shown at collingwood and previous, that he is a very competent coach. Perhaps he was too heavy handed, perhaps the board told him to cut Moloney etc. we won't know that. But I think it's safe to say that whoever has leaked this information must be held accountable, that this playing group still needs to work harder, or individually they will go down as unfulfilled and mediocre. If this is accurate, best of luck neeldy.

Just shows why junior deserved 1 more year. Also shows why the jacks were appointed, there was such a gulf in leadership, we didn't even have that "stop gap" option. Not one with the same credentials as vandenberg, or even Kane Johnson/Chris Newman. That reason, that's why I'm comfortable about the long term position on field. We've finally got structures to deal with development and leadership, guys who will build to that expectation of how "elite" teams train and play. Jeez it's frustrating watching now though!

I've waited for someone to mention our form in comparison to hawthorn/WCE/collingwood In each of these teams case, there was an abundance of experienced players with 120-160 games under their belt. Players who weren't necessarily stars or match winners, but players who you could guarantee 100% effort, leadership and commitment. When Richie vandenberg was appointed hawks captain epitomises that. The media called it strange, yet he was exactly what Sam Mitchell, Luke hodge, brad Sewell and Jordan Lewis still showcase to this day- tough, accountable football. West coast in the early 2000's had similar. Ben cousins, for all his flaws, was a terrific mentor and an astute trainer. Put simply, Melbourne just haven't had that leadership. In no way do I mean any disrespect to yze, Robertson, white or any of those players, we haven't had a expectation of tough, uncompromising leaders to learn off or set the standard for the next generation coming through. I still remember an article on travis Johnstone, when he lived with Paul hopgood, and hopgood would get up Sunday and go for a run, but Johnstone would sit on the couch playing play station and eating cc's (his own words). I just thought that highlighted why we were inconsistent from probably 2000 onwards. It's been until now where we have become aware of our "leaders" not being capable of applying that standard.

Bingo!

Couldn't find 2 better posts highlighting the fact we need to stick together.

Totally agree. While its easy for us as supporters, or coaches for that matter, to imply players to take the game on, run and harass, I guess the mindset of a player aged 19-25, like most of our list, will often change due to nerves, fear and intimidation based on the scoreboard, media and how we have gone for the past few years. Nicholson is a good example of that. You can't doubt his fitness nor his application, and jeez do I get frustrated with him, but the guy makes quite a few errors by foot- it would have to play on your mind and affect your confidence. I know myself, I'm struggling marking overhead at the moment, and all of a sudden you become a bit more reactive, you start thinking about marking on your chest, or where your opponent is. Clearly, some of our players are feeling that too! Can you give an insight into how. Neeld talks when he isn't in front of a camera? Is he as assertive, or is he gradually "softening" in his demeanour?

Agree completely. At least give us the chance to put some scoreboard pressure on. It's so frustrating when we have a good 4-6 minutes of play, yet only jag 1 goal, or keep breaking down in the forward third due to no options.

It's a credit to you that you haven't fallen for GNF's vomit. The more people who realise there is a long term plan in place, and a whole club overhaul. The more we dig deep now and stay strong, the more rewarding it will be when we push back up the ladder.

Without using Damien Barrett or Caroline Wilson, or any of the media backwash we hear, to back your claims, can you prove our "toxic culture" as you have alluded to? Proof. Your incessant rants deserve at least an explanation.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33930-collingwood-chasing-sylvia/page-5 You used Moloney, rivers and Martin all leaving as a direct result of the coach. No if's, but's or maybe's. In my eyes, you are no better than the flesh-eating journalists looking for a easy target to feast on. That you are upset mark neeld is pushing culture change, and forcing the weeds out (Moloney etc) so that the roses (jones, Howe, garland, viney, hogan etc) can bloom, shows a distinct ignorance to where the on field problems previously bred. The ceiling for growth was so minor pre neeld, in comparison to now. There is a genuine unity in the playing group, there are no rats who want to undermine senior officials and a categorical "one in all in" mindset. The past is done, we've covered that numerous times. That you can't see similarities between how Al Clarkson and Mark Thompson cleared out players who were detrimental to unity and team growth, is disappointing. The outsiders who feel that the club is worse off without gysberts, Moloney, petterd etc, may well be right in the short term. However, later this year, we will all see the growth and development that we are craving (and have been for 7 years). This was a proper "ground up rebuild". When Peter Jackson comes out and endorses mark neeld, but fine tunes the lines of communication and isolates the uncertainty, watch how this club turns around on and off field. Watch How we stay in games longer and put more pressure on opposition teams. Watch how our players link up better and control the footy more consistently. We are a lot closer than anyone can see, unfortunately the same shallow minded journalists who today pot the club, will be the same ones who heap praise on Craig, or Lyon, or Mission. Say what you want about mark neeld GNF, he put his own reputation on the line a early on, and since then he has dealt with media, ex- players who were the root of the problems, and supporters like yourself, who have all tried to undermine him. It's a matter of when, not if, we start producing results on field. If you are that despondent with how our senior team is playing, head down to casey and see some of the future players coming through, and the game plan they are implementing.

