Lucifers Hero

Good point. And the bulldogs trained all of 2015 preseason for that strategy while they recruited/developed ruckman. We have been forced into it on the run. The Geelong and Richmond games show that we don't know how to structure up/play when we are not winning/breaking even in the rucks. This is literally a new ball game for us. Regardless of who we bring in we have a lot of work do, to effectively set up at stoppages without a workable ruckman. From Goodwin's press conf reaction when asked, losing both ruckman is not something the coaches had even contemplated. I think we are between a rock and a hard place and just have to make the most of a bad situation.

I don't know how to quote a post from one thread to another so here are extracts of 'hoopla's post (#100) from above thread: "Both Grand Finalists needed 4 ruckmen to get through their campaigns. Roughead / Campbell/ Minson/ Boyd v. Tippett/ Sinclair/ Naismith / Nankervis". "Injuries to ruckmen late in the season seriously affected the campaigns of several clubs - Natanui/ Lycett , Ceglar, Lobbe ( on top of Ryder), Hampson and Jacobs( with Jenkins sore). Add Sandilands/ Griffen ..... the list goes on." and spectacularly prophetic by 'hoopla' "On that display {VFL GF} we could find ourselves limping towards the finals with a ruck combination of Pederson and Watts if anything happens to Max. Recent history says that to win a premiership you've got to have 3 If not 4 genuine ruckmen on your list .We can't risk going into 2017 with Frank the only one big enough and experienced enough to cover Maxie." I understood it was 'standard practice' to have at least 3 AFL capable ruckman (see my post #23 above). Even with Spencer we were leaving ourselves short until the young guys develop - about 3/4 years.

I don't know why people are persisting with this 'its all good in hindsight' commentary. Here is an excellent thread Quote: "But, at the same time, the club's back up ruckman Jake Spencer has had some injury problems, recruit ruckman Mitch King's season lasted about five minutes before tearing his ACL in VFL round 1 and rookie Max King, now in his third year, is languishing in the Scorpions' Development League. Luckily, the Demons haven't been placed in the position of delving into its reserve ruck depth...So despite having arguably the #1 ruckman in the competition, the paradox is that it's quite possible that the club's focus in the trade and draft period will be on locating a ruckman to add to its stocks in 2017 and beyond". Embedded in the intro is a list of 'Mature Age Talent' of ruckmen and a variety of options were discussed by posters. I'm not going to revisit the details of that thread and the options, suffice to say the majority of posters saw the need for another 'ready to go' ruckman somewhere on our list. So please don't say wanting another ruckman is just hindsight. It is an attempt to re-write DL history. As I said in an earlier post - while injuries are not foreseeable blind freddy could see our ruck problem. And we were remiss not to address it when we had the chance.

Has anyone noticed if Viney and Jones talk to each other during games. Especially in time on, when the op get some momentum going or when we repeatedly lose our structures. I haven't noticed them do so and wonder if they are running their own race. Even if Jones and Viney were physically injured last night they could still have talked to each other, marshalled the troops, enforced structures etc. Those things aren't that hard to initiate are they? Those things may not always work but to take no action... ...Baffling

Yes the AFL do have form as recent as this year: The Dees and WB built up women's footy but the AFL handed the inaugural game to Pies vs Coll and it will be the opening fixture for ever more. They will create the history and our contribution (with WB) will get lost. They did it to North with the Friday night games. But they allow a team with an illegal drug culture to play on this hallowed day. So if the AFL bow to political maneuverings and replace MFC on ANZAC Eve with Rich that is it for me. No more AFL and I would become a casual observer of the Dees from afar. There is only so much being pushed around and AFL hypocrisy one can take.

