Lucifers Hero

We have not recruited for skill! So surprise, surprise we have skill issues! For four years the recruiting policy has been 'competitive' players. One I totally support and was an absolutely essential policy for a team that played 'bruise free'. So, we don't have enough silky skills of some other teams (exceptions, Salem, Watts and Lewis). There is a big gap to the next level of skill. We have what we recruited; a team of competitive players. Hawthorn on the other hand have for over a decade, recruited on the basis of excellent kicking skills and made them 'unsociable' footballers. Our coaches try and overcome our lack of skill with game plan, structures and positioning but these work when the game is being played on your terms. Last night we saw our lack of skills exposed when the game is played on the opposition's terms. Tbh, I can live with the poor disposal especially under pressure. But something seriously lacking is decision making skills and football nouse which can't be easily taught. (Noteworthy exceptions, again are Salem, Watts, Lewis). Turnovers are more often the result of poor decisions rather than poor disposal skills. Not sure what the answer is but sadly, our skills problem will continue.

An interesting time line is evolving: Nov 14, 2014 Elliot claims that is when he was asked to arrange a meeting with Gatto. "In November 2014 I was asked ... to set up a meeting off-site with Mick Gatto, who was an external well-known dispute resolution specialist,'' Elliott alleged. "The purpose of the meeting was in regard to obtaining information from Shane Charter,.." Nov 20, 2014 Gatto says he had tried to sell Carter's story to the media. Carter wanted $400,000. No takers. EFC also declined the offer. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/mick-gatto-says-he-was-enlisted-to-spruik-shane-charters-untold-story-to-media/news-story/90e3281926eac55da82b57d26f6adefd Gatto doesn't say when he did the spruiking but it is highly likely that his spruiking is what led to EFC asking Elliot to arrange a Gatto meeting. The article you quote shows that Salvo arranged such a meeting between EFC reps (including Xavier Campbell) and Carter which appears to have occurred late Nov to early Dec 2014. Early December, 2014 Carter refuses to appear at the AFL Tribunal. Another EFC cover up brewing? Update: The HS is reporting Gatto said he was approached by a senior Essendon official but it would be 'unprofessional' to say who (LOL). So much for Tanner's comment that they did not have 'dealings' with Gatto. Elliot's statement is looking more credible.

Looks like my posts were very close to the mark re the allegations being known to EFC some time ago, the demands and threats having some substance and that a settlement will be negotiated. Tim Watson: “I’ve been aware of this for a while, in as much as I had a conversation with someone at the club and they said, look at some point this may surface,” Watson told SEN...“This is what’s going on, it’s all broken down and there is a threat that they’ll take the information they have to the press...“There’s been a breakdown in the negotiations and then there’s been threats about, OK this is the course of action we will take now, from here on in..." Based on that, EFC going to the police seems a red herring. ...and as for Mick Gatto. Calls a press conference to say I have nothing to say so watch The Footy Show tonight!: http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/underworld-twist-in-essendon-drugs-saga/news-story/4c891a2e0afe93b7eec2808d05d0b9df I certainly won't be watchiing!

Yep...EFC have learnt their lesson, right? 'Must Keep Records' is the new mantra (when it helps against their enemies!) Maybe, Elliot and Wallis kept their own records, for a rainy day perhaps . Their alleged 'inappropriate demands and threats' would have to based on something otherwise EFC would not have called in the police... ...watch this space for an early settlement of the 'Worksafe claim'. EFC don't want copies of records the dogs ate mysteriously turning up on a journo's desk...

The police! May as well have reported it to the janitor! Leading Essendon connections/supporters: Current EFC Club Chairman: Ex Federal ALP Minister Current EFC Club Director: Ex Chief Commissioner of Police, Victoria Victorian Premier Victorian Governor Past No 1 ticket holder: Ex Federal Liberal Treasurer/Deputy Prime Minister I don't have much confidence the Police finding concrete evidence to support Wallis or Elliot's worksafe claims. But they may well find sufficient evidence to support Tanner's complaint of 'inappropriate demands and threats'. The little guys don't usually win when faced with the might of the big end of town.

The AFL website article: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-03-09/dons-deny-club-reached-out-to-underworld-figure It quotes Lindsay Tanner as saying: "Allegations of ... dealings with Mick Gatto are false. Inappropriate demands and threats made upon Essendon Football Club have been reported to the AFL integrity department and on its advice, Victoria Police have been contacted." Elliot's allegation is reported to be a request for a meeting with Gatto, not 'dealings' as Tanner puts it. Elliot is not alleging a meeting or 'dealings' took place so he may be correct. I could guess what the 'demands and threats' were! Does anyone else get a sense those were made some time ago and the Worksafe claim is a result of no satisfaction from EFC. Wallis and Elliot are disgruntled. It seems most other people walked away with a bit of coin in their pockets but they didn't. A Worksafe claim for stress is their way of getting it. The bombers should have paid them off as well. Popcorn time again!