You've called bs at me a few times now champ. Have a little balance to your views. You've used Stef Martin walking out and the "pending" walk out of several other players. Only col Sylvia can walk out as a free agent, and if watts doesn't re-sign, good riddance as he hasn't proven himself as yet. Your one eyed anti neeld propaganda is slanderous, repetitive and put simply, you are a muppet. Put some credence to what you are saying, as currently you base it on 1 "player manager who you are BFFs with". Are you even a member? Or you are one of those who thinks you help the club by not paying up, and instead spin vitriol to whoever is willing to listen to you vile?

But we won 8.5 games that year and almost played finals!!! And some weeks we looked good! In all seriousness, dean bailey was just a continuation of neale daniher's "unaccountable" last 2 years of reign. Effectively the rebuild started in October last year. Gnf can rant all he likes about neeld, we were 5 years stagnated before neeld come on board. At least we have guidelines and plans now. Longer term we are in better shape on field.

Cheap shot? That's a little hypocritical. Where were you when Moloney was on afl360? Nowhere to be seen... That you think Brent Moloney deserves any form of defence or protection is exactly what's wrong with Melbourne supporters culture right now. He left, he didn't want to play for the club. He wanted to play for Brent Moloney. Good riddance to him and if you wish to keep sulking about the past, good riddance to you also, sir.

Mark neeld had all the runs on the board before he was appointed.

I don't think we have "failed to choose a good coach" fitter, that neeld has a terrific history at ocean grove and collingwood shows the opposite. Dean bailey is an interesting one, maybe he was 5 years early with his method. I think it's more that we have chosen a coach who didn't fit the players we had on the list. Bailey tried to mould players with attacking flair who were on average taller and good on the spread, but at the expense of hard working defence and without the body density to be stron over the ball. Unfortunately when neeld has come on board, he has tried to swing too far towards the "100% effort" type player who competes hard, but unfortunately at the expense of the attacking playmaking style. It's all about balance, unfortunately we have swung too far in either direction. I genuinely believe mark neeld is a good coach, but with where we find ourselves now, I don't think he is the right fit for us. That said, I still think he has changes from the ultra authoritarian style he was, and now I feel he is a lot more of the trusting, protective style of coach. I'm lucky that through school, I'm friends with several players who are at different clubs around the country. The reason Sydney and Paul roos were such a great fit is because Paul protected his players, whether that was onfield or whether it was just his demeanour of dealing with players who may have been homesick, struggling with off field issues or whatever. Examples of that are something like having a player and family around for a BBQ, frequent calls or texts just saying g'day or offering encouragement or advice on issues from living away from home, lifestyle or development. For the same reason as that, I can guarantee you that collingwood is the exact opposite of that, with a lot less welfare or support and as such, why they are down a bit since Buckley took over. I still hope that neeld can turn it around, for the reasons I have mentioned. That said, hawthorn and collingwood games will show everyone exactly how bad they want him to stay on, or not.

Now hang tight just a moment. Without pointing the finger at individual posters here who have changed their tone now, it's common knowledge we all felt a coach with a harder edge was necessary. Mark neeld came with not only glowing endorsement from mick malthouse and several senior collingwood players and staffers. The board then put an invitation to Neil Craig to join under the role of general manager of sports performance.. Neil Craig had offers from Brisbane, collingwood and Richmond, yet picked the role with Melbourne as the most succinct, but also the greatest challenge. We then poached Dave mission as manager of elite performance. Add to that the array of experience assistant coaches and line/development coaches, its disappointing to sit here and read quotes from posters that the board is responsible for the current uncompetitive situation which the club finds itself in. There isn't a supporter who could currently say they are happy we are 1-8 with a average losing margin of 75 points and a grand total of 6 quarters won from 36. There isn't a supporter that would say they are happy with every article about the club containing words "pathetic, rabble and irrelevant". Don't sit here and think that players don't care, that coaches don't care, that anyone involved with the club on game day doesn't care that we are so uncompetitive at this point. Do many posters here understand the hours players put in just to make it on a list? It is a fallacy to think they would do that, just to get on a list and be content with 90 point thrashings. For all WYLs rantings its only because he is frustrated with where we are at, GNF for all his doomsday talk it is equally because he is frustrated with where we are at. Rhino, jaded, young dee, old dee; the list goes on. We are all frustrated that we aren't in the top 4, that we have been smashed on and off field this year, but we must hang in together. This club has had too many splintering factions over the past decades. We can't let Supporters and members leave the club or not go go to games in protest. I apologise for this post getting emotional, I'm as frustrated as the rest of you guys.

I liked that post, then unliked it, just so I could like it again! Cale, we don't have a Darren glass... It was meant to be you. You were a young player drafted very early, you showed leadership as an underage player. You didn't apply yourself cale..

What exactly, do you feel, is inaccurate of what mark neeld has said?