Lucifers Hero

Agreed. Thru' my biased lens the commentators always seem to down play hits on us, like the hip and shoulder comment yesterday, or imply staging. However, they stick the boots into us when our player has 'offended' eg May in the JLT.

Just saw a replay of the Viney concussion incident. It is in this article Hit on Viney (but I don't know how to just post the video. Any tips welcome). Careless+High contact+Severe impact+bad optics = at least a week's holiday. No attempt to shepherd. To my biased eye Barass lined him up! Viney had to sit out nearly 3 quarters when he was on fire so hope the club don't play 'nice guy' and squip the medical.

Yesterday may not have been so good for him if Hurn had played. Best to go out on a high. Has served us well. We need a smart footy brain off-field as much as we do on-field so would be a good addition to the coaches box.

We faded in the last due to fatigue but it wasn't all lack of fitness. A lot to do with interchanges. We had 9 players who played more than 88% game time; WCE had 3 so they had fresh legs. We had the same no of i/changes. The difference was Viney being out, managing Jetta's and Preuss's game time. Fritsch played 96% so makes his game even better. Had a poor tired kick in the last qtr but really held up well.

Slow start when we kicked badly and flat finish in the last where they kicked 4.3 to our 1.2 but on the whole we played well. Good to see the switch across half back and the tempo changes. We lost but a lot to like for the last few games of the season. Huge game by Clarrie and Fritsch not far behind.

Yep, playing Lewis and Fritsch fwd has meant Petracca can play midfield.

No hip. Raised shoulder straight into the side of his jaw while standing. Should get weeks.

Good to see Gus start in the middle. Needs to find some form there today.

Its our Home game, so why is an Eagles fan tossing the coin?

Apologies if it came across as it being personal with Mahoney and Viney. Not intended and have tried to use publicly available information. Just think a decade is long enough of presiding over a relatively unsuccessful team. Moving out players is a bit different to changing football admin staff. And, Goodwin moved out Watts and Hogan and we survived the aftermath. But definitely agree change needs to be handled very carefully which is why I think any changes in the broader football department will take several years for Pert to implement.

Don't disagree with any of that. Answer to the Quiz re Common Factors from Bailey to Goodwin eras: 1. Mahoney (with mfc in 2008). 2. Viney (with mfc in 2010). Their roles have changed but both have been and are in critical positions to decide list management and coaching selections. Their methods and attitudes are entrenched and in many respects moulded our culture of the last decade. They have built a team in their image on and off the field: our team is see ball and get ball types without much finesse, speed or skill. That has become exaggerated since Roos left as Goodwin's game plan requires more of the see ball get ball type. The coaching panel is full of people they (or Goodwin) were friends with. A decade is long enough. I have long stated it is time to shake up our football department not just the coaching panel. My experience is people (in any type of organisation) cannot or will not revamp what they have created. eg There is little doubt in my mind the mid-season coaching changes would not have happened if Pert and Bartlett didn't make it their business to go in and find out what was wrong. So, I am firmly of the view that our club will not really move forward until one or both are no longer at mfc. That is why my last hope is Pert. Agree Pert can't wave a magic wand and it will take him several years to revamp the football department. But I feel he is our only chance to avoid another decade without regularly going deep into September.

Agree: 'should fix' - I am clinging to some hope that Pert will shake the place up. No one else will. Re the preseason 'excuse'. I have been saying for a while the club should just shut up about the preseason stuff but Bartlett, Mahoney and Goodwin are still talking about it either directly or indirectly. While the preseason was an issue, I see their constant reference to it as diversionary tactics to stop the media from digging deeper and keep the blowtorch at bay. eg When the media tried probing the success of mid-year coaching changes, at Goodwin's most recent press conf he said something like 'that is internal business and we are a happy camp'. One can draw their own conclusions. I could go on about players ruling the roost but it will probably meltdown this thread, so shall refrain. A quiz: what is the common factor during the Bailey, Neeld, Roos and Goodwin reigns. Anyone can answer.

Its a long article but paraphrasing: His family history, providing for his family in Darwin and the Gold Coast, and the challenges of moving to Melbourne (the city moreso than the club). The season was a 'perfect storm' of lows: broken relationships, poor fitness, media scrutiny, injury, Jessie playing well and Dee fans 'blaming' May for not even being on the park. He was surprised that at start of preseason he was thought to be unfit by the club. Goodwin read him the riot act after the 'drinking incident 'and May started looking for other ways to help while in rehab. May: "...I started mentoring (teammate) Harry Petty, doing extra sessions, going to games with Goody, scouting a team with (assistant coach) Troy Chaplin, trying to find ways I could help without playing." A notable quote: "May is grateful that Goodwin not only challenged him but joined him. He didn't send him to the naughty corner to train alone. Goodwin was beside him at the gym for extra weights and bike sessions. He went to games of footy with him. If May wanted to do more, the coach would do it with him". I thought it shows Goodwin's compassion and preparedness to get into the trenches with the players. All credit to May and Goodwin. How he won over the coaches, players and fans. May: “This year has been a roller coaster, no doubt. A lot more lows than highs for me but the highs are bloody worth it already. Just to pay in a couple of wins in the five games I have played, that feeling getting the Gatorade shower walking out through MCC and Melbourne fans – it feels great....“Hopefully I can get myself in the good books.’’ A roller coaster but I think he is already in our good books and has won people's respect. Look forward to him anchoring our backline for a many seasons to come.

On a side note, I found it odd that he was told only the day before pre-season training what preseason would be like. That he had to get his skin folds from 60 to 50. He seemed surprised. So was he not given a fitness test after the trade and not given a fitness regime to follow? I thought it was standard practice for all players to get an off-season fitness regime. Maybe not or maybe fitness staff assumed players would self manage their dietary, fitness and rehab behaviours. Risky! These might explain why there were claims players came back out of condition.