Someone was certain to spill the beans at some stage. Looks like it is only just starting! Wallis has always played mean not caring who he hurt in the process. Hasn't changed. Just hope our coach is not brought up in the allegations related to staff injecting. The AFL declared him innocent so not a problem but that wouldn't stop media making a fuss if they want to deflect attention. Goodwin is now the most senior ex Ess person still in the AFL so would be an easy target. It would be a terrible distraction for us.

Agreed, Jones comments put it in a new light. All the comments from the club had been that Watts had not met his KPI's so has not been selected. Some people on this forum have interpreted the club's comments to mean he has slackened off, not done the work or came back for the preseason underdone/unfit. And a great hue and cry has broken out on here as a result of those interpretations. None of those interpretations have been substantiated. Jones has made it clear Jack has not met the KPI's where the benchmark was raised to 'the next step' for Jack and go beyond what he achieved in 2016. Not getting to the next level is different to slackening off etc

My comment about the survey being flawed is not related to who I think should be in the top 50. I don't know the players well enough. Certainly in the 35 there are some eyebrow raisers. But I do know who are considered champions of our game who aren't there and they can't all be in the last 15 as my earlier post showed. Hence the conclusion the survey is flawed. The other reason for saying it is flawed is because the authors don't give any information about the 'sample composition/participants' and without getting technical, how 'statistically representative' it is. If its not statistically valid, conclusions cannot be drawn with a high degree of confidence. Regardless, I'm delighted our 4 players are recognised.

Only AFL players voted for the top 50 but the reporter never says how many players responded or the %'age of players from each team...so, maybe all EFC players voted and only voted for team mates! (btw 3 from EFC were drug cheats). Failing that one wonders what the voting AFL players were thinking. WB fluked the Premiership (big statement I know) but they don't have that many 'stars' so not surprised to not see too many in the top 50. And not much room for their players in the top 15. Most likely are: The Bonte, Stringer, Libber, Murphy... So none of the 44, 2016 Grand Finalists are on the list (yet) and only 15 spots to go (and still need to include Kennedy (Eagles variety), Rance, Dusty, Selwood, Danger, Fyfe, Pendlebury, Ablett (?) etc). By my reckoning that leaves a max of 8 spots for the grand finalists, 2 of which go to Buddy and Kennedy (Swans variety). That leaves 6 spots for WB and the rest of the Swans. My conclusion: the survey is seriously flawed!

Not sure, but I don't think we still have any Board Members or Senior Management that were with MFC when Jim Stynes died. Most of them probably never met him. Yet, they see it as significant to honour his memory. Perhaps they are embedding our history. Perhaps they feel a need for our team to understand more of our club's history and its heroes. After all, there are only 2 coaching staff (Mahoney and Rawlings) and only 8 players who were at MFC in 2012. While to us Stynes means so much as a player and a tireless champion of our club, 90% of people now at MFC never knew him nor knew much about him. A very large part of our list were at high school 5 years ago. My initial reaction was similar to 'billy2803' and not sure why the club would make the anniversary a special event. But on reflection, he was a towering figure. No-one exemplifies the spirit of giving one's all than does Jim Stynes. So he is a terrific modern-day role model for players and others to remember and aspire to. Whatever, the reason the club has chosen to honour his memory I am sure it is a good, well thought out reason. Like others have said, I hope it is low key. I doubt it will affect the players as only 5 from 2012 will probably play that day. For them and the coaches it will be business as usual. Just win the game, Dees!

Bernie did the job on Danger and Selwood in 2015. They didn't get a chance to get the ball let alone go anywhere with it. He probably can't run with Stevens but he can certainly stop him in his tracks. Then there is our aptly named, serial pest - Bugg! And I believe Hibberd doesn't mind having a go... And if we get desperate, let them pay him some 'close attention' in their part of the ground and at centre bounces. We now have enough depth to cover a suspension. And Lewis can join in the party - he knows how to play 'unsociable' footy (but lets not get him suspended).

Upping the price like that and there being no General Admissions makes a mockery of what that game is supposed to be about. It was supposed to acknowledge (and at one time, honour) what ANZAC stands for and to give the everyday citizen that goes to the dawn service, has breakfast a chance to then go and watch a game of footy. It is now the preserve of the well heeled and well organised. Lost all its ANZAC meaning at the altar of greed (and drug cheating). I hope our ANZAC Eve game always embodies the ANZAC spirit where anyone can get in and it stays a game for the regular 'Joe'.

Thank you . The 'No pressure of course ' line indicated the parts about brownlow medals and flags were tongue in cheek... Nonetheless, I do think the midfield similarities are there. Will ours deliver, who knows. Agree, we have done nothing yet. As i noted in another thread, for me the lid is still on. Slightly ajar, yes but would like to wait and see if we have stopped 'drinking our own bathwater'. Hopefully, Lewis will keep their feet on the ground after the hype around the JLT wins. ps I haven't seen the article so wasn't commenting on what DK wrote.

