Lucifers Hero

No, I didn't say that at all. I said there have been many culprits and listed them.

I just can't walk past that comment. No it isn't ATAGI, altho they have had a part. The fear and demonising has many culprits: AZ was first demonised in Europe in January 2021 and beyond: "In January 2021, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) approved the use of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine for all age groups, but a number of EU countries initially refused to recommend its use for people over 65. France and Germany eventually revised their stance and approved the vaccine for 65-74 year olds at the beginning of March. They were again among 13 European countries who paused the AstraZeneca rollout again later in March, following reports that a small number of people developed blood clots after receiving the jab. On 7 April, the EMA said there was a "possible link" between the vaccine and the clots, although it is still recommended the jab for all age groups. Several EU countries, including France, Germany and the Netherlands now say only people over 55 or 60 should get the jab, while others like Denmark have suspended its use altogether. The headlines surrounding AstraZeneca led to a drop in confidence in the jab. In March, the polling company YouGov suggested that only a third of Germans and 23% of French respondents considered it safe". https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52380823 The AZ 'risks' and lack of confidence in Europe was picked up by the Australian media and many so called 'expert' medically related people here, so AZ was demonised here long before the vaccine even arrived in Australia. All Australian governments and ATAGI were in sync until June, even tho ATAGi had back tracked on its age group advice several times. It was only when the danger Delta posed to under 50's and the risk profile changed, did state/federal/ATAGI positions diverge. ATAGI stuck to its guns. The federal government did exactly what you said they should do and sought alternative advice. Based on that they gave a different recommendation than ATAGI to younger age groups: get AZ as their was 6-9 months of UK evidence of AZ risks vs covid risk on younger age groups available. That was a decision by The National Cabinet (not only the PM, not only his Ministers) to giving alternative to ATAGI advice. National Cabinet is made up PM and Premiers etal. Of course that didn't stop the Qld CHO breaking ranks and reverting to the ATAGI position which only confused everyone further. To summarise some culprits for fear and demonising AZ: EMA (EU's equivalent to ATAGI) Germany, France, Netherlands etc Media in Europe and Australia Many medicos who cared to talk to the media ATAGI National Cabinet State CHO's

I was using them in the context of this part of your link: "Since 1990 the term "Third World" has been redefined in many evolving dictionaries in several languages to refer to countries considered to be underdeveloped economically and/or socially". Ditto 2nd world countries.

Not sure where they are staying. Ironically, I think they are training at Punt Rd but not entirely sure. Yeah, Hardwick losing his grip now they are losing, like he did last year when they were losing.

Anyone else notice that lockdown 5.0 didn't even end...

From The Age: "The Giants will request their season-defining home game against Richmond in round 22 be played at either Marvel Stadium or GMHBA Stadium rather than at the MCG". Hardwick has complained about going to both stadiums. Karma! Giants win this and they shut Richmond out of the finals. Hope it is GMHBA. Go Giants!!

Many thanks for the info. Very encouraging. It will be quite reassuring to know that if someone catches covid there is an effective treatment. A shame it can't happen faster especially for the 2nd and 3rd world countries.

Unfortunately, all governments and health authorities run the narrative around 'zero cases', % vaccination targets etc as if all will be dandy. No one seems to want to face up to the reality that we will have to live with it and their will be outbreaks. At some point all governments and health authorities need to wind back the fear that has been attached to an outbreak. Unfortunately, atm there seems to be little attention to shifting the public mindset (as you say educate) back to a new normal.

The initial lot were in March 21 when we couldn't get a supply for ourselves: australia-to-send-covid-vaccines-to-virus-hit-papua-new-guinea Yes, then and now it is AZ; pfizer isn't practical because it needs to be stored at -70c (AZ at -2 to -8c) and lack of electricity for its is an issue in those countries so it is more feasible but still challenging to distribute AZ. I think CSL is producing 'excess' so that it can go to our neighbours. I would be happy to give as much as we can. They need it.

Didn't they just win Olympic Bronze 🙂

Totally agree and encourage everyone to get vaccinated. I'm not so confident of us ever beating this. Even if we get to 90% at some point we need to open borders. Even with the best quarantine centres we know the virus gets out before and after quarantine. And our nearest neighbours: Indonesia, PNG and Fiji are in a world of hurt with covid. We need to help them and fortunately we are helping a little bit, altho some folks may not like us diverting our vaccines to them. It is essential we support them as a good neighbour and support ours and the regions long-term interests. Sadly, my view it can't be beaten until the whole region is safe from it so we will need to learn to live with it.