Interesting question. My thoughts on other teams are that the status quo holds ie Thursday and Friday night games are stand alone so no competition for time slot. There aren't any Sunday night games so again no competition. The AFL would be crazy to bring another game into those time slots given the 'at game' and tv audience success last night. (Last night the audience was 630,00 nationally even tho it was on 7mate without much pre game promotion. That is up there with the recent Friday night game Syd vs Pies). On the Saturday night it would be a joint fixture (hopefully with the other game interstate) as currently happens. (Same thing for Ess vs Pies afternoon game ANZAC day falls on a Sat/Sun). If you are alluding to the AFL taking the ANZAC Eve game from Melb vs Rich - all hell would break lose. Hopefully, even the AFL aren't that silly especially when staring at a 'golden goose'. For mine ANZAC Eve is by far the most attractive - made special by the pregame ANZAC tribute. QB has a slight $ benefit as it is always our Home game whereas ANZAC Eve alternates. Even so, I would still take the night game vs Rich. Both clubs are making it a tradition and like you say Coll supporters are apathetic to QB.

Clutching at straws there a bit DD: Max King is no longer on our list. Boyd: 2.01m, 102kgs. Watts: 196cm, 96kgs. They are not like for like. We don't have a Boyd type. And take Boyd out of forward line and bulldogs still have other experienced tall forwards. Take Watts out and it is just Hogan/Weideman at best. Mitch King and FIlipovic are 3 to 4 years away from regular AFL games let alone being the #1 ruck on game day. Keitly as a part-time ruckman - a pinch-hitter at best. My point was our ruckstocks are thread bear for the next 3/4 years and blind freddy could see it.

...and we lost Spencer. Yet Richmond came out of it unscathed! Odd. Are we playing too many players with 'niggles' or is it our frantic, somewhat kamikaze style of play that is putting our players at risk. I suspect out 'stacks on the mill' approach doesn't help. Something esle? Whatever it is the our injury toll from games is higher than the opposition most weeks. Hope we sort it out fast.

Have to agree with rjay. It is not hindsight by posters. It was discussed at length during the trade/draft period on DL. There are several parts to our list management dilemma re ruckmen: 1) It is known that the more successful clubs have at least 3 ruckman eg Hawks, Syd, WCE. ready to play at AFL level and usually 1 developing ruckman. 2) It is known that those that don't have 3 do have (and each week select) a starting 22 player who is a backup ruckman. Think Boyd, Lobb. Jenkins. Blicvat. We don't have either so we are not protected during a game nor if our 2 main ruckman are out medium term with injuries. 3) We know that Spencer is an FA on a one year contract, expiring this year. So no guarantee of his tenure. So next year we may be down to 1 ruckman if Spencer exercises his FA rights. Probable, I don't know but certainly possible. 4) We know that King (21yo) and Filipovic (18yo) are babies in ruckman terms and some way from any AFL football let alone holding down a regular AFL ruck role - probably, 3 to 4 years away. Clearly the strategy was to make Watts the game day backup ruckman. Already we can see the folly of that. Firstly, he is not built for the role like Boyd, Lobb etc. Secondly, Jack rucking leaves a gaping whole in our forward line as we are left with one tall forward (ala Geelong, Richmond) and it has cost us two games. Yes injuries cannot be foreseen but blind freddy could see our ruck stocks for the next 3/4 years were/are thread bare. So no, it is not hindsight. And yes, it is a huge problem. Our list management re ruckman was a roll of the dice, we lost. But it needn't have been this way. It was very foreseeable. I have heard it said that while list management decisions are a team effort, trading of players is largely the coaches call to fill a short/medium term need. The drafting of players (especially at the pointy end) is primarily the domain of recruiting to build a balanced long-term list. Somewhere along the line in 2016 we misjudged our ruck stocks for the short/medium term.

Walters from Ballarat gets 1 week from VFL MRP. The hit isn't as sinister as indicated in the Casey thread. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-24/walters-hit-with-onematch-vfl-ban-for-brayshaw-hit "Walters laid a late bump on Brayshaw in Saturday's VFL clash against Melbourne affiliate Sandringham, with a clash of heads resulting in the young midfielder's concussion". But it does seem to have been late so a penalty is appropriate in my book. I guess concussion from a head clash does seem to be in the 'bad luck' category along with being hit by the ball as unlucky. We have a great record of supporting and caring for our players with significant injuries: Salem, Hogan, Petracca, Hunt, JKH. I'm confident Gus will get back to the great form we saw in his first year and the coaches will work with him on any issues he might have in the way he plays.

