Macca

It is not your point but it is my point. I factor in home town decisions but I don't factor in poor kicking for goal. Unless that happens constantly. Kick straight and we win. And that is something that we control. We blew a golden opportunity to win in the West. By contrast, we didn't blow that opportunity to win over there in round 22 last year.

In practical terms when a team plays the Eagles in WA that team needs to be 5 goals better in order to eliminate the home town bias. They have one of the most influential crowds in world sport but ... the same thing used to happen at Victoria Park, Princes Park and Windy Hill to name just 3 other venues The Yankees get a bigger strike zone at home, Man Utd are famous for getting home stadium decisions and the New England Patriots are favoured at home too. It is a staple of sport. But not for every team. I don't believe that home town bias has ever happened for us and that is largely due to the MCG not being that sort of venue (although supporters of interstate teams might disagree) So we're up against it but again, in practical terms, can you see anything changing? It never changed at Vic Park, Princes Park or Windy Hill. You couldn't buy a free at those venues. I do agree with you about full time umpires but the AFL prefer to sit on their hands. 'Shoudn't happen' is the catch-cry but 'does happen' is the reality. Home town decisions aren't going away in a hurry. Norm Smith had the answer ... bypass all that and just be better than all the other teams. If we were 6 goals up at 3/4 time against the Eagles then this conversation probably wouldn't exist.

I am not a believer in conspiracy theories so I don't believe there is any bias against us by the umpires. Home town crowds can effect officials but that is the same in any sport. Nor do I believe that they are out to get us or hate us in any way. And don't be thinking that others don't share my view ... they do but they're not getting involved. My belief system remains that if we're good enough, we'll win. If not, we won't win. As previously stated, we kicked ourselves out of it on Friday night and there lies the real problem. Can be fixed too with a lot of practice.

I haven't thrown in the towel ... a 20% improvement is possible but that is about all that could be hoped for. So we'd fix 10 decisions out of 50 disputable decisions. That leaves 40 and we're still left with a mess. And I am not talking about the actual frees given alone. Real improvement can be made if we scrapped the interchange, brought it down to 15 a side, got rid of flooding and congestion and fixed a few other areas like kicking backwards and the epidemic of boring short passes. Instead of that every year we make it harder and harder for the umpires. That is the trend and it is not going the other way in a hurry unless the very fabric of the sport is changed in a dramatic way Do you want that? I am guessing no as you've previously stated that you prefer footy the way it is now. Leave it as it is and the problem continues. Band-aid approaches like 666 have no real effect. My views on how to fix the sport goes back to the 90's

NBA is difficult but still not in the same league as the AFL. Certainly not in the current form that it is in (AFL) Half the issue is the congestion. I watched some local footy yesterday and there was almost no congestion so the game was way easier to umpire. So the congestion needs to be fixed - trouble is that most don't have a problem with congestion. They want the game left alone. Many even enjoy the congestion. As for full time umpires, I am all for it. But the game needs to be fixed at the same time. I can't see it though as I have zero faith in the custodians. They are watching the money. The punters have had a problem with the umpires from the day dot. Goes way back. I haven't given up either as some are indicating ... more so accepting things for what they are. You could have 15 a side, no interchange, full time umpires and more clearly defined rules and there would still be a thousand disputes. Too many grey areas in a 360degree sport.

In some games I see 'incorrect disposal' happen up to 30 or 40 times. But the umpires are instructed to not pay it or only pay the blatant infringements. And they don't always get it right. Again, there's a lot going on so a fair bit of leeway needs to be given. So we could see an extra 30 or 40 free kicks paid in any given game and that is just 1 type of incident. Who wants that? And what about the rule where a player is supposed to kick over the mark? Not adhered to and again, not the umpires fault either. They are acting under instruction but we blame the back end of a problem. Let's not forget that things were going our way in the first 3 quarters against the Eagles and we should have taken advantage. We didn't and then got run over. We gave them an opportunity and they took it. That is how I viewed the game. As for the whinging about the umpires, the winning or the losing shouldn't be a factor but it is. There is an outcry in a close loss but barely a murmur otherwise. And every group of supporters acts in the same way.

