The heart beats true

RR I'm not sure your point is being made well with comparing hawthorn games in 2010 vs 2012. If they kicked straight Friday night the result would have been very similar. Hardly proves how valuable our defensive game plan is does it?

If this isn't proof that the players are being over corrected then nothing is. Yes, it was attacking footy, but the current game style of kicking down the line to the boundary isn't just proving unsuccessful - it makes for a really dull spectacle. And you can say what you want about belting an interstate team on the G, but you might wanna watch the replay of round 1 2012 and tell me how it looks?

I reckon this will be very interesting to watch. There is a far greater spend on it now, but I wonder how that will translate through to success. I think the clubs and the AFL are talking it up as that's where they are spending. Not sure based on our picks since 2005 if we are proving that the ever expanding spend is worthwhile. I think I need to watch Moneyball tonight.

Am an AFL member and was pretty shocked at what I saw on Friday night too. There are idiots in every crowd, from both teams but on Friday night I was genuinely confused by the lack of understanding of the game by a lot of hawks fans. I love Buddy, Cyril, Sewelly and Mitchell for the Hawks. I know how Hawthorn play and their uncontested high possession footy. Their fans turned up and had no idea about us, or the game. One bloke behind me referred to Chippa as 'some [censored] nobodies heard of'. Frawley is All Australian. He also made comments about our players beings 'Fags'. It's so disappointing. I turned to him at 1/2 time and told him that his players are unlucky to have such a moron for a supporter. He wasn't alone either. For the first time in years I went and sat somewhere else.

This is an assumption though. We are all buying into the rhetoric that this group of coaches can turn them into 'AFL Standard' players. I agree it's way too early to evaluate. You have to give them a season and 2 preseasons before you can expect to see anything much but Neeldy has certainly backed off from the 'hardest team to play against' tag. If you can only evaluate players on performance then the same is true of coaches. No blind faith for anyone. Not throwing away the coach, but not giving a standing ovation for christ sake. We are 0-7 and everyone should share the responsibility.

I think this is my genuine concern. I'm worried that Neeld's timing is wrong for us. It's only early but his long term game plan looks outdated. Couple this with his so called 'hard nosed my way or the highway' mentality at the worst time to have that belief. Only last night on Fox Footy were they talking about how difficult it's going to be for clubs to rebuild over the next few years with the 2 new teams. One of the guys talking about that was Lynch - a player manager. If our senior players all look to step out we are talking about another 5 year rebuild after this year. We can't run on emotion forever in terms of membership base and the all important sponsors. This is why Neeld's playing a dangerous game with us. I hope he is right, because if he's isn't I'm very worried.

Or, he's asking everyone to play a brand of footy that has so far proven to be very unsuccessful and some of the players don't believe in it. He has no track record to fall back on. Fortunately it's too early to be judging whether either of us is right but id suggest that we are not going to win a flag with a team of Clint Bartams (and I love Barty). It takes all sorts, and a couple of blokes who do things differently make you dangerous. We look one dimensional and indecisive with the ball. That is a lot to do with poor coaching, and very little to do with hard truths. He'll get better. I have faith in him. I think he's learnt a lot in the first 7 games about his strengths and weaknesses. I suggest his stubbornness will be a benefit if we can get some confidence, but that's still an 'if'.

I agree but the risks have to be calculated. My fear is that if you walk into any workplace and say 'you guys are [censored] and you're doing it all wrong' you run the risk of losing confidence from your group really quickly when you don't get results. That appears to be what's happening in our case at times. In the balance of high risk high reward I think the risk is too big and we havent seen a single reward from it. I'm not suggesting Neeldy should be fired. That's absurd. I just have concerns about the balance of management versus teaching that is happening. The players look concerned to make mistakes all the time. Management is about balance too, not just my way or the high way.

There's no doubt about that. I'd hardly suggest his ability to tolerate defeats is testament to his strengths though. If you listened to Ross Lyon speak earlier in the year you would have heard him speak about the importance of an early win to building confidence from within an organisarion. There's nothing wrong with laying out a broad plan but I fear that he's thrown the baby out with the bath water and is playing a dangerous game with our footy club. Like it or not the last 7 weeks have proven this too (if not the last few weeks of the NAB cup too). What exactly happens if he doesn't work? It's a high risk game he's playing.