His father Mark Brayshaw is on SEN and said (not verbatim): Angus is fine after the latest knock. Mark and his wife had a long chat with the doctor yesterday and expect Gus to be available to play this week. Mum more worried than Dad. Club doctors are very good and conservative and are keen to keep parents in the loop. Angus's doctor said his issue is at the lower end. Angus has been a bit unlucky with head knocks rather than how he plays Doctor's explained wearing a helmet only increases the circumference of the 'target' so helmets don't really help Gus has no structural damage His mum doesn't want him to stop playing but does worry (more than dad) Grateful for the chance to talk as it clears things up for lots of family and friends. Its great that Gus's dad has come out and cleared the air. If nothing else it stops journos creating dramatic headlines. A father is a lot more convincing than a club. Delighted that Gus is ok and can get on with his football.

As I noted above, best to wait till we learn more details. And thankfully a reporter has talked to the club rather make assumptions. "Angus received a minor concussion following a late hit during the game last night," Mahoney said on Sunday..."He reported signs of improvement this morning. We will monitor him through the week but expect him to be available this week." http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/angus-brayshaw-not-expected-to-miss-any-games-despite-third-concussion-20170423-gvqkgt.html The club will give him all the time and care he needs to get back to his courageous self. Footnote: hope their is video of that late hit and the offending player gets a few weeks holiday.

I just hope the team isn't underdone re AFL match practice (excl JLT and VFL games). We will have 2 players who haven't played AFL since 2015 and with few games of any sort since recent injuries (JKH and Hibberd), 1 who has played 4 games since 2015 (Melksham) who seemed to hit the wall a bit last week and 1 who has played 1 AFL game (Smith) and seemed to tire. The risk is they won't be quite sharp in their play and touch and the pace of AFL may cause fatigue in the last quarter. Having 1 or two underdone at AFL level is one thing but 4? I feel we are setting ourselves up for 1 or more of them to fade at some stage in the game but we can't afford that. Everyone needs to be switched on and firing for the full 120 minutes. Richmond is winning by lurking and exploiting turnovers. If our guys aren't sharp that is what will happen. Would have preferred we eased underdone players in over several weeks.

Its official http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-04-23/casey-notches-up-first-win Unfortunately, Angus Brayshaw left the field in the hands of trainers late in the second term and failed to reappear after half-time...“He copped a head knock,” senior coach Justin Plapp told melbournefc.com.au...“It’s unfortunate for him because he has had a few hits over the last few years … but hopefully he’s OK.” We have shown a lot of care and support with our talented youngsters: Hunt, Salem, Hogan, Petracca, JKH. They have all had long stints out in the first few years of their career. And I am sure we will with Brayshaw and give him as much time and care that he needs. Hopefully he can take encouragement from Salem who went thru a similar series of repeat head knocks. Lets wait till we hear more details before we assume a worse case scenario.

I get the indignation but lets get real. Next week is the run home to the MKR Grand Final. That show has had the Sunday to Wednesday time slot on Ch 7 for months. Ch 7 are not going to give up up to a mill MKR viewers on ANZAC Eve. Viewers for which their sponsors signed up for eons ago. In reality AFL is the interloper here. We need to get used to it. For as long as Ch 7 have MKR, ANZAC Eve will be in their Grand Final week. In a way, its a real shame because it makes our game less of a 'marquis' game from a TV point of view. On the bright side MKR won't last forever. Personally, I'm just happy to watch the game at the G or 7mate.

