Lucifers Hero

Is it coaching?

I have mentioned Tim O'Brien in several posts but I think his game is worth more discussion as he really hurt us - in part because our defenders didn't pay him enough respect and he was able to dominate the forward line: He took 10 marks, had 5 hitouts and kicked 2 goals. He is 23yo and played only 20 games and I wondered where he has been hiding. The HFC website says: " After four games in 2014, the key forward couldn’t back it up with a senior berth in 2015, but was solid up forward all year for Box Hill as he continues to serve the time-honoured Hawthorn apprenticeship". He is the quintessential ruck/forward a perfect complement to Roughy. O'Brien is the type of player we desperately need. We could have won every game if we had such a player (no I don't think Watts is that player - he is needed elsewhere). Anyway, he made me think of Weideman and how quick some posters have been to judge him. The disadvantage Weideman has vs O'Brien is being a high draft pick so people expect him to perform earlier rather than later. O'Brien shows the benefit of proper development...hope our coaches are paying attention and don't rush Weideman back. My hope is Goodwin makes Weideman into a player who can be our ruck/forward in a few years.

I thought Jesse had a good game given recent events. He competed well. Took some good marks. He was double tagged and had a loose defender in front preventing him leading. And he still kicked 3.3. on a day when we couldn't get the ball very far into the f50. Importantly, he took poor umpiring decisions in his stride and had some good second efforts. Not bad given he had a stop/start to the year, playing only 3 games before yesterday so his match fitness would have been down. Naturally, he seemed subdued but I thought it was terrific how he fronted up yesterday and kept his head up regardless of how things went on the field. I am very confident that in time we will see him achieve the potential he showed in 2015. I wouldn't be surprised if at some stage this year he wins a game off his own boot.

First use can be an advantage but not always - we won the clearances yesterday (and last week). I had a sense that Hawthorn 'let us win' the clearances only to attack the ball carrier, spill it loose and run away with it. First use isn't much good if we can't get it out of the center square. With the exception of McEvoy we were taller than the Hawks. They marked (newbie O'Brien took 10) whereas we spoiled, ineffectively. It wasn't lack of height that hurt us, especially after they lost Birchall. They had 9 scoring shots in the first qtr we had 2. The ball didn't get close enough to the goals to even rush behinds or to miss deliberate shots for goal. That is where and when we lost the game. I doubt having Gawn yesterday would have prevented that appalling 30 minutes. So yes, we miss Gawn but his absence isn't the reason we lost to Freo and Hawthorn.

Just for the record - with the exception of McEvoy we were taller, especially after Birchall withdrew injured. Its just that their talls took marks and were more effective. (Don't know who was playing on O'Brien who took 10 marks (and he has only played 18 games)). Not enough respect to a newish player. They had a 5 goal head start at half time. We left our run too late - another 5 minutes and we would have won. They aren't that good and it is another game that got away.

Sadly, whoever wins the Freo Ess game will go above us on the ladder. Just hope it isn't Ess. Edit: Thankfully Freo got it done in the last qtr - Freo 6.4. Ess 0.1

Hey Col, the game is also on Ch 7. Hopefully it rains today which will bring McEvoy down to size, so to speak. We match up fairly well in terms of height with the rest of their team. Contested ball is their weakness and the rain will tire their ageing legs more than ours. So lots of advantages for us. And, yep the team has a lot to play for and if they bring enough hunger they will get the job done.

If ever people don't understand why a player is not selected we only need to read this: "It's all about tough love...He holds us to account," Salem says of Goodwin....It's one thing asking for something and not rewarding or punishing, but he's really set on his standards and we all love that about him...If we're not doing the team thing, or what he wants at that time, it comes down to selection." http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/christian-salem-at-the-heart-of-demons-rebuild--brick-by-brick-20170506-gvzm6m.html Therein lies a culture the likes of which we haven't seen at our club for a very long time - Goodwin 'walks the talk.'

That's true but we had other defenders who could do the job till we developed/recruited better options. While all the permutations were not known Melksham's limitations were. And we didn't have to give him a 4 year contract. Now we are stuck with him till end 2019. He is rapidly becoming a depth player and if not careful will be a list clogger, taking up valuable salary cap.

Yep! Big tick for Goody in my book - everyone has to earn their spot, no exceptions!

In: Hogan, Stretch, Kent, Wagner Out: Jake Melksham I/C (from): Christian Salem, Dom Tyson, Billy Stretch, Dean Kent, Alex Neal-Bullen, Oscar McDonald, Josh Wagner Surprised but pleased to see Melksham out. He just hasn't done enough to stay in. A bit of culling of the bench.

I will assume you haven't heard the sad news of Jesse's father passing and what Jesse has been going thru for the past year. (If you did know then that post is inapproriate and in poor taste). And, yes he is an enourmous part of our team. His teammates love him. He has shown great stoicism in very trying circumstances. He deserves our support, even if it is a fan forum. Jesse will come back when he is ready and I'm sure he will get a standing ovation.

Fair enough. TBH I'm not sure either of them are best 22 if we ever have a fully fit list to choose from. Others on our list are ahead of both.

Gee Wise, it may be a little harsh on JKH. 2 games in over a year isn't much to go on so maybe he needs a bit more time. I can see you are keen on Kent but I'm not sure he is performing too well as a forward either. He has averaged 1 goal per game. For someone who doesn't do the defensive things well nor the 'team first' things that is hardly a good scoreboard record. He may get a game here and there but he needs to do a bit of work on both the scoreboard and defence. Consistent defensive work would be a good start. And I'm not sure it is Kent vs JKH. As noted earlier, there are 3 or 4 competing for the same spot.

Agreed od...the solution is elsewhere. I can see that when Wagner and Stretch are back it frees Salem up to move up the ground. He is too good to hide him in a pocket but he can certainly kick goals and is outstanding defensively. So I see every chance he and Petracca rotate thru the midfield/forward. Then Kent, ANB, JKH and Bugg will be fighting it out for a spot. (I would add Melksham but we know his protected status, at least for a while. To me Hannah has done enough this year to own a spot until some plays well enough at Casey to dislodge him). Of the 4 atmo I think ANB is in front as he seems to do the 'team first' things all the time. Kent is selfish and just wants to kick goals and will play defensively when it suits him. I don't think he can be relied on to do it consistently. Bugg will be a week to week propostion based on match up requirements or injuries. With JKH, I don't have a read on yet after only 2 games but feel he should be given a good run at it.

They are two examples. I don't know how statisticians measure it but it also includes: smother, spoil, ground ball contest, shepherd, chase and others I can't think of right now. bb I think it is a legit basis to measure a player's contribution. How often do we hear a coach say: "its what you do when you don't have the ball that counts". Well, when a player doesn't have the ball his only arsenal is 'pressure acts'. Obviously, different players have different primary roles in teams. Early, last year I heard Kent say his job in the team was forward 'pressure acts'. I suspect the likes of ANB, Bugg and JKH have similar jobs. Don't get me wrong all players must have a defensive side especially in the forward line but more of that is expected of those given that specific role. So if these guys don't kick any goals or have many possessions but have a high rating for the 'pressure acts' Goodwin and co value, they will be first picked simply because they are doing what is asked of them.

In that case may I, on your behalf, ask D'Landers to help with the Hunt and Wagner sponsorships. I love the idea of supporting them and the club - I certainly spend more than enough time on DL so get my money's worth. So Demonlanders, if you can dig a little deeper its going to a good cause.

@Demonland Are you paying for the Hunt and Wagner sponsorship on behalf of Demonland from your own pocket? If so maybe increase the target further. I think I already have a Life subscription so will donate shortly.

Petracca makes TOTW on the bench. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-02/team-of-the-week-r6-did-we-get-it-right Not bad for a guy who has played about 20 games and playing on one of the top FB in the game and playing sore. Well done! He has announced himself with that complete game. His breakout game will be far better and is yet to come. Something to really look forward to. Then another, and another and...

I think we do...they go underground when Watts is going well. But a hint of something NQR and they come out of the woodwork - see the preseason Jack Watts thread. A minority now but quite vocal when it suits.

In that case, other than the 3+3 it looks like the coaches saw performances quite differently! I wonder which was which...

The Coaches Votes should put to bed some of the debate around Tom Mc and Tyson: 6 Hurley 6 Oliver 6 Watts 4 T McDona'd 4 Petracca 2 Tyson 2 Viney Bit surprised by Hurley, great first half then was taken out of the game. Good to see Watts get some recognition from the coaches. The real news - Oliver is second on the leader board. 42 Rory Sloane (Adel) 31 Clayton Oliver (Melb) 31 Joel Selwood (Geel) 29 Ollie Wines (PA) 29 Elliot Yeo (WC) 26 Gary Ablett (GCS) 25 Dustin Martin (Rich) 23 Zach Merrett (Ess) 22 Marcus Bontempelli (WB) 22 Luke Shuey (WC) What else can one say about our little champ. He is in elite company. What is most impressive is his consistency.

Crikey, 'Skuit' that review was pre Roos'! And yes we were badly managed in every way back then. That is chalk and cheese to the Pedersen quotes I posted attributed to Macca and Goodwin this preseason. Our people management has come a long way and I reckon they have done a terrific job with Pedersen.

In the Match Preview thread I suggested a creative ruck solution might be to have different ruckman for the 3 parts of the ground (front, middle, back) to share the load and to wear out Bellchambers as he hadn't played for 18 months. It seems that is how it came to panned out: Pedersen: "We planned really well for it. We kind of threw three ruckmen at him knowing he hadn't played for 700 days or something," http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-01/hungry-pedersen-fills-dees-ruck-void The 62-gamer paid tribute to the support he received from Tom McDonald and Jack Watts in restricting Bellchambers' influence. On a different note, there is an interesting insight into our game plan to rove to Bellchambers. "My focus was just to try and jump into him and limit his hits and try and ensure he could only hit inside a certain triangle that we could defend," (Hope Pedersen isn't giving too much info away there...) Very clever stoppage planning by the coaches carried out to perfection by our guys.

Are you sure you want The No T$ No B$ Thread deleted Sorry, you led with your chin there Biff!