Striker475 I wouldn't discount it for a top ender. Look at Trengrove. Played a mix of Jnr. footy and SANFL. I guess what I'm arguing for is that if it's a toss up between a kid who has and kid who hasn't always take the kid that has experience against big bodies. It's why I'm excited about Jack Viney. I'll take the broken jaw because we saw quality clearances against harder heads. I also see a desire and desperation from the older blokes (20-24 year olds) that get a shot that is part of what we are missing. Magner is a good example.

So true. I think as the competition gets spread thinner by 18 teams struggling clubs need to look for players that have played against bigger bodies. I think Jeremy Howe is a great example. You don't get a 110kg gorilla thrown at you when your dominating in the under 18s but you do when your playing good footy in a senior side. We should be looking at other clubs and the SANFL and WAFL with more intent because we have neither time, or a good development history.

Wattsy cant do anything right. Takes a mark inside 50, hands it off to the best kick on the ground who nails it from 55. Only to get bagged for handing it off by the commentators!

I don't subscribe to the theory that supporters should be die hard and follow through decades of poor performance. The game has become increasingly professional, the club often refers to itself as an organization. If that's the case then supporters are shareholders. People are well within their rights to not buy a membership based on terrible performances to show the club they are tired of this. We need to move to a 10 year plan that is about respect and honesty. Look at the swans. They can't afford to not be competitive because of their supporter base. We need to follow that plan to ensure our longevity. I am a lifetime Demon and have been ever since I saw the 1987 finals series as an 8 year old. I'm not bowing out now but would my passion for the club be as strong if I was a kid now? I doubt it. Why would it be?

Has anybody read 'The Road' by Cormac McCarthy? That's where to. You just keep going because it's what you do, but most of the time you wonder if you'd have been better to just give up years ago.

I said it last week and I'll say it again. Mitch Clark is our only leader. I've never seen a side go missing on mass like we have for quarters this year. Without the big fella we would have no one that puts their hand up. Whatever we are paying him he's worth it because he's carrying half the side.

Always be wary of a 'journalist' that just lists bullet points to fill up half an article. I mean what was the point of that? He clearly has to hit a certain word count. The rest of the article was a bit of revisionist history. I didn't hear anyone defending Bailey's 'slow build' of our defensive capabilities when we were belted last year. And what more does Mitch Clark have to do for Walls to cut him a break? He's kicked more than a quarter of our score in the games he's played, been voted into the leadership group before he played a game, and throws his body around with little regard for his own welfare.

Cale's interview was terrific. He knows exactly where he is and what he needs to do to be successful. I know that we are going through a rough period but it sounds like that sort of understanding about where you're at as a player has clearly been missing from our development, and has now been put in place. It was interesting to hear him talk candidly about his relationship with supporters too. Made me really want to see him succeed.

I think the timing of this can only be a good thing for the club. Moloney has been really average so far this season. If he decides to turn up and play well then he's worth it. If not then he's played his hand too soon and wont get as good a contract from us or anyone else. Either way we'll know how hard we want to fight for him. I hope he fronts up and plays so well we HAVE to keep him. Then we either keep a great player, or can negotiate well for him.

Is this really a comment on a 'supporters' forum? Jack just kicked 4 and played well. He's not paid to look sad and be the barometer for the supporters emotions. Support the boys. It's not only the least you can do, it's the only thing!

A bit of straight kicking in this last quarter and we would have gone down by less than 5 goals. Mitch and Cale real shining lights. Come on Dees. Show some fight!

Mitch is a superstar. Best recruit of the year by a mile.

Cale has been good today.

It's middle tier ball winners that are worrying for us. Moloney and Sylvia need to be doing more. An liking the effort from Mitch and Spud. Showing why they came right back in. Come on Dees. Finish off and get some confidence.

I thought the same thing Hardtack. Mitch might not be tossing the coin but he's playing like a leader. Thank god for him and Jonesy.

I know we aren't playing well, but those 2 free kick goals to Bartel and J-pod are a joke.