Undeeterred

I wasn't the one who brought him up, I was just responding to the discussion of someone else.

I think he's just giving the players cover. Do you really think he believes what he's saying? Or is it just easier to say 'I'd rather play an 80% fit Stretch than a 100% fit Pedersen' (just using the Dogs/extra tall game as an example and making up names - can't remember specifics. But my point is the same. Ie, Port game - better to stick with the players I've got, even if not fit, than bring in Grimes/Newton/ANB whoever. Again, can't remember specific details, just making the point. But he can't admit that!!!

Interesting posts in hindsight....

Don't worry mate, I don't. I've been sitting through the last 10 years as well. My point is that he was given that flexibility by the support structures that, let's face it, the AFL started by bringing in PJ, and PJ then implemented. My personal view is that he's not a particularly amazing coach. BUT, I don't dispute he's been a fantastic person to come in, say 'everyone just chill the F out, we'll sort out this mess', then get on with driving a team of coaches, recruiters and administrators to get it done. You're also right that Clarkson might have taken as long to fix the complete shambles we were. But I reckon Clarkson, for example, might have squeezed out a couple more wins along the way, because he's a better coach. Edit: To be fair, it's also worth noting that Roos was probably the only available person in the football world who has the swingers big enough to stare down the football world while this resurrection has been going on, and keep the wolves from the door while it gathered pace.

I'm one, for the record.

Excellent point.

Sure. And I still say that as a coach, particularly on match day, he's no better than average to good, and certainly not our best ever.

Agreed, but I reckon it's more of a team effort than is generally recognised. It doesn't all come back to Roos. He has a sensational support team in place, now. Remember the heady days where Brian Royal was the midfield coach? Roos definitely does provide the gravitas to allow all that to happen, though.

Clarkson did it at Hawthorn. Beveridge did it. They definitely have runs on the board over anything Roos has done as a coach. What he HAS done, which is unarguable, is draw tons of heat from the media, deflecting it from other parts of the club (including the players). I don't believe for a second that all the guff about 'woops we made a mistake again this week at selection' and the like is anything but drawing attention away from the players, and giving them time to develop without that scrutiny, because the media don't question Roos when he puts that stuff out there.

Northey by streets. For all the good The Reverend did, and no matter how much we love him, we've arguably never recovered from the damage he did towards the end of his tenure. Edit: Not necessarily suggesting that the abysmal club management etc post 2006 was Daniher's fault, but he left a list in tatters and we've not been able to repair it until we nailed top picks in the last 3-4 years.

Not what I said. Read it again.

What they might have been planning, given they really wanted to keep Hogan, was to keep bucketloads of cap room for him to sign up, then work out what's left. Or, they could decide that the risk of losing some of the players they are holding off on is bigger than the risk of not having enough left in the cap to pay Hogan what he demands, should he eventually decide to stay. Not that difficult to comprehend, especially given that earlier in the year they were in discussions with Hogan, and now they're not.

What if they all run around like Harvey until they're 38? Kill me!!

Interesting to see how this might play out with Hogan. I'd have thought they would have waited for him, to see what might be left for Watts, Jetta, Kent, TMac. It feels like they've decided they can't wait for Jesse, and will sign everybody else they can, then see what's left for Jesse. While it's great that we're signing these blokes up, each one that drops reduces our flexibility around Hogan.

My whinge about Hawthorn was very specifically that they get an absolute arm chair ride from the league and from the umpires. My previous complaints, in other threads, have been about how absolutely dirty their celebrated leaders are, such as Hodge and Mitchell. I hope we play hard, winning football, but I don't want it to be at the cost of being known as dirty, sniping pricks.

Correct.

Sadly, given the number of articles appearing which talk about his future being 'clouded', he has been told he definitely won't be, and his manager is testing the market for him.

Michael Jordan used to get a VERY favourable ride from referees. He'd just look at them and they'd call a foul. Sort of like Hawthorn. Everyone loves a winner, including the umpires. But if I have to hear Bruce and BT commentate one more Hawthorn game, I'll spew. I hope some bikie gang kneecaps every single Hawthorn player as they get off the team bus at the airport.

Wade Lees!!

Who would have thought that ditching him was one of the best things we've ever done?

He did get reported, but the TV shot was a funny angle. Live, it looked like he absolutely smashed McDonald-Tipingwuti late, but on replay from another angle he brushed him high with an elbow but practically zero impact. Having said that, Bernie has been rubbed out this year for something similar, so if there was any consistency (LOL) he would probably get a week.

There was absolutely nothing in it. He'll play.

1. It's guaranteed money for three years. Would have thought that's a no brainer. 2. When he signed, he was getting a game.

Yep, keep changing the goal posts. 'Constructive criticism' is revisionism at its best.

He's a free agent anyway, isn't he?