Even if things were improved by 15 - 20% you'd still see numerous mistakes. I see up to 50 mistakes made in every game ... the numbers are through the roof. But it's the nature of the sport. I came to terms with it all decades ago ... so I'm not like you. Why is that a problem? In the end, the best teams win a large percentage of their games because they are the best teams. We need to become one of those best teams and then the umpiring won't matter to those that it matters to now (in a general sense) Have you not noticed that the moaning about the umpires goes hand in hand with the losing? ... usually the close losses. Win games (or get smashed) and there is barely a murmur. You and I see the sport differently.

Full time umpires would improve things BM but I still believe the actual rules can't be definitive anyway It is just the nature of the sport ... Rugby League by comparison seems a very easy game to adjudicate. Union a bit harder. Soccer - trickier still. But our game is out there on it's own in terms of degree of difficulty in the adjudication of the rules. Reducing the amount of players on the ground would help but then the fabric of the game would be changed. My view is that we're just stuck with it. The best teams win the premierships anyway so build a great list.

Supporters of teams playing each other see the rules differently too ... if any decision goes against their team a certain percentage will scream and holler even if the decision is correct. And the supporters of the recipient of the free kick are not likely to acknowledge a disputed free kick even if it's a lucky free. They'll happily take that as some sort of weird 'payback' So what hope have the umpires got? Either way, they can never get it right even if they do get it right. It's a no-win situation.

If the sport can't ever be umpired correctly, then mistakes are always going to happen. Therefore the umpires aren't to blame. My view is that most have been brainwashed into believing that the sport can be umpired correctly and that the umpires hate us. None of that is true. Every year is the same ... in fact, there has never been a year where the umpires haven't been in the gun. Rinse and repeat. And every year it gets worse (apparently) The examples you gave just highlight my view ... and it's unfixable. Too many players on the ground with rules that can never be defined. And it has always been that way. In frustration, the umpires get blamed.

Every year the same argument rears it's ugly head ... and nothing will ever change. For my explanation, read the above post dpositive.

Not loud ... just different It is drummed into us from a young age that the umpires are there to be hated and that they are out to get us. Nearly everyone around us reinforces that view and then the confirmation bias kicks in. That thinking goes right back to the 19th century too ... it isn't a recent phenomenom. So by the time we reach adulthood we're well and truly hooked in. As a result, any disputable decision against our teams can become an act of cheating (or suchlike) But it is all bs ... the game can't be umpired correctly so therefore numerous errors are going to be made. There is no bias, just bad luck. The umpires don't hate us and there is no plot against our team. But when you factor in the 'want' to win and the bad loser effect, we blame the adjudicators as a matter of course The title name of the thread is a nonsense ... it is laughable and quite frankly, embarrassing. And don't worry, I know my view is in the minority but I am right. And if you truly believe that the umpires are out to get us, you need to offer real proof. Plucking out individual moments just reinforces my view.

Jumping the shark with that appraisal I am not surprised though as just about any adjudication in our sport can be and often is questioned. But instead of just accepting that the sport can't be umpired correctly, assumptions are made that umpires are on the take or they are blatantly cheating. Or games are fixed as you put it. It's just nuts and believe me, my view represents way less than 1% of the overall view. The other 99%+ view is along the lines of what you're saying. I'll get no support nor am I expecting any sort of support ... that's the way things swing around here. Group-think wins out. Tell 'em what they want to hear. I prefer to appraise the actual footy ... more so how our team is travelling. Warts and all. We lost a game we should have won last night and we only have ourselves to blame. And bad kicking for goal has nought to do with umpires.

The Port game last year .. After creating an advantage over the other mob in the first half Port then decided to pressure us with a press in the 2nd half and we couldn't deal with it. We kicked the ball blindly out of the middle, turned the ball over and lost. However, the umpires were blamed by many here ... again, not addressing the absolute shortcomings of the team that day. Oddly enough, when we were absolute pus in 2012/13 there was barely a murmur about the umpires. Lose a close one and it's way different.