A real credit to May for making some really difficult adjustments in his life and in coming to Melbourne. And to Goodwin for walking the tough road with him.

Binman, I have never down played the role of preseason surgeries and injuries. I am simply trying to keep claims about particular players ie Tom, factual. Some people here go on about the preseason and neglect to mention other problems or if they do it is lip service. Its never as simple as one issue. So, I'm simply trying to remind people that we have other and perhaps deeper issues. Otherwise why would the club beef up development resources and change the forward coaches mid year?

Agree Bbo, for most of the year he couldn't jump, run or kick and we could all see that something was amiss. My earlier posts were to try and dispel some of the myths around Tom and our preseason woes. So I put his poor form down to some non-injury issues and poor player management as much as injury. Who knows why we kept playing him. Desperation? I don't see his latest knee injury as bad luck. And now he is out for the season.

Thank you. It says Tom but I'm pretty sure they mean Oscar who had hip surgery but is not mentioned in that article. Tom does not appear on the more reliable club or AFL list of surgeries or injury reports whereas Oscar appeared regularly.

I didn't say he was not carrying an injury. I said he did not have preseason surgery, he did not have an interrupted preseason and the preseason is not the cause of his poor form. So I would like people to stop claiming so. I saw poor form for 15 weeks. An injury? Maybe, maybe not. There could be any number of reasons: poor coaching, poor fitness, taking the #1 defender, poor delivery, poor injury management etc If he did have an injury, surely he should not be played continuously for 2 JLT and 15 weeks without resting! If that is the case it is very poor player management and it invites the inevitable - a more significant injury which is what happened: given he had patella soreness before the AFLX and played 17 games without resting is it any surprise he tore his mensicus? People need to look a bit more deeply before putting all our woes down to the 'preseason'.

I don't know how many times I need to write this but Tom McDonald did not have preseason surgery and is not on injury reports. If he had an 'interrupted preseason' I would like someone to present the info. If people are thinking his double ankle surgery, it was the previous year ie prior to his sensational 2018 season. Yes, he was withdrawn from this year's AFLX apparently with patella soreness and there are mixed reports whether he simply had a cortisone injection or a minor procedure to clean it up. Either way he played in both JLT games a week or so later, kicking 2 and 1 goal respecively. So he had a full preseason. His poor form is not related to the preseason issues. And his poor form is one of the major reasons we are where we are. On a more general note, we know about our preseason and depth woes but surely no one still thinks that is the reason we have fallen from 4th to 17th. If it was the club would not have beefed up the development resources nor made the line coaching changes. Preseason surgery has become the escape clause and people say things like "Put it all together and you get what we have now". We have been crap for a variety of reasons and to not acknowledge those other reasons is simply head in sand stuff. Thankfully, the club recognises those other reasons and will fix them.

It isn't just Goodwin talking about 'the preseason'. Listen to the Mahoney and Bartlett interviews of recent weeks. Goodwin's references to 'the preseason' are now less direct eg in this weeks press conf he said something like: the reason (for why we are where we are) is well documented and we are addressing those reasons. That sounds like 'the preseason'/injuries reason. Not too long ago Viney said something about preseason problems 'but they aren't an excuse'. i think these comments are valid but I use them to illustrate the club, as a whole, is still talking 'the preseason'/injuries. I do not think we are exaggerating the preseason/injury problem but it may sound like we are if our senior people keep talking about it. Other clubs in as bad a predicament as us: Richmond (key injuries to top 10 players) and St Kilda (key injuries to top 10 players in the preseason who have barely played this year) haven't been playing 'the preseason' or 'the injury' card. I just think the club as a whole needs to stop talking or referring to 'the preseason' or injuries. Move on. Not all journo's are dumb. They know that 'the preseason/injuries' are only part of the problem. So far they haven't used the blowtorch to dig deeper. It may yet come.

Surprises never cease- both Wagners are in. Bench: Wagner 1, Wagner 2, ANB, Lockhart. That is a terrible, terrible bench. Can't believe Smith isn't in nor is Baker. Bit tough on Dunkley to drop him after just one two games. So much for preparing for 2020 if Baker isn't in. Edit: thanks to @DemonWorshipperfor correction on Dunkley games.

"{Freo}...face the prospect of losing uncontracted midfielder Ed Langdon to a Victorian club – the Demons are leading the race" challenging-times-at-freo

Without counting the games others have had it pretty bad (for long term injury absences ie > 3 weeks): Richmond: Cotchin, Rance, Reiwoldt, Nankervis (ie their spine) missing for most of the season. Houli, Astbury, Vlaustin (most of their backline) out for a fair chunk early in the season. St Kilda: Geary, McCartin, Hannebury, Stevens, Longer, Roberton, Carlisle mostly didn't have a preseason or out most of the year and all but Carlisle are still out. The above players would be in their respective best 10. So not much different to our best 10 absentees of > 3 weeks: May, Lever, Melksham, Jetta, Hannan, Lewis. Collingwood have also had a few significant outs. The difference between those teams and us is they are not bleating about it. I don't agree with Caro that we are exaggerating them but it suits our narrative to use 'preseason/injuries' to answer any questions about poor form. Like us fans, the media know a lot of other things aren't working and so have stopped buying this narrative that the club is trying to sell.

Possibly not enough: “This has probably been a little bit longer than we’d planned as well, but with your feet, we know through Jack Viney and Aaron vandenBerg and a few others … you don’t want to muck around with them too much,” Melksham said. I guess 'a few others' include Trengove and Clarke.