Ted Lasso

Wines played well in a good side, Jimmy struggled to get the ball in a team that struggled to get the ball, but that doesn't mean in any way shape or form that Jimmy can't be a good player in his own right, and to say there is no way he can be is an unfounded prediction, players have been accused of being soft before and gone on to be stars.

Don't underestimate this, if Toumpas was in Geelong or the Hawks side he would have looked alot better than he was ever going to last year for us

I firmly believe it was a handshake deal involved in our trade with Jesse Hogan, alot of people believed we paid overs and i agree

The immature kid who needed hip surgery was captain of his state, had been playing senior footy for 2 years before he was drafted, was considered a top 2 pick for most of the year and we already had jack viney as a more highly rated inside mid than wines, the doggies would have also drafted toumpas if we went for someone else

Hogan isn't training at all right now and i don't believe Dawes has been with the main group in a long while, reckon Fitzy, Pederson and Howe will be our forward targets

I understand what you mean OD but you don't hear Geelong saying why aren't first year draftee's impacting games, freo's first year draftee last year played one game, they get significantly more exposure at MFC and alot of the time it's far too early, but because we are sick of losing if they players can't walk off the street and make the step up in round 1 we have selected badly. having said that i would have taken Wines because Wines and Viney would have been our engine room for the next decade but we have Jimmy

He was fine with the hard ball at junior level and in the SANFL, i reckon it's a confidence thing, but i will give him 3 years before i will write him off totally, wouldn't be the first player who hasn't been great in their first year and come good in a big way

I understand your stance WYL but do you reckon it's a little unfair to totally write a young bloke off after one season? just because Wines is good doesn't mean Jimmy won't match him in time

I seriously doubt it, Roos will want someone who will just keep the game plan flowing, which is why Rawlings is in the box seat

It's all totally irrelevant now, we have Jimmy Toumpas and Jack Viney and i see no reason both can't be good players for us, Toumpas is rated extremely highly by Roos and Stone

You did when you said " you're just exposing yourself as having zero balance and perspective " when i said Viney had been more impressive than wines Wines had the luxury of being 4th or 5th in line in ports midfield where as Viney was 2nd in line, and the difference in pressure from playing for Port who were winning to being another one of our saviours would have been enormous, i think we can agree these are two potential future stars/captains and will be constantly compared over their careers

Someone needs to give the poor bloke a cuddle

I always thought Trenners needs to be at the stoppages and centre bounces! he has always been a luke ball style inside mid

exactly he has a quick first couple of steps after that he isn't much above average

No i just presented you with the basis of my argument, their stats are almost exactly the same only viney is doing it with no support in a terrible midfield making it far more impressive than Wines doing it in a very strong midfield with a finals level of support around him, every touch, Jack Viney was effectively playing as our second best mid from round 1 and still dished out performances like that, the other thing to consider is our team was often being beaten in disposals by well over 100, he has significantly less opportunity to get the ball. i'm saying to say jack viney isn't even in the ball park is just wrong, if he was playing at port i think we'd be talking about Viney in exactly the same way people talk about Wines.

Viney had 17.5 average disposals per game as opposed to Wines 18.8 average and average 3.9 tackles per game, but he did it with no support in a team that was getting belted out of the middle week in week out, he also averaged 4.2 tackles per game which is very good for a first year player, including a best of 28 touches, 5 marks, 5 tackles and a goal in a 95 point loss to fremantle, while Ollie Wines was no doubt impressive i think the fact Viney did what he did with next to no support makes him more impressive, Wines had Boak and Kornes and co supporting him, Viney was copping tags in games because we only had Nathan Jones as the only other potentially damaging mid. wines best game was 25 touches 5 tackles and 2 goals in a game where port belted adelaide by 8 goals

I agree OD the best thing Blease and Strauss can do for us is somehow get us a couple of extra 3rd or 4th round picks at the trade table

OUCH.

Jack Viney has been more impressive than Ollie for me, in round 1 Viney should have got the rising star nod over Wines, he does all wines can do but will pace and better skills

we do, but that's the nature of the game i think, i probably would have taken Wines, i like the idea of Wines and Viney forming our engine room for the next 10 years, but that said i wasn't shocked and upset we went the other way, now i just hope we can develop Jimmy into an A grade mid

Or alternatively we need him to improve his ruck work significantly, we can't just keep turing over young players, eventually one has to develop and hold that spot down

I remember being shocked at the time we didn't take Darling, he was rated close to pick 1 aside from being abit of an idiot off field, thought we would swoop in and grab a bargain key forward to go with Watts

the recruiters who chose Toumpas also managed, Terlich, Matt Jones, Geourgiou, Kent, they have hardley missed a beat so far, and Todd Viney was like Ollie Wines second father, but they also knew Jimmy extremely well from SA footy, there is no one more informed in Australia to make the decision between those two and they are backing Toumpas to become a better player than Wines Wines was ready to go, victorian so no go home factor, hungry to play with his best mate, it all fitted that we took Wines but they still choose toumpas, hopefully Jimmy is good enough to show us why over time, right now he needs to get back to the VFL and remember what it's like to enjoy his footy and focus on developing for now

It's interesting that some of our players haven't developed at all and others have developed into good players, examples like Nathan Jones, Jack Grimes, James Frawley, Colin Garland and Jeremy Howe would all get games at other clubs, blokes like Lynden Dunn, Tom Mcdonald, Jack Trengove and Jack Watts have become solid contributers, what concerns me is james Strauss, Luke Tapscott, Jordan Gysberts, Cale Morton, Sam Blease, Lucas Cook all of which are first round picks and none could lay claim to holding a spot in the best 22 of any list in the AFL in the past 10 years, these blokes should be at the very least role players in the best 22, have we picked badly or does our program not get the best out of blokes like this Jack Trengove, Jimmy Toumpas and Jack Watts to date have not reached the expectations placed apon them but all are still young and have the opportunity to turn things around, Trenners and Watts are showing signs they might be ready to show significant improvement Dom Tyson, Jack Viney and Jesse Hogan look like stars in the making but so did Trenners in his first year the thing that concerns me is the players taken after the blokes mentioned above Luke Tapscott was followed by Nat Fyfe, Ryan Bastinac, Jake Carslile, Jack Gunstan, Mitch duncan Jordan gysberts was followed by all of those and daniel tahlia and lewis jetta Lucas cook was followed by Billy smedts, Shaun Atley, luke parker, jack darling Sam Blease and James Strauss could have been Luke Shuey and david Zaharakis or Dane Beams and Dan Hannebry or Steven Motlop and Rory Sloane Cale Morton was followed by Patrick Dangerfield, Cyril RIoli, Scott Selwood, Callan Ward Development aside our recruiting has been shockingly bad, I also heard reports training standards under Bailey were far below par, and Neelds were much better but perhaps to based around fitness and not enough around basic Skills

I love how he chases down and tackles mids, that sort of effort is fantastic from a big bloke