The game is impossible to umpire correctly. The umpires probably never know when to blow the whistle You should try your hand at it ... good coin for a part time job too. But get ready for a torrent of abuse ... goes hand in hand. You are never going to be right umpiring our sport (even if you are right) It is an unholy mess to officiate compared to any other sport

Crowds do influence umpires & referees. Another staple of sport. Directives won't work either ... great in theory but in practical terms, null and void. I chatted to 3 or 4 Demon mates today and they all knew in advance that we weren't going to get the rub of the green. It was never expected. The opposite was expected however thus we needed to put them to the sword when we had our chance But we blew it unlike it in round 22 last year when we didn't blow it and we won over there. We took the crowd/umps out of the game in that match and that is how you win against the odds. Before we point the finger we should look in the mirror. And if that is not the message from Goodwin, he's not the man for the job. But he doesn't strike me as an excuse-maker.

Well .. the only way to get into the Eagles situation is to exact the same fortress type home field advantage Realistically, that isn't going to happen so we just have to have a better team. All the rest of it is pointless. Rinse and repeat.

The chaos of umpiring our game means that obvious frees will be missed. It's a thing that can't be explained because of the very nature of the chaos that exists And trying to make sense of chaos is another pointless exercise. The grey areas are extreme ... imagine trying to explain the rules to someone new to the game? And that explanation would be different for every person explaining the rules. None of us are experts. And yet we expect the umpires to get it right when they can't get it right. Insanity. It is just an unholy mess and the game is harder to umpire than it ever was. And I don't feel sorry for umpires either ... it's their choice to do it. They must know the abuse is coming their way far in advance. Why would you do it?

And you say that every season. Why don't you come to terms with it all ... the sport can't be umpired correctly because it just can't be. Mistakes are therefore going to happen and there is no bias against our team.

Neutral umpires undermines officiating in general ... the real issue is that most sports fans are just bad losers and blame umpires/referees as a matter of course And many have umpires on the brain ... these people are insane. Nutjobs. We need to quit moaning and stop making pathetic excuses. The umpires aren't the issue and never have been. They aren't out to get us either ... that is just pure BS. We lost the game last night because of our poor kicking for goal. It was our fault. Home town decisions are always going to happen in any sport ... and that will never change What a pointless thread. You can moan and [censored] all you like but nothing will ever change ... just come to terms with the fact that the sport can't be officiated correctly and that the mistakes made have no bias involved whatsoever. The paranoia is actually quite comical.

Forget the yips ... we choke in front of goal. And like the fumbles & missing easy targets, it becomes an epidemic. The body language says many don't want to take a shot. One player does it and the rest follow suit. It is a technique issue and a confidence issue. We keep losing games because of our poor kicking for goal. Last night mirrored the game against Sydney late last season. We threw away a win. Practice your goalkicking in a simulated way until you're exhausted should be the coaching message.

We've done very well til halftime ... we've put them off their game. Our teamwork has been first rate and we've created that extra option throughout. And there is no reason why we can't go on with it. Just need more of the same.

And that doesn't happen without good reason ... he is our No.1 forward now and whilst he did well in Hogan's absence last year, the other clubs have done their homework on Tom in the off-season. Weideman not coming on means that it is now easier to cut Tom out of the game. Tom is a good no.2 or no.3 but being no.1 brings with it a lot more attention. On top of all that, he is not moving freely at all.

All things are often connected rjay ... foot injuries can upset your balance and confidence so marking can be affected. T-Mac is not moving to his marks in the same way and he often looks proppy. Time probably fixes things. Trengove is a good example - all parts of his game were affected because of that debilitating foot injury. And he was never the same player afterwards. Back injuries are the worst ... a likely end of career injury for the most part. Especially for key forwards. Until T-Mac can move freely again he'll be sub par. I have seen the same thing happen at suburban level a stack of times. I had acute achilles tendonitus in both feet for close on 10 years and I survived on muscle memory alone! And trust me, simple tasks became very difficult. And it is not an excuse either ... it's a reason. We all want him to be back at his best but we're going to have to be patient.

Finding 1 or 2 baseball winners isn't too hard Wadda if the form goes to plan but the 3rd is tricky. You're better off with a mix of sports and the Argentinian & Brazilian leagues continue through our winter ... good standard too with some iconic teams involved. I got a 4 figure multi payout a ways back using the South American leagues. As for the baseball, there are about 8 teams that I look out for ... Dodgers, Yankees, Redsox, Cubs, Houston plus 3 or 4 other teams who might be performing well. Tampa & the Twins are doing well right now.