Scott didn't look to worried about the GWS loss and fair enough as they had more scoring shots but 8.17. However, their % took a hit and he has been watching it carefully. He may not have slept so well last night seeing what the Saints did to Sydney. Geelong play Saints next week. They can fall out of the top 4 if they lose the last two and Lions have three very good wins to bridge the % gap. Suddenly Geelong need to keep winning to get the double chance. Would much rather Lions in the top 4 than Cats. Barrack for Lions today to keep the heat on Scott and his team of snipers.

Lets bank a win vs Eagles tomorrow and secure top 4 for who knows what might happen: Adelaide beat us early this year with a smart game plan and they will regroup this week and be ready for us again. Then Geelong at Geelong; anything can happen there. Very, very keen to win tomorrow.

A friend and her family were in iso during lockdown 4 as their daughter was in the same class as the child who tested positive at the Nth Melb school. They said it was a bit easier knowing that the rest of us were in lockdown and not out having a good time. But they missed exercise as they live in a small apartment. Hope your iso also goes well. Agree, it doesn't help trying to find fault or blame. Its a time for all of us to hang in there together. Best wishes to you and your child.

Glad you could vent here. We may not always agree but will always support.

One more win and we have top 4 locked up.

We win one more game and we have locked in a top 4 spot

Click on the + to the left of the 'Quote' button for each post you would like to quote. A tally will appear on the bottom right corner of the screen. When done click on the tally and all appear in the comment section of the thread, in the order in which they were selected.

On Quarantine: The best quarantine program in the world would not have prevented the current wave (the subject of my post) because the causes were pre quarantine ie an unvaccinated person (driver) working in the highest risk area (ferrying air crew) and and post quarantine ie human error releasing people from quarantine while positive. Howard Springs facilities in all states would not prevent those pre and post covid escapes. It is people who made mistakes outside the quarantine facilities. On Delta: Everyone knows and knew that covid would mutate. That is what viruses do. Some covid mutations have been: Brazil, African, Uk, Kappa, Beta, Alpha and Delta strains which all emerged in 2020. If our or any government had punted that eg kappa would be the problem and that didn't happen there would be outrage about how they got it wrong and should have punted on a, b, or c. And, how many governments predicted that Delta would become the nightmare it has; targetting young people behaving very differently to other strains? It wasn't until Delta spread to the UK in April and the tragedy in May in India that there was advice that a tsunami was coming. April/May wasn't very long ago. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. No country has had a crystal ball on the impact of Delta.

Snap!!

I used a chart on this page: https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/australias-covid-19-vaccine-rollout Lots more info on that website: https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/australias-covid-19-vaccine-rollout

My difficulty with political type posts is that they usually present just one side of the story. There are a variety of reasons why we are where we are: Low vaccination rates: lack of supply due to fed government stuff ups, EU withholding supply etc, lack of and miscommunication due to Europe's bad PR on AZ, ATAGI vacillating on advice, state CHO's not supporting ATAGI recommendations, language barriers etc lack of demand due to complacency, anxiety, cultural influences, antivaxers Irresponsible people. The current east coast wave started when an unvaccinated 60+ man worked in the most high risk job possible: transporting air crew from airport to accommodation. Not blaming him - it is his right not to get vaccinated. But he should not have been in that job. Like any work Health and Safety policies all stakeholders need to be protected. Its like if people don't wear a safety harness they don't work on skyscrapers. The man should have been given another role in a low risk area. Human error: People being released from quarantine while positive. Delta mutation: Its arrival and age group targets surprised everyone. It made early vaccination plans to do older folks first somewhat redundant. Younger folk needs have increased demand. I could go on but I hope people see the bigger picture.

Thanks. Quite right. Edited

As of yesterday: Fact 1: Approx 21% of >16yo have had both shots. Fact 2: Approx 43% of >16yo have had first shot.

Can we keep gratuitous abuse of people out of this thread please. We have had a whole week without it and the discussion in this thread has been objective, constructive and informative.