I recall that Bernie became engaged just before Christmas. A search of his instagram shows it is to Abbie Noonan whose instagram shows her location as Henley Beach which is in SA. Like you Ron he is one of my favourite players. He has been sensational for us. As he will be 32 this year and on a one year contract maybe he wants to retire and move back to SA. If that is what he decides I would be very happy for him. We are maturing as a team and his experience is not so critical for us anymore. And an entertaining video from of 2015 of the happy couple...bit of a laugh at Bernie's expense http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-08-11/style-in-2-bernie-vince-and-abbie-noonan

Its scary that it refers to 75% of children thinking gambling is a normal part of sport. I guess it is no wonder when the AFL's education paper (for non-sports betting) to community football clubs says: " Don't think of gambling as a way to make money,"...Think of gambling as an entertainment expense," it continues, "just like buying a movie ticket." http://www.theage.com.au/afl/the-afl-and-gambling-ads-a-question-of-value-20170421-gvprwx.html Its laughable to think that 'education paper' would discourage gambling in sport! I can't even think of any gambling that isn't on sport. That article also spells out the AFL's hypocrisy on gambling. Effectively, the AFL (along with NRL and Cricket) have heavily lobbied the federal government to water down their proposed restrictions to ban gambling advertising during live sport coverage. And to a large extent they have succeeded. Double standards are alive and well!

How i wish there was a 'dislike' button. Poor form to call a loyal servant of our club that. You have no idea how important he is to our team right now.

Didn't want to start a new thread... ...here is a light hearted article about Jack and his life away from football. https://www.domain.com.au/news/at-home-with-melbourne-demons-player-jack-watts-20170421-gvoq28/ It has some interesting insights into what makes him tick. Like Dwayne Swan he is taking up piano playing. A laid back and very likeable character.

We have set a NEW RECORD (I think). Club website is saying 36,269. Suspect a typo and they mean 39,269!! That is 3+ months before the 39,211 record set last year at end of July. So its a 7% increase on this time last year and 17% increase on same time 2015. @Dee Deewould you like to show the new milestone in the thread title, perhaps?

Mitch Clarke has them all covered! With good reason.

Well the CAS hearing found that Ess players lied to drug tester forms and kept info from their doctor. Is anyone really surprised he would withhold info/lie to the AFL. Some people never learn. De Goey got 3 weeks for lying to the his coach...I wonder what sanctions Melksham will get from the club. Probably nothing. But I know which is more serious.

My reading is is that the AFL is willing to consider a 'fixed % of revenue'. Paul Marsh made his name by negotiating using that same model for Cricket players. This is a model that Cricket Australia is on the verge of abandoning because their view is 'it is dated'. It seems the main stumbling block with the AFL is the scope of the AFLPA claim for what is 'revenue'. The AFLPA are demanding a % of Total AFL and Club revenue. ie At the Club level this includes things like pokie revenue, fundraising, merchandising, sponsorship, gate takings etc etc. Not sure what AFL revenue would be included. Not sure where the AFLPA thinks the Clubs are going to find the money. It will hurt a lot of clubs like ours who have small membership bases and limited opportunities for high value sponsorships etc. But that aside my concern is that a greater $ pool just means the top few elite players will command bigger contracts ala Free Agents and KPP in high demand. The next tier may improve their overall contracts somewhat but the other 75% of players won't see much difference.

Those comments don't change the fact that as a group they are struggling to get on the park or perform to the AFL standard, according to their coach. Similar to that are the other returning Ess players: Crameri, Carlisle, Monfires, Ryder, Melksham and Hibberd - they are also struggling with either injury or form (except maybe Ryder). (Yet to see how Hibberd goes at AFL level. Hope for our sake he is the exception. Also hope that Melksham starts to have an impact soon because so far he has just fiddle around with the ball). Yes, all clubs have under performing players, but as a group of 16 there is little evidence that their bodies are standing up to the rigor of AFL football either not getting on or not performing on the park. And yes, there could be any number of reasons. It is good that you give them the benefit of the doubt - it is something I struggle with for all those involved with that sorry mess.

I know that. But a general vote to employees is very very rare. And yes, Barlett's legal practice specialises in IR. That is why I posted the article.