Any other info, for those of us who don't read/subscribe to the HS. As coincidence would have it just before you started this thread I had posted this to the Gus Brayshaw thread: "Our midfield is scary good: Viney, Brayshaw, Oliver, Tyson, Salem, (potentially Petracca). Collectively, they remind me of the Lions midfield of the early 2000's: Black, Voss, Akermanis, Power". You could almost match them up Voss: Oliver/Viney - tough as Black: Brayshaw/Salem - silky Akermanis: Petracca - strong, knows where the goals are. Power: Tyson - quietly gets the job done. Notice there are more Dees players than Lions...as I said our midfield is scary good! We could easily have a few Brownlow medalists in our lot - if they don't take votes from each other that is. Just as long as they deliver us a flag or two or three! No pressure of course

In his first year he showed signs of being captain material. He had 'Leader' stamped all over him. If we didn't have Viney, Brayshaw would highly likely be captain at some stage. I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes VC to Viney when Jones hangs up his boots. Or if the club keep the co-cap model, that Brayshaw gets the gig (with a nod to Max Gawn as the other most likely). Our midfield is scary good: Viney, Brayshaw, Oliver, Tyson, Salem, (potentially Petracca). Collectively, they remind me of the Lions midfield of the early 2000's: Black, Voss, Akermanis, Power. Unlike 2015, Gus now has the players around him to bring out his best and to share the midfield load. He is a major part of our future success! Can't wait to see him fire again.

It maybe too late now but it would have been a good project for Matty Whelan in his new role: “Add this to our newly drafted Melbourne Football Club RAP, Next Generation Academy focus on Indigenous/Multicultural talent in the south-east of Victoria and Alice Springs, and our established relationship with the Northern Territory, and the role of Indigenous Project Officer was created". (From mfc press release). The game is a perfect opportunity to get in on the ground floor in those areas underlined. Opportunity missed.

Yes, so very familiar. ...and the doctor's records went missing doctor was the only one that knew what was in the bag but knows it was not the illegal stuff no records of purchasing the legal stuff but had bought more than what was needed of the illegal stuff that Wiggins had medical exemptions for in some cases. No explanation as to where the extra illegal stuff went. UKAD had met with 'a degree of resistance' in their investigation no audit trail the doctor works for the team and the governing body It is chapter and verse the EFC story! They learnt the art of obfuscation very well. Can only hope that UKAD has the fortitude of USAD (Lance Armstrong) and ASADA (Essendon) to relentlessly pursue Wiggins and Team Sky.

Another insightful article by Daisy. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/womens-afl/daisy-pearce-column-being-an-aflw-marquee-player-is-a-doubleedged-sword-20170301-guonjp.html She makes a really good point about the AFLW being at an embryonic stage whereas the media and scrutiny are up there equivalent to that applied to AFL players. To her credit she embraces it. But it must be awfully difficult for a player to be anonymous one day to being on a host of media outlets a month later. I speak not only of Daisy, Moana Hope and those with some experience but also the young players like our Mithen, Miffsud etc that have been thrown into the limelight. And they have not blinked! Awesome off field achievement by AFLW players from all teams.

It seems the EFC apologists cannot win anywhere: McDevitt cleared of lying allegations by the Senate Estimates Committee. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/senate-estimates-committee-clears-ben-mcdevitt-over-false-evidence-claim-20170301-guom9v.html Importantly, he states the requested Senate Inquiry won't change anything: "One plain fact I would make is the obvious point that a Senate inquiry cannot have the effect of setting aside the rulings of either the finding of lawfulness of ASADA's actions by the full bench of the Federal Court, nor of the findings of doping violations against Essendon players by the Court of Arbitration for Sport," he said. "A second plain fact I make is that so far as anti-doping matters can be litigated, either on merit or process, the Essendon matters have been finalised." It is good and important that those facts are on the record in the Senate, which is where the requested Senate Inquiry will be considered. McDevitt is a clever man.

A bit more info from Goodwin on our new 'brand': 'Fearless Football'. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-03-01/brand-a-major-focus-for-2017-goodwin He hasn't quite said we will make the 8 but its great to hear that our 'brand' of 'Fearless Football' will stand up in finals - he knows he has been there a few times. We have a good early fixture with a lot of very winnable games! Can't wait for the real games to start and get a read on how we are going.

Can't say that I noticed and I don't care.

If it helps, the club is posting regular updates via its twitter feed on the club website.

I, like others can only comment on the information that is presented in the media. Then use that to present a line of thinking to form an opinion. Everyone on Demonland, including yourself, does that and presents views and opinions when not armed with all relevant information or 'full facts'. No need to single me out for it. With Jack, something hasn't worked for 'a few months' and it is a real shame it hasn't been sorted earlier.

Not many facts on this subject, let alone 'full facts', PD. And the concrete conclusions were...? Questions (albeit rhetorical), opinion and hypotheses, yes. Concrete